Risk of Bacterial Meningitis and Death in Children with Cochlear Implants

I think we all might be able to agree that ALL parents (or, at least all parents here) want what is best for their children. The problem we're running into with these discussions about cochlear implants is that for each family, the definition of "best" is different, sometimes vastly different. No one wants to think that the choices they make for their children are the WRONG choices, and so when we have such a controversial topic such as this, where each "side" is convinced that the decisions they've made are THE right decisions... it's going to be impossible NOT to take these differences of opinion personally.
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I would add that some parents made choices which they themselves started to doubt. "did I do the right thing? should I have gotten the implant? shouldn't I have gotten the implant"? etc.
that causes this particular person to be especially aggressive and intolerant against those who happen to have different view. They need to reassure themselves they did right.
And especially when faced with neutral facts which prove undisputable benefits of having CI, and hearing and speaking ability.

I wholeheartedly agree any good, caring parent wants the best for their child. And if the child thrives, then the choice was right.
regardless of what it was.

As for meningitis - there is no medical procedure that wouldn't carry some risks with it. Sometimes it's neccessary to weigh risk aganist benefits. Nobody wants their child to die.
We would never know if the child who died for mening. after surgery wouldn't catch it and die from it anyway sometime later in their life even without having CI surgery, since having "bad ears" predispose to this infection anyway.
Completely healthy people die from meningitis, too.

Fuzzy
 
neecy said:
Actually - to the medical community sometimes the symptoms are so close-linked they make mistakes. I'm a perfect example - when I had bacterial meningitis when I was a child, my family doctor was out of town. The guy I had to see told my Mom that I had the flu and to take me back home. Mom managed to track down our family doctor and called him because my fever kept going up and I started getting delirious. That was an extra 12 hours that I could have been treated/on antibiotics/whatever that was missed. I lapsed into a coma (that lasted 3 weeks) while in the ambulance taking me to the hospital 100 miles away.

So I just wanted to point out - even doctors can mistake the symptoms of meningitis during its onset.
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Wow! I am sorry that happened to you!!!
 
InTheGenes said:
You guys are going in circles with your arguments, and many of you are resorting to petty personal attacks, which really don't serve you or your arguments well at all.

I think we all might be able to agree that ALL parents (or, at least all parents here) want what is best for their children. The problem we're running into with these discussions about cochlear implants is that for each family, the definition of "best" is different, sometimes vastly different. No one wants to think that the choices they make for their children are the WRONG choices, and so when we have such a controversial topic such as this, where each "side" is convinced that the decisions they've made are THE right decisions... it's going to be impossible NOT to take these differences of opinion personally.

For the sake of harmony/unity here on these boards, you guys are going to have to come to SOME kind of acceptance that your adversaries on the other side of this argument are NOT going to change their minds, and are doing what they think is best for their children.

As far as this particular argument about bacterial meningitis goes... some of you see the 0.017% risk as an acceptable risk. Some of you see ONE death as one death too many. I don't think either side is going to convince the other on this. Personally, I see it as similar to plane crashes... we know that there are hundreds or thousands of flights taking place each day. And if there are three crashes in the same week, it's going to receive a lot of media coverage, and a lot of people are going to shy away from air travel as a result. Other people will continue to see the risk as a small one, and continue to travel. Again, it's a personal decision.

As an outsider looking in, I can tell you that it is evident that ALL of you care for your children, and are only concerned with doing what you think is in their best interest. (Or, for those of you adults who've chosen to be implanted yourselves, you've chosen to do what you think is in YOUR best interest.) I think this is going to have to be one of those arguments where there isn't a RIGHT or WRONG final answer... but rather, a right answer for YOU or for your children. And personally, I think we'd do better to just accept whatever those decisions are, and not attempt to demonize those decisions on the other "side" of the argument.
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I agree with u and I try to see it from the other side but I get fired up when I read about children being deprived of language.
 
shel90 said:
I agree with u and I try to see it from the other side but I get fired up when I read about children being deprived of language.
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Actually Shel no one here has stated that they think speech is the only option, no one here believes in depriving a child of communication. Those of us who advocate the implants encourage them because they can bridge the gap between those who hear and those who don't. It is much easier to undertand and learn to speak if you can hear yourself.

It would be nice if some would quit saying that Cloggy is depriving his daughter of language because they no longer rely on sign as much as they once did. I mention him because of the more recent arguments.

Parents of hearing children who use sign with thier babies do so to bridge the gap, to give them the chance to let their needs be known before they have to ablitiy to form the words. So when he says that Lotte is choosing to speak even without her CI on that is a natural progression because just as the normally hearing baby will drop the signs as she becomes able to form them (speak) so to will a child who hears with a CI. There is nothing wrong with this.

