Peer Relationships of Children With Cochlear Implants

[shel90]

I can tell you that anyway. I feel a need to state my accomplishments because I am constantly battleing stereotypes for being a member of all of the minority groups of which I identify with.

How would you like me to respond to your post? Good for you! I'm glad! I know a lot of parents who have not given that choice.

As for treating people with dignity and respect, I am not even sure I want to get into that with you. Only you can be the change you wish to see in the world and I suppose it could be an evil cycle. You treat me poorly, then I will treat you poorly, and so on and so forth.

I suppose I sometimes get wrapped up in my activism mode.

Maybe that is why I am so stubborn cuz I feel the same way too as u do in the bolded statement. U arent the only one.

 

[shel90]

Hahahaha Shel!

When I asked my access advisor at U of T if there were other deaf students she said no, upon further questioning I found out there were a handful of students with CI's but they didn't count as being deaf apperently. Perhaps she thought I meant Deaf not deaf? Regardless I am the only undergrad at U of T that uses ASL to communicate...off topic though...kinda

CI children are not deaf? Oh boy...the hearing world has so many misconceptions about us, dont they? I dont know if your advisor would know the difference between Deaf/deaf so u are probably right on the spot about them not counting as being deaf.

 

[JennyB]

Maybe that is why I am so stubborn cuz I feel the same way too as u do in the bolded statement. U arent the only one.

I think it is true of all minority groups! The only people who are spared from the wrath of marginalization are the middle aged, caucasion, christian, heterosexual, able bodied, men.

 

[shel90]

I think it is true of all minority groups! The only people who are spared from the wrath of marginalization are the middle aged, caucasion, christian, heterosexual, able bodied, men.

That's probably why I never married one..both of my husbands are from minority groups (my ex being born in Mexico and my current being black). I probably cant relate to them and relate more with hearing people from minority groups.

 

[rockdrummer]

If the CI is successful, then why are many children with CIs are being referred to our program after falling behind in the mainstreaming programs? U dont have to answer but CIs are still not the answer to everything. The kids are still deaf and they still have deaf-related needs that still need to be met.

I never said that CI's are successful for all kids. I know they are not. Obviously you would not see those children that are successful with CI's And I never said they are the answer to everything. I was commenting on your point about the disadvantage deaf kids are at when being bullied and not hearing what is going on around them. My response to that point was that the disadvantage may be removed for kids that have success with their CI's and that may be another reason parents my elect to go that route. To me it would be near the bottom of the list of priorities but could still be an advantage. That in no ways suggests bullies wont bother them but only to say the disadvantage of not hearing what is going on around them may be removed if they gain benefit from a CI. And Shel, yes you see a lot of failures but that is because it sounds like your system is where they are sending these kids. That doesn't mean all CI's are failures. Quite the contrary, there are many success stories as well.

Your son's program sounds like the kind of mainstreaming program that I support because he can interact with other deaf kids. However, my question is do the mainstreaming teachers know how to meet his needs and does he and the other deaf kids really socialize with hearing kids without the other deaf kids or an interpreter around?

I don't know if the mainstream teachers themselves are meeting or are expected to meet the communication needs which is why I believe they supply an interpreter. As to the second part of your question put yourself in the shoes of a hearing kid that has no signing skills and a deaf kid walks up to him and starts signing. Or flip the coin and you are a deaf kid with no oral or speachreading skills and a hearing kid starts talking to you. No terp around. How do you imagine that would go?

 

[rockdrummer]

And they are delayed by the time they get to shel because of their linquistic environment. It is a delay that is totally preventable.

I'm not sure I understand this. The linguistic environment can be and is many things especially with all of the various programs that are available. What in your opinion would be the ideal linguistic environment?

 

[rockdrummer]

And children with cochlear implants are still deaf children.

I didn't see in this thread where she said they weren't. please point it out if I have missed it.

 

[rockdrummer]

BUT no matter how much the parent researches or explores or how many doctors, if the decision goes against someone else beliefs then it is deemed wrong. It is very difficult for others to understand what steps a parent takes to make the choice of cochlear implants. There are so many steps involve in this process.

