Peer Relationships of Children With Cochlear Implants

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The topic is peer relationships with children with cochlear implants.

And children with cochlear implants are still deaf children.

I didn't see in this thread where she said they weren't. please point it out if I have missed it.

Go back a couple of pages.
So I took your advise and spend the last 20 minutes or so going through the 50 posts and what she was responding to and found not one post where she said or implied that children with CI's are not deaf. I did find one of her posts where she said....
As an educator and a deaf individual with CIs, .
She herself has CI's but considers herself deaf (as she should) So I can't imagine she would suggest that you are not deaf with a CI.

It would be much eaiser since you have the information to simply provide a link to what you are claiming. If you are unable to find it then in my opinion, it would be appropriate for you to retract or correct your statement. With all due respect, my time is valuable to me.
 
What is the commonground here? Where would you meet halfway? If we all know english and how to read and write. Wouldn't that be a good halfway point. Or is it wrong to expect deaf people to have to read and write english? Or is expected that all hearing people know how to sign in english and ASL? What in your opinion would be the best solution?

First and foremost, we need to stop equating the use of English with speaking and listening. And no, it is not wrong to expect that deaf inviduals will learn English skills. I don't think you will find a deaf person who has refused to learn English skills. However, it is wrong to expect that they will use English in its spoken form whenever the need to communicate with a hearing individual arises. It is wrong to expect that they will speech read everything in that exchange, and it is wrong to expect that they will respond with voice in that exchange.

Where do we start? Starting with hearing parents of deaf children would be a good place. Rather than expecting the child to adapt to the hearing parents mode of communication completely, how about the parent adapting to the child's needs? Hearing parents, by and large, expect a deaf child to wear hearing aids or to be implanted and then to use their auditory function and their voice to adapt to the parents' preference for spoken communiction. What about the parent meeting the child halfway, and providing manual communication, as well?

In the classroom, an interpreter does not just provide information from the teacher. The terp also provides information to the teacher, and to the other class members that is coming from the deaf child. How about if we stop insisting that the terp is an accommodation for the dea child only, and start to accept that the terp assists the teacher and the other students as much as he/she assists the deaf individual.

When accommodations are made in the workplace, how about if we stop viewing them as accommodations serving the deaf person alone, and realize that those accommodations serve the hearing members of the workforce, as well.

How about if we stop seeing the communication difficulties between deaf and hearing as a deaf problem. It is just as much a hearing problem. If a deaf person doesn't use voice, and chooses to sign, the hearing individual doesn't use sign, then the hearing individual is just as impaired communicatively as the deaf individual.

How about if we accept English in the form of writing or typed into a Blackberry is every bit as viable communicatively as is the same words used in spoken English?

How about if, instead of just throwing deaf kids into the mainstream, we take the time and make the effort to educate the hearing members of that mainstream environment so that everyones needs are addressed appropropiately. I personally feel that not equipping the hearing students in a mainstream environment to understand and accommodate the fact that comminication is a 2 way street impedes their social development, as well. The hearing student misses the opportunity to actually interact with the deaf student in a way that could be as beneficial to the hearing student as the deaf student. Interaction widens the hearing student's perspective and provides them with a learning experience.

How about if we stop looking at communication difficulties as being the deaf individual's problem and understand that a failure to communicate is everyone's problem.

I could go on and on, but this is a beginning.
 
It would be much eaiser since you have the information to simply provide a link to what you are claiming. If you are unable to find it then in my opinion, it would be appropriate for you to retract or correct your statement. With all due respect, my time is valuable to me.

Well said. I get tired of having to backtrack too when someone says to just go back and look.
 
So I took your advise and spend the last 20 minutes or so going through the 50 posts and what she was responding to and found not one post where she said or implied that children with CI's are not deaf. I did find one of her posts where she said....
She herself has CI's but considers herself deaf (as she should) So I can't imagine she would suggest that you are not deaf with a CI.

It would be much eaiser since you have the information to simply provide a link to what you are claiming. If you are unable to find it then in my opinion, it would be appropriate for you to retract or correct your statement. With all due respect, my time is valuable to me.