When he says Lotte is delayed, I take that to mean that she is lagging behind the average. And remember the average is just that, some will be further ahead, some further behind. I can't remember how much of a delay he said she tests at but relaly if one had no access to sound for the first year or two of life it wouldn't be surprising of tests show there is a delay, just because the child needs to start from the beginning.

As for kids who's parents make the wrong choice? It's going to happen. Hopefully in most cases the change in direction is caught early so not to much communction problems are caused. Life isn't perfect so no one will ever make the right choice 100% of the time.
 
jag said:
Actually Shel no one here has stated that they think speech is the only option, no one here believes in depriving a child of communication. Those of us who advocate the implants encourage them because they can bridge the gap between those who hear and those who don't. It is much easier to undertand and learn to speak if you can hear yourself.

It would be nice if some would quit saying that Cloggy is depriving his daughter of language because they no longer rely on sign as much as they once did. I mention him because of the more recent arguments.

Parents of hearing children who use sign with thier babies do so to bridge the gap, to give them the chance to let their needs be known before they have to ablitiy to form the words. So when he says that Lotte is choosing to speak even without her CI on that is a natural progression because just as the normally hearing baby will drop the signs as she becomes able to form them (speak) so to will a child who hears with a CI. There is nothing wrong with this.

When he says Lotte is delayed, I take that to mean that she is lagging behind the average. And remember the average is just that, some will be further ahead, some further behind. I can't remember how much of a delay he said she tests at but relaly if one had no access to sound for the first year or two of life it wouldn't be surprising of tests show there is a delay, just because the child needs to start from the beginning.

As for kids who's parents make the wrong choice? It's going to happen. Hopefully in most cases the change in direction is caught early so not to much communction problems are caused. Life isn't perfect so no one will ever make the right choice 100% of the time.
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Not having access to sound does not, in and of itself, cause langauge delays.
 
jillio said:
Not having access to sound does not, in and of itself, cause langauge delays.
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Because.........

Let me guess.... there is signlanguage.!! And NOT using sign language THAT causes delays.!! ... just a guess...
 
InTheGenes said:
You guys are going in circles with your arguments, and many of you are resorting to petty personal attacks, which really don't serve you or your arguments well at all.

I think we all might be able to agree that ALL parents (or, at least all parents here) want what is best for their children. The problem we're running into with these discussions about cochlear implants is that for each family, the definition of "best" is different, sometimes vastly different. No one wants to think that the choices they make for their children are the WRONG choices, and so when we have such a controversial topic such as this, where each "side" is convinced that the decisions they've made are THE right decisions... it's going to be impossible NOT to take these differences of opinion personally.

For the sake of harmony/unity here on these boards, you guys are going to have to come to SOME kind of acceptance that your adversaries on the other side of this argument are NOT going to change their minds, and are doing what they think is best for their children.

As far as this particular argument about bacterial meningitis goes... some of you see the 0.017% risk as an acceptable risk. Some of you see ONE death as one death too many. I don't think either side is going to convince the other on this. Personally, I see it as similar to plane crashes... we know that there are hundreds or thousands of flights taking place each day. And if there are three crashes in the same week, it's going to receive a lot of media coverage, and a lot of people are going to shy away from air travel as a result. Other people will continue to see the risk as a small one, and continue to travel. Again, it's a personal decision.

As an outsider looking in, I can tell you that it is evident that ALL of you care for your children, and are only concerned with doing what you think is in their best interest. (Or, for those of you adults who've chosen to be implanted yourselves, you've chosen to do what you think is in YOUR best interest.) I think this is going to have to be one of those arguments where there isn't a RIGHT or WRONG final answer... but rather, a right answer for YOU or for your children. And personally, I think we'd do better to just accept whatever those decisions are, and not attempt to demonize those decisions on the other "side" of the argument.
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:bowdown:

Well said! I love it when someone comes along and posts a thoughtful contribution like this. And you are absolutely correct - there is a wide range of opinions on this subject and at the end of the day, the parent (after hopefully doing extensive research and reading) has to make the choice that feels right for them. You can't please everyone. Your child may not have the same opinions as some adults here on AD when they are adults. Also opinions evolve and change over time. All of us here are always free to change our minds at any time, but a decision is for life.

I do wish there was less bickering because I do feel we can learn from each other.
 
jillio said:
Not having access to sound does not, in and of itself, cause langauge delays.
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Since I said nothing about not having access to sound being the cause 'in and of itself' of language delays you're comment isn't correct. EDIT: let me ...add when replying to the post you're replying to.
 