Exactly. It's what motivated me to create the thread about why adults choose CI's for their children.
http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids...859-why-adults-choose-cis-their-children.html There are many on this board that say it's up to the child to decide and what they are missing is that the parent decides no matter what. If they go with a CI they have decided for their child. If they don't go with a CI they have decided for their child.

 

[shel90]

I never said that CI's are successful for all kids. I know they are not. Obviously you would not see those children that are successful with CI's And I never said they are the answer to everything. I was commenting on your point about the disadvantage deaf kids are at when being bullied and not hearing what is going on around them. My response to that point was that the disadvantage may be removed for kids that have success with their CI's and that may be another reason parents my elect to go that route. To me it would be near the bottom of the list of priorities but could still be an advantage. That in no ways suggests bullies wont bother them but only to say the disadvantage of not hearing what is going on around them may be removed if they gain benefit from a CI. And Shel, yes you see a lot of failures but that is because it sounds like your system is where they are sending these kids. That doesn't mean all CI's are failures. Quite the contrary, there are many success stories as well.

I don't know if the mainstream teachers themselves are meeting or are expected to meet the communication needs which is why I believe they supply an interpreter. As to the second part of your question put yourself in the shoes of a hearing kid that has no signing skills and a deaf kid walks up to him and starts signing. Or flip the coin and you are a deaf kid with no oral or speachreading skills and a hearing kid starts talking to you. No terp around. How do you imagine that would go?

My brother has no speech skills and he has managed just fine with hearing people who do not know sign language. It is all about having the knowledge, confidence, and adaptive skills. He learned that at his deaf school. He drove alone from Arizona to MD and met many hearing people during his road trip.

Really, I think many of u do not really know much about the Deaf community. It seeems liek there is just too much focus on speech skills.

BTW..I have seen successful children with CIs..actually one of my students is one of them. She can easily switch from ASL to spoken English without any problems. Pls do not make any assumptions on what I see or dont see. Thanks.

I have seen everything in my years of working in Deaf Ed, except for CS. All of what I have seen is why I believe so strongly in the BiBi approach for all deaf children.

 

[jillio]

I would also like to add that I start at University of Toronto tomorrow!

Congratulations to you, JennyB. I wish you all the success in the world.

 

[jillio]

Hahahaha Shel!

When I asked my access advisor at U of T if there were other deaf students she said no, upon further questioning I found out there were a handful of students with CI's but they didn't count as being deaf apperently. Perhaps she thought I meant Deaf not deaf? Regardless I am the only undergrad at U of T that uses ASL to communicate...off topic though...kinda

Not off topic at all. Your experience as a deaf person is very relevent to the topic. In fact, your experience as a deaf person is more relevent than the opinion of those who are not.

And given that you are the only student to use ASL at U of T, you will no doubt be more successful than those who don't have the advantage of a full tool box.

 

[jillio]

I can tell you that anyway. I feel a need to state my accomplishments because I am constantly battleing stereotypes for being a member of all of the minority groups of which I identify with.

How would you like me to respond to your post? Good for you! I'm glad! I know a lot of parents who have not given that choice.

As for treating people with dignity and respect, I am not even sure I want to get into that with you. Only you can be the change you wish to see in the world and I suppose it could be an evil cycle. You treat me poorly, then I will treat you poorly, and so on and so forth.

I suppose I sometimes get wrapped up in my activism mode.[/QUOTE]

Nothing wrong with that. It takes a great deal of activism to combat the stereotypes and mistaken ideas that have such a negative impact on both the education and the psycho-social development of deaf children. Stand firm.

 

[jillio]

Maybe that is why I am so stubborn cuz I feel the same way too as u do in the bolded statement. U arent the only one.

Funny that the ones who are deaf and who are activists for their rights and the rights of deaf children are labeled as rude. While those who propose to continue in the same old policies that create disability for our deaf children consider themselves to be civil.

