Peer Relationships of Children With Cochlear Implants

[shel90]

I got the book Buffalo brought up "Alone in the Mainstream"..I couldn't put it down last night...very powerful stuff and almost everything I have said in the past 2 years ranging from language delays, isolation among hearing peers, bullying, teachers not knowing how to meet deaf children's needs, the laws especially how LRE, lack of access to communication and language in the educational setting are all addressed in the book.

Rockdrummer...about bullying..I was amazed that the author practically said the exact same thing I said about being bullied by hearing peers yesterday in the other thread. Here is it...

"It is true that the school years, especially middle and high school, are fraught with possibilities for difficulities, failure, and personality conflicts with a teacher or classmates. However, hearing students, even those who have social difficulties, at least have the benefit of knowing what those around them are saying. They have a much greater chance of knowing where they stand, who their friends are, and which adults can be counter on for support or assisstance. It is important to keep in mind that deaf and hard of hearing children are not privey to the fairly constant conversation going on around them. They are only privy to comments directed exclusaively at them and thus have a more difficult time dealing with problems. Consequently, they are at a greater disadvantage when negative intereactions occur."
Gina a. Oliva, 2004

That right there is very powerful and means a lot to me cuz that is what I have been trying to tell u all for 2 years.

If anyone really truly wants to understand why many deaf adults want all deaf children to have the best of both worlds and don't support singular mainstreaming, I strongly recommend getting this book . I can't put it down.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Jackie,

WECLOME BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Your posts are sights for sore eyes!

Rick

Just been just a busy summer. We drove across the country and back, my school has just gone a track system so I have been back to work for a month now. Good to be back too.

 

[rick48]

BUT no matter how much the parent researches or explores or how many doctors, if the decision goes against someone else beliefs then it is deemed wrong. It is very difficult for others to understand what steps a parent takes to make the choice of cochlear implants. There are so many steps involve in this process.

Vallee,

You are so right, for us the decision to implant our child was one that evolved and progressed over months and with questions all along the way. I cannot in one or even multiple posts adequately explain the time, effort, angst, and emotion involved in making that decision of such complexity and enormity (is that a word?) for our child.
Rick

 

[rockdrummer]

I got the book Buffalo brought up "Alone in the Mainstream"..I couldn't put it down last night...very powerful stuff and almost everything I have said in the past 2 years ranging from language delays, isolation among hearing peers, bullying, teachers not knowing how to meet deaf children's needs, the laws especially how LRE, lack of access to communication and language in the educational setting are all addressed in the book.

Rockdrummer...about bullying..I was amazed that the author practically said the exact same thing I said about being bullied by hearing peers yesterday in the other thread. Here is it...

"It is true that the school years, especially middle and high school, are fraught with possibilities for difficulities, failure, and personality conflicts with a teacher or classmates. However, hearing students, even those who have social difficulties, at least have the benefit of knowing what those around them are saying. They have a much greater chance of knowing where they stand, who their friends are, and which adults can be counter on for support or assisstance. It is important to keep in mind that deaf and hard of hearing children are not privey to the fairly constant conversation going on around them. They are only privy to comments directed exclusaively at them and thus have a more difficult time dealing with problems. Consequently, they are at a greater disadvantage when negative intereactions occur."
Gina a. Oliva, 2004

That right there is very powerful and means a lot to me cuz that is what I have been trying to tell u all for 2 years.

If anyone really truly wants to understand why many deaf adults want all deaf children to have the best of both worlds and don't support singular mainstreaming, I strongly recommend getting this book . I can't put it down.

Shel, the fact that deaf kids can't hear what's going on around them is obvious and yes it obviously handicaps them.. (or should I say puts them at a disadvantage. Nobody can argue that. That happens not only in bullying scenarios but plays out in other situations as well. The only point I wanted to make on bully's are that they are everywhere and affect everyone. Not just deaf kids. But you validate another reason why parents may want to go the CI route. Because if it is successful then that handicap or disadvantage might just be removed.

The other point I would make is that not all mainstream programs put a deaf child in with mainstream classes. At my sons' school they are only mainstreamed for a couple of classes with the rest of the day being with the other deaf kids in special needs classes. In fact, I have not heard of a program in my area where they will put a deaf kid in with mainstream kids for all classes all day. Based on the title, that sounds like what the book "alone in mainstream" is talking about. I would also be curious as to the publish date on that book. While there have been terrible practices in teaching deaf kids throughout history, I also believe that we have evolved and with the new programs things might not be as bad anymore. I know that my son socializes with his deaf peers and also has hearing friends. He always seems happy and content in his surroundings. There is obviouis frustration when communication is difficult but that is something he needs to get use to because it will continue throughout his entire life. If he was able to gain benefit from the CI then that would not be the case.