Jillio (post 259) Let's stick to the topic.

Peer relationships of mainstreamed deaf children.

Vallee (in reply to post 259) The topic is peer relationships with children with cochlear implants.

Jillio (in reply to Vallee's reply) And children with cochlear implants are still deaf children.

With all due respect, my time is just as valuable to me. I have never considered looking for answers to be a waste of time.
 
Well said. I get tired of having to backtrack too when someone says to just go back and look.

And what would be your input regarding the peer relationships of deaf children in the mainstream?
 
You know, a thought just crossed my mind as I was reading another thread. More and more deaf students are being mainstreamed. More and more deaf individuals are becoming a part of the hearing workforce. In short, deaf people are visable to the hearing in a way they have never before been in history. They are integrating into hearing culture in ever increasing numbers.

It would appear to me remediating a communication problem is as incumbent upon the hearing as it is on the deaf. Not only does a deaf signer have to use another method to communicate with a deaf individual, the hearing person is just as impaired when trying to use their standard form of communication. A terp, for instance, doesn't just terp for the deaf person, they terp for the hearing person who doesn't understand sign. Accommodation does not just provide for the deaf person, it provides for the hearing person, as well.

So why is it that the hearing seem to think that it is inumbent upon the deaf to facilitate communication? Why is the responsibility always on the deaf individual? The hearing need to be just as responsible for making themselves understood in this situation as do the deaf. If the hearing were as willing as the deaf to do whatever was necessary to insure that communication happened, perhaps our deaf kids would fare much better in the mainstream, and would not experience the psycho-social problems created by the isolation of always being the one to make the adjustment.

Easy answer. Majority rules. It applies everywhere.
 
Easy answer. Majority rules. It applies everywhere.

Your forgot minority rights.

And if majority rules does indeed apply everywhere, then the mainstream would most definately be the worst place possible for the deaf student.
 
The topic is peer relationships with children with cochlear implants.

And children with cochlear implants are still deaf children.

I didn't see in this thread where she said they weren't. please point it out if I have missed it.

Go back a couple of pages.
rockdrummer said:
So I took your advise and spend the last 20 minutes or so going through the 50 posts and what she was responding to and found not one post where she said or implied that children with CI's are not deaf. I did find one of her posts where she said....
As an educator and a deaf individual with CIs, .
She herself has CI's but considers herself deaf (as she should) So I can't imagine she would suggest that you are not deaf with a CI.

It would be much eaiser since you have the information to simply provide a link to what you are claiming. If you are unable to find it then in my opinion, it would be appropriate for you to retract or correct your statement. With all due respect, my time is valuable to me.
Jillio (post 259) Let's stick to the topic.

Peer relationships of mainstreamed deaf children.

Vallee (in reply to post 259) The topic is peer relationships with children with cochlear implants.

Jillio (in reply to Vallee's reply) And children with cochlear implants are still deaf children.

With all due respect, my time is just as valuable to me. I have never considered looking for answers to be a waste of time.
I'm not sure why you neglected to include the last two posts in that exchange from your final response above. After all they were included in my post to which you are responding too.

There is a difference between looking for answers and going on a witch hunt where there are no witches. I think you have missed the point and it appears that you are attempting to shift the focus to the nobility of seeking answers instead of admitting that vallee never said in this thread that kids with CI's are not deaf. Which is what you are claiming she did. So where is the post in this thread where Vallee said kids with CI's are not deaf?
 
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I'm not sure why you neglected to include the last two posts in that exchange from your final response above. After all they were included in my post to which you are responding too.

There is a difference between looking for answers and going on a witch hunt where there are no witches. I think you have missed the point and it appears that you are attempting to shift the focus to the nobility of seeking answers instead of admitting that vallee never said in this thread that kids with CI's are not deaf. Which is what you are claiming she did. So where is the post in this thread where Vallee said kids with CI's are not deaf?

To make it short and simple, where she attempted to correct the point that the thread was about peer relationships in deaf children. Kids with CI are deaf children. Therefore unless one is stating that kids with CI are not deaf children, there was no need for correction.
 