 

[jillio]

I'm not sure I understand this. The linguistic environment can be and is many things especially with all of the various programs that are available. What in your opinion would be the ideal linguistic environment?

Offering visual forms of communication, i.e. sign as soon as a child is diagnosed. Better yet, as soon as it is suspected that there is a hearing loss.

 

[jillio]

My brother has no speech skills and he has managed just fine with hearing people who do not know sign language. It is all about having the knowledge, confidence, and adaptive skills. He learned that at his deaf school. He drove alone from Arizona to MD and met many hearing people during his road trip.

Really, I think many of u do not really know much about the Deaf community. It seeems liek there is just too much focus on speech skills.

BTW..I have seen successful children with CIs..actually one of my students is one of them. She can easily switch from ASL to spoken English without any problems. Pls do not make any assumptions on what I see or dont see. Thanks.

I have seen everything in my years of working in Deaf Ed, except for CS. All of what I have seen is why I believe so strongly in the BiBi approach for all deaf children.

Exactly. The deaf are the ones that are capable of teaching those adaptive skills to deaf children. Even with speech skills, the deaf child will still need to have many,many adaptive skills in their toolbox to fully communicate with the hearing population. Communication is impaired when children are not taught these skills because the parent and the hearing professional doesn't even know they exist. Remember the sarcasm and put downs when I mentioned the use of a hacky sack ball to let a deaf person know who is speaking in a group meeting or a class room. It is a very effective, noninvasive, and low cost skill that faccilates communication in a very real way for the deaf person. And, yet, there was a member who poo-pooed such a technique simply because it did not involve surgery, and it allowed the deaf person to use their strengths.

We have all the technology and adaptive skills necessary to allow a non-speaking person to exist successfully in the hearing environment. Most are quite simple solutions, but extemely effective solutions, none the less. The problem a certain few appear to have with these solutions is that they are non-invasive, and allow the deaf person to be deaf, rather than attepting to surgically alter, or to force them into the mold of a hearing person.

The research is there to support the fact that the deaf child suffers psycho-socially in a mainstream environment, and that psycho-social difficulties translate to educational difficulties. We have the anecdotal evidence to support it. Yet, despite all of the evidenced, there are those that continue to ignore it, rather than work to change it.

 

[jillio]

You know, a thought just crossed my mind as I was reading another thread. More and more deaf students are being mainstreamed. More and more deaf individuals are becoming a part of the hearing workforce. In short, deaf people are visable to the hearing in a way they have never before been in history. They are integrating into hearing culture in ever increasing numbers.

It would appear to me remediating a communication problem is as incumbent upon the hearing as it is on the deaf. Not only does a deaf signer have to use another method to communicate with a deaf individual, the hearing person is just as impaired when trying to use their standard form of communication. A terp, for instance, doesn't just terp for the deaf person, they terp for the hearing person who doesn't understand sign. Accommodation does not just provide for the deaf person, it provides for the hearing person, as well.

So why is it that the hearing seem to think that it is inumbent upon the deaf to facilitate communication? Why is the responsibility always on the deaf individual? The hearing need to be just as responsible for making themselves understood in this situation as do the deaf. If the hearing were as willing as the deaf to do whatever was necessary to insure that communication happened, perhaps our deaf kids would fare much better in the mainstream, and would not experience the psycho-social problems created by the isolation of always being the one to make the adjustment.

 

[shel90]

You know, a thought just crossed my mind as I was reading another thread. More and more deaf students are being mainstreamed. More and more deaf individuals are becoming a part of the hearing workforce. In short, deaf people are visable to the hearing in a way they have never before been in history. They are integrating into hearing culture in ever increasing numbers.

It would appear to me remediating a communication problem is as incumbent upon the hearing as it is on the deaf. Not only does a deaf signer have to use another method to communicate with a deaf individual, the hearing person is just as impaired when trying to use their standard form of communication. A terp, for instance, doesn't just terp for the deaf person, they terp for the hearing person who doesn't understand sign. Accommodation does not just provide for the deaf person, it provides for the hearing person, as well.