 

[vallee]

Vallee, every child is so unique. Even when you have siblings being raised in the same way with the same type of hearing loss, they each need something different.

So right! Also it is great to see you back, your post have been missed.

What is the most common language delay for the children you work with?

My students are not deaf and the majority in my classroom are language impaired and learned disabled. I work with articulation and processing. My students with language delay also have a delayed time to process the information. If given appropriate wait time then they can process the information.

 

[shel90]

Shel, the fact that deaf kids can't hear what's going on around them is obvious and yes it obviously handicaps them.. (or should I say puts them at a disadvantage. Nobody can argue that. That happens not only in bullying scenarios but plays out in other situations as well. The only point I wanted to make on bully's are that they are everywhere and affect everyone. Not just deaf kids. But you validate another reason why parents may want to go the CI route. Because if it is successful then that handicap or disadvantage might just be removed.

The other point I would make is that not all mainstream programs put a deaf child in with mainstream classes. At my sons' school they are only mainstreamed for a couple of classes with the rest of the day being with the other deaf kids in special needs classes. In fact, I have not heard of a program in my area where they will put a deaf kid in with mainstream kids for all classes all day. Based on the title, that sounds like what the book "alone in mainstream" is talking about. I would also be curious as to the publish date on that book. While there have been terrible practices in teaching deaf kids throughout history, I also believe that we have evolved and with the new programs things might not be as bad anymore. I know that my son socializes with his deaf peers and also has hearing friends. He always seems happy and content in his surroundings. There is obviouis frustration when communication is difficult but that is something he needs to get use to because it will continue throughout his entire life. If he was able to gain benefit from the CI then that would not be the case.

If the CI is successful, then why are many children with CIs are being referred to our program after falling behind in the mainstreaming programs? U dont have to answer but CIs are still not the answer to everything. The kids are still deaf and they still have deaf-related needs that still need to be met.

Your son's program sounds like the kind of mainstreaming program that I support because he can interact with other deaf kids. However, my question is do the mainstreaming teachers know how to meet his needs and does he and the other deaf kids really socialize with hearing kids without the other deaf kids or an interpreter around?

I was mainstreamed with only hearing peers all day. There were no other deaf kids at my elementary school. This book describes exactly what I went thru and I have met so many other deaf people in the Deaf community who had been placed in that kind of mainstreaming program too.

I know that deaf children need to know how to deal with communication barriers with hearing kids/adults. My whole focus is in the classroom where learning takes place. Should kids face communication/language/information obstacles constantly in the classroom? In my opinion, absulotely not because that is where they should have rights to full access to everything not just partial.

What happens outside of the classroom whether it is at home, in the neighborhood, and community...that's another issue.

If I am being stupid or wishing for the impossible, oh well.

 

[shel90]

And to clarify, those kids with language delays that I spoke of have no other cognitive or processing disabilities..they are bright kids who have been placed in an educational environment where language and communication wasnt fully accessible to them so as a result, their language development was made nearly impossible so when they entered school, it was discovered that they werent ready to read and write because they didnt have a strong language foundation. When they came to our program and learned ASL, they blossomed but even with ASL, their delays from their early years from not being exposed to a visual language, still hurt them regarding to literacy development. By having the idea that "There is always ASL later if all fails" doesnt not work at all. Their ASL and English are usually very weak because their congnitive processing during their early years didnt develop to the fullest.

Kids with language delays cuz of mental retardation or other cognitive disabilities are not those I speak of.

 

[vallee]

Kids with language delays cuz of mental retardation or other cognitive disabilities are not those I speak of.

the majority of children with language delays have nothing to do with mr. Most children are just that language impaired. They have short term memory processing, or just processing concerns. Many speech and language delays have nothing to do with other disabilities.

 

[jillio]

I got the book Buffalo brought up "Alone in the Mainstream"..I couldn't put it down last night...very powerful stuff and almost everything I have said in the past 2 years ranging from language delays, isolation among hearing peers, bullying, teachers not knowing how to meet deaf children's needs, the laws especially how LRE, lack of access to communication and language in the educational setting are all addressed in the book.

Rockdrummer...about bullying..I was amazed that the author practically said the exact same thing I said about being bullied by hearing peers yesterday in the other thread. Here is it...

"It is true that the school years, especially middle and high school, are fraught with possibilities for difficulities, failure, and personality conflicts with a teacher or classmates. However, hearing students, even those who have social difficulties, at least have the benefit of knowing what those around them are saying. They have a much greater chance of knowing where they stand, who their friends are, and which adults can be counter on for support or assisstance. It is important to keep in mind that deaf and hard of hearing children are not privey to the fairly constant conversation going on around them. They are only privy to comments directed exclusaively at them and thus have a more difficult time dealing with problems. Consequently, they are at a greater disadvantage when negative intereactions occur."
Gina a. Oliva, 2004

That right there is very powerful and means a lot to me cuz that is what I have been trying to tell u all for 2 years.