Cloggy said:
Didn't realise I was doing that..
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No not you Cloggy. It's just a saying. What I mean is don't get me started on how doctors F#%K up all the time. The doctor that treated him for menengitis said that the chances of him contracting it again were about the same as lightning striking twice in the exact same spot. He even said this after reviewing the results of a catscan where he completly missed the CSF leak and malformed choclea. In fact my son was at an extremely high risk of contracting it again from a simple ear infection. Another doctor couldn't believe that the first doctor missed it. Anyway... that's what I mean when I say "don't get me started".. Nothing personal.
 
InTheGenes said:
You guys are going in circles with your arguments, and many of you are resorting to petty personal attacks, which really don't serve you or your arguments well at all.

I think we all might be able to agree that ALL parents (or, at least all parents here) want what is best for their children. The problem we're running into with these discussions about cochlear implants is that for each family, the definition of "best" is different, sometimes vastly different. No one wants to think that the choices they make for their children are the WRONG choices, and so when we have such a controversial topic such as this, where each "side" is convinced that the decisions they've made are THE right decisions... it's going to be impossible NOT to take these differences of opinion personally.

For the sake of harmony/unity here on these boards, you guys are going to have to come to SOME kind of acceptance that your adversaries on the other side of this argument are NOT going to change their minds, and are doing what they think is best for their children.

As far as this particular argument about bacterial meningitis goes... some of you see the 0.017% risk as an acceptable risk. Some of you see ONE death as one death too many. I don't think either side is going to convince the other on this. Personally, I see it as similar to plane crashes... we know that there are hundreds or thousands of flights taking place each day. And if there are three crashes in the same week, it's going to receive a lot of media coverage, and a lot of people are going to shy away from air travel as a result. Other people will continue to see the risk as a small one, and continue to travel. Again, it's a personal decision.

As an outsider looking in, I can tell you that it is evident that ALL of you care for your children, and are only concerned with doing what you think is in their best interest. (Or, for those of you adults who've chosen to be implanted yourselves, you've chosen to do what you think is in YOUR best interest.) I think this is going to have to be one of those arguments where there isn't a RIGHT or WRONG final answer... but rather, a right answer for YOU or for your children. And personally, I think we'd do better to just accept whatever those decisions are, and not attempt to demonize those decisions on the other "side" of the argument.
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to sum it up in three words... Agree to Dis-agree.
 
rockdrummer said:
Actually menengitis can be bacterial (the most dangerous) or viral.

Viral Meningitis Facts
Bacterial Meningitis Facts
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Yep, see my post #89. Meningitis is actually just a swelling and inflamation of the menges, or the tissue covering the brain. It can result from virus or bacteria. However, the risk of viral meningitis is relatively the same inthe whole population, unless one has a compromised immune system, at which pointthey are more susceptible not just to bacterial illnes, but viral illness,as well. However, there is an increased risk for bacterial meningitis, becasue of the opening fromthe middle ear through the mastiod bone that allows for bacteria in the bloodstream to enter the area of the brain.
 
jag said:
Since I said nothing about not having access to sound being the cause 'in and of itself' of language delays you're comment isn't correct. EDIT: let me ...add when replying to the post you're replying to.
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My comment is correct, when taken in context. It is a statemnt that stands alone. Lack of sound is not the cause, in and of itself, of lalngauge delays.
 
Could I add one more thing ? Any implant like hip implant or CI - there is a chance of getting infected.

"Infections due to contamination during surgery are infrequent, Hickok notes. However, bacteria can spread to the implants later from other infections anywhere in the body, causing significant pain.
When infection occurs, physicians replace the implant and administer an aggressive round of antibiotics. The procedure can cost tens of thousands of dollars."
Medical Implants May Soon Be Infection-Resistant
 
jillio said:
My comment is correct, when taken in context. It is a statemnt that stands alone. Lack of sound is not the cause, in and of itself, of lalngauge delays.
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ANd quite frankly since I said NOTHING about lack of sound being a cause in and of itself of language delays in my post I really don't see much reason for your response to me except that you have this strange urge to always get in the last remark. Oh well to each their own.
 
Buffalo said:
Could I add one more thing ? Any implant like hip implant or CI - there is a chance of getting infected.

"Infections due to contamination during surgery are infrequent, Hickok notes. However, bacteria can spread to the implants later from other infections anywhere in the body, causing significant pain.
When infection occurs, physicians replace the implant and administer an aggressive round of antibiotics. The procedure can cost tens of thousands of dollars."
Medical Implants May Soon Be Infection-Resistant
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interesting developements. I do wonder tho if they will be able to use different antibiotics in the implants since some people are allergic to some. This will be interesting to follow in years to come tho.
 
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