So why is it that the hearing seem to think that it is inumbent upon the deaf to facilitate communication? Why is the responsibility always on the deaf individual? The hearing need to be just as responsible for making themselves understood in this situation as do the deaf. If the hearing were as willing as the deaf to do whatever was necessary to insure that communication happened, perhaps our deaf kids would fare much better in the mainstream, and would not experience the psycho-social problems created by the isolation of always being the one to make the adjustment.

Most deaf people I know r willing to meet halfway...all we r asking of the hearing people to meet halfway also butit looks like we r shit out of luck anyway. :roll:

 

[jillio]

Most deaf people I know r willing to meet halfway...all we r asking of the hearing people to meet halfway also butit looks like we r shit out of luck anyway. :roll:

Exactly. The hearing want to make no effort, even though they are just as impaired as the deaf when it comes to communication between the two. Rather hypocritical, isn't it?

 

[rockdrummer]

And Shel, yes you see a lot of failures but that is because it sounds like your system is where they are sending these kids. That doesn't mean all CI's are failures. Quite the contrary, there are many success stories as well.

BTW..I have seen successful children with CIs..actually one of my students is one of them. She can easily switch from ASL to spoken English without any problems. Pls do not make any assumptions on what I see or dont see. Thanks.

I am not making assumptions. It's what you yoursef have been saying all along. My comment above is based on your numerous posts on the topic. No assumptions made.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

.....and does he and the other deaf kids really socialize with hearing kids without the other deaf kids or an interpreter around?

As to the second part of your question put yourself in the shoes of a hearing kid that has no signing skills and a deaf kid walks up to him and starts signing. Or flip the coin and you are a deaf kid with no oral or speachreading skills and a hearing kid starts talking to you. No terp around. How do you imagine that would go?

My brother has no speech skills and he has managed just fine with hearing people who do not know sign language. It is all about having the knowledge, confidence, and adaptive skills. He learned that at his deaf school. He drove alone from Arizona to MD and met many hearing people during his road trip.

While I am happy that your brother was able to get along your anticdote doesnt address the question. Did he use pencil and paper, Sidekicks??? How was he able to communicate?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really, I think many of u do not really know much about the Deaf community. It seeems liek there is just too much focus on speech skills.

Where have I ever focused "too much" on oral skills. You yourself said.

I agree that oral skills should be a part of a full-toolbox too.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no doubt in my mind that you are a good teacher. Sometimes though it's tough to hold a conversation with you on this board. It appears that you don't address questions that would have an answer that doesn't support your position and you inject comments that have nothing to do with what I have said when you are responding directly to my posts. While I appreciate your knowledge and I do take much of it in consideration, it does get tiresome sometimes with all of the talking in circles.

 

[rockdrummer]

You know, a thought just crossed my mind as I was reading another thread. More and more deaf students are being mainstreamed. More and more deaf individuals are becoming a part of the hearing workforce. In short, deaf people are visable to the hearing in a way they have never before been in history. They are integrating into hearing culture in ever increasing numbers.

It would appear to me remediating a communication problem is as incumbent upon the hearing as it is on the deaf. Not only does a deaf signer have to use another method to communicate with a deaf individual, the hearing person is just as impaired when trying to use their standard form of communication. A terp, for instance, doesn't just terp for the deaf person, they terp for the hearing person who doesn't understand sign. Accommodation does not just provide for the deaf person, it provides for the hearing person, as well.

So why is it that the hearing seem to think that it is inumbent upon the deaf to facilitate communication? Why is the responsibility always on the deaf individual? The hearing need to be just as responsible for making themselves understood in this situation as do the deaf. If the hearing were as willing as the deaf to do whatever was necessary to insure that communication happened, perhaps our deaf kids would fare much better in the mainstream, and would not experience the psycho-social problems created by the isolation of always being the one to make the adjustment.

What is the commonground here? Where would you meet halfway? If we all know english and how to read and write. Wouldn't that be a good halfway point. Or is it wrong to expect deaf people to have to read and write english? Or is expected that all hearing people know how to sign in english and ASL? What in your opinion would be the best solution?