If anyone really truly wants to understand why many deaf adults want all deaf children to have the best of both worlds and don't support singular mainstreaming, I strongly recommend getting this book . I can't put it down.

It truly is a shame that so much information is available to assist, not just parents, but educators and professionals, as well; and still pople refuse to take advantage of it. We have the information we need to give these children an optimal chance, and still people refuse to adcknowledge what is right there. They seem to prefer to move backwards instead of forwards. And it is the kids that have to pay the consequences.

 

[jillio]

So right! Also it is great to see you back, your post have been missed.

What is the most common language delay for the children you work with?

My students are not deaf and the majority in my classroom are language impaired and learned disabled. I work with articulation and processing. My students with language delay also have a delayed time to process the information. If given appropriate wait time then they can process the information.

You cannot compare LD children with deaf children. The issues are totally different.

 

[jillio]

Shel, the fact that deaf kids can't hear what's going on around them is obvious and yes it obviously handicaps them.. (or should I say puts them at a disadvantage. Nobody can argue that. That happens not only in bullying scenarios but plays out in other situations as well. The only point I wanted to make on bully's are that they are everywhere and affect everyone. Not just deaf kids. But you validate another reason why parents may want to go the CI route. Because if it is successful then that handicap or disadvantage might just be removed.

The other point I would make is that not all mainstream programs put a deaf child in with mainstream classes. At my sons' school they are only mainstreamed for a couple of classes with the rest of the day being with the other deaf kids in special needs classes. In fact, I have not heard of a program in my area where they will put a deaf kid in with mainstream kids for all classes all day. Based on the title, that sounds like what the book "alone in mainstream" is talking about. I would also be curious as to the publish date on that book. While there have been terrible practices in teaching deaf kids throughout history, I also believe that we have evolved and with the new programs things might not be as bad anymore. I know that my son socializes with his deaf peers and also has hearing friends. He always seems happy and content in his surroundings. There is obviouis frustration when communication is difficult but that is something he needs to get use to because it will continue throughout his entire life. If he was able to gain benefit from the CI then that would not be the case.

Those systems are known as self contained classrooms. While better than inclusion in most cases, the child's experience is till quite different socially and psychologically than the hearing child's experience.

 

[jillio]

And to clarify, those kids with language delays that I spoke of have no other cognitive or processing disabilities..they are bright kids who have been placed in an educational environment where language and communication wasnt fully accessible to them so as a result, their language development was made nearly impossible so when they entered school, it was discovered that they werent ready to read and write because they didnt have a strong language foundation. When they came to our program and learned ASL, they blossomed but even with ASL, their delays from their early years from not being exposed to a visual language, still hurt them regarding to literacy development. By having the idea that "There is always ASL later if all fails" doesnt not work at all. Their ASL and English are usually very weak because their congnitive processing during their early years didnt develop to the fullest.

Kids with language delays cuz of mental retardation or other cognitive disabilities are not those I speak of.

And their language delays cannot be compared to the deaf child's language delay. A child with cognitive deficits or learning disorders has a biological cause for their delays. A deaf child's language delay is created socially, through linquistic environment.

 

[jillio]

by the time CI children get to your classroom they are delayed. It is a horrible fact. You seem to just hear the failures, while I hear in my school system some successful mainstream cases.

I have taught and been in the building with many HOH students. The ones I am in contact with are functioning within grade level in reading and orally. My friend is the TOD in our system and her students are doing very well in a partial or full inclusion. Many keep using a Bi-bi approach others go the oral only route. Another friend is involve in AVT. Her form of teaching also provides successful cases. Each child is unique and it is not one size fits all.

And they are delayed by the time they get to shel because of their linquistic environment. It is a delay that is totally preventable.

 

[shel90]

And they are delayed by the time they get to shel because of their linquistic environment. It is a delay that is totally preventable.

And for me, that is totally unacceptable cuz they never had a fair chance at the beginning which is why I believe all deaf children shud be exposed to both in the educational setting instead of one or the other.

 

[jillio]

And for me, that is totally unacceptable cuz they never had a fair chance at the beginning which is why I believe all deaf children shud be exposed to both in the educational setting instead of one or the other.

Exactly. They were prevented from having a chance to develop their language skills to the optimal level by their environment. The delays could have been prevented from the start, given the proper linquistic environment. It isn't that a deaf child can't develop language skills on the same schedule of development that hearing children do. It's that they are being kept from doing so.

And the same can be said for the social skill lags that prevent positive and complete interaction with hearing peers in a mainstream setting. There is nothing about deafness that automatically creates these social delays. They are the result of environment and language.

 

[deafdyke]

and the majority in my classroom are language impaired and learned disabled.

That's true, but syndromes that cause both language delays and LDs tend to be pretty rare overall.
shel90,
I totally agree 100% with you. I disagree STRONGLY with mainstreaming to the max. It's OK when kids are really high caliber academic and don't NEED Deaf related support services. However the attidue is that if a kid doesn't clearly need
jackie and rick, Yes we understand that you equate ASL and Deaf education with a poor education.....however there ARE kids at Deaf Schools who are well educated. The reason why there is such a low level of achievement is because Deaf Schools and ASL have been pretty much a last resort dumping ground for oral failures. If you had asked to speak to kids who had been in the program for awhile, I am sure that you would have seen a LOT better achievement!

 

[shel90]

That's true, but syndromes that cause both language delays and LDs tend to be pretty rare overall.
shel90,
I totally agree 100% with you. I disagree STRONGLY with mainstreaming to the max. It's OK when kids are really high caliber academic and don't NEED Deaf related support services. However the attidue is that if a kid doesn't clearly need
jackie and rick, Yes we understand that you equate ASL and Deaf education with a poor education.....however there ARE kids at Deaf Schools who are well educated. The reason why there is such a low level of achievement is because Deaf Schools and ASL have been pretty much a last resort dumping ground for oral failures. If you had asked to speak to kids who had been in the program for awhile, I am sure that you would have seen a LOT better achievement!

It seems to me that as long there are some successful mainstreamers, it is ok that other were failed by these programs. I, andother teacher at the Deaf schools, have to work probably twice as hard to do all the remedial work but we don't get praise cuz usually those kids r performing few years below their age appropriate levels SO we get the blunt of the criticism and blame. One of these days, iam gonna quit the deaf ed field due to this BS because all the criticism and finger_pointing takes a toll on us teachers at the Deaf schools. AND NO, iam not speaking of just ADers only so don't start jumping on me about it pls.

 

[web730]

Exactly. They were prevented from having a chance to develop their language skills to the optimal level by their environment. The delays could have been prevented from the start, given the proper linquistic environment. It isn't that a deaf child can't develop language skills on the same schedule of development that hearing children do. It's that they are being kept from doing so.

And the same can be said for the social skill lags that prevent positive and complete interaction with hearing peers in a mainstream setting. There is nothing about deafness that automatically creates these social delays. They are the result of environment and language.

and glad that you're back, jillio!

 

[shel90]

That's true, but syndromes that cause both language delays and LDs tend to be pretty rare overall.
shel90,
I totally agree 100% with you. I disagree STRONGLY with mainstreaming to the max. It's OK when kids are really high caliber academic and don't NEED Deaf related support services. However the attidue is that if a kid doesn't clearly need
jackie and rick, Yes we understand that you equate ASL and Deaf education with a poor education.....however there ARE kids at Deaf Schools who are well educated. The reason why there is such a low level of achievement is because Deaf Schools and ASL have been pretty much a last resort dumping ground for oral failures. If you had asked to speak to kids who had been in the program for awhile, I am sure that you would have seen a LOT better achievement!

So true...

My brother brought his date over last night. Was my first time meeting her. She was born and raised in CA attending CSDR...she is highly educated being fluent in 4 languages...French, Spanish, English and ASL...I asked her where did she learn all these languages and she said from CSDR's International program. So much for a low education? I also asked her about the dorms since she lived in the dorms if there were any sex abuse. She graduated in 96 and she was like "What?!" when I told her that some people outside of CSDR are saying that there are sex abuse problems there. She laughed and was like "Are u joking me?" Interesting...

BTW, she is attending Univerity of Colorado so like I said before, the kids who perform lower are those who have been language delayed in their early years hence were "dumped" at the deaf schools after falling behind in the public schools.

 

[Tousi]

So true...

My brother brought his date over last night. Was my first time meeting her. She was born and raised in CA attending CSDR...she is highly educated being fluent in 4 languages...French, Spanish, English and ASL...I asked her where did she learn all these languages and she said from CSDR's International program. So much for a low education? I also asked her about the dorms since she lived in the dorms if there were any sex abuse. She graduated in 96 and she was like "What?!" when I told her that some people outside of CSDR are saying that there are sex abuse problems there. She laughed and was like "Are u joking me?" Interesting...

BTW, she is attending Univerity of Colorado so like I said before, the kids who perform lower are those who have been language delayed in their early years hence were "dumped" at the deaf schools after falling behind in the public schools.

Shel, with respect to the commentary on the sex abuses at CSDR, I believe I mentioned a long time ago here or in a PM to you that the allegation is/was wayyyyy overblown. Having worked there for 35 years, I will concede that there were five or less isolated instances of this kind of behavior and they were dealt with quickly. There was no instance where something like that kind of behavior went on for a long time. So I'm glad you met this gal....