To make it short and simple, where she attempted to correct the point that the thread was about peer relationships in deaf children. Kids with CI are deaf children. Therefore unless one is stating that kids with CI are not deaf children, there was no need for correction.

Well I'm back! Just got home from a long 7 hour drive but again that is off topic and a conversation. So let's get back on topic.

Jillio posted a research article, I can't find it with all the conversations back and forth, on deaf children in the mainstream. I felt it does not answer the topic of peer relationships of children with cochlear implants. Yes, CI children are deaf children, but research wise it does not go with the thread. It does have valuable information, but not with the thread.
 
Well I'm back! Just got home from a long 7 hour drive but again that is off topic and a conversation. So let's get back on topic.

Jillio posted a research article, I can't find it with all the conversations back and forth, on deaf children in the mainstream. I felt it does not answer the topic of peer relationships of children with cochlear implants. Yes, CI children are deaf children, but research wise it does not go with the thread. It does have valuable information, but not with the thread.

Actually, unless you believe that CI children are not deaf children, it most cetainly does go with the thread. In fact, it is much more relevent than discussing the experience of kids with cognitive delays and learning disorders.

And the findings re: peer relationships of children with CIs parallels the experience of the majority of other deaf children in the mainstream. I will refer you back to the original article, as well as the newest research by Marschark, et. al.
 
Actually, unless you believe that CI children are not deaf children, it most cetainly does go with the thread. In fact, it is much more relevent than discussing the experience of kids with cognitive delays and learning disorders.

And the findings re: peer relationships of children with CIs parallels the experience of the majority of other deaf children in the mainstream. I will refer you back to the original article, as well as the newest research by Marschark, et. al.

I see where this is going, come on Jillio do you not have a life? I am not flaming with you. CI children are deaf, I am deaf. I know what it feels like to be hard of hearing and deaf. It is MY life.

If you are looking to start bashing go for it, I don't have the time, energy or desire to. I have lesson plans for students who are language delayed and not LD, I have papers to grade, and most of all I have a family to spend time with. Good Night!
 
Rockdrummer and AlleyCat,

Thank you and enjoy your evening.

Val
 
I see where this is going, come on Jillio do you not have a life? I am not flaming with you. CI children are deaf, I am deaf. I know what it feels like to be hard of hearing and deaf. It is MY life.

If you are looking to start bashing go for it, I don't have the time, energy or desire to. I have lesson plans for students who are language delayed and not LD, I have papers to grade, and most of all I have a family to spend time with. Good Night!

Then if children with CI are deaf, my article is indeed applicable.

And yes, I do have a life. A good portion of which is spent in educational advocacy efforts regarding deaf children.
 
From the article referred to in the origninal post:


Nonetheless, several possible limitations of this study must be noted. Parents whose children were successful implant users may have been more willing to be interviewed than parents whose children were struggling with oral communication and with communicating with hearing peers after receiving the implant. For example, one mother, who was initially reluctant to be
interviewed because her child was not doing well with oral communication and peer socialization, said it was painful for her to talk about the implant. Thus, the parents who chose to participate in the study may have had
mostly positive experiences with the implants, whereas parents who chose not to participate were not happy with the implant’s results. Therefore, the generally positive portrayal of the implant in this study may not
represent typical experiences with the implant. Furthermore, other sources of data about these children’s social functioning (such as teacher reports) are currently unavailable; this further limits the generalizability of our findings.
Even the parents who were pleased with the implant’s
results, and reported that their children’s peer relationships improved after the implant, nonetheless reported lasting difficulties.



Finally, interaction with other children who have a hearing loss may be helpful. Research with deaf and hard-of-hearing children and adolescents in the mainstream documents pervasive feelings of isolation and
loneliness (
Evan, 1989; Stinson, Whitmire, & Kluwin,1996), resulting from the youngsters’ compromised ability to communicate orally with hearing peers. Parents in our study whose children had deaf friends reported that, despite their children’s improved ability to function in the mainstream, they had special relationships with these peers. Deaf children should be encouraged
to socialize with similar others. This can normalize” their experience and provide social support. Socializing with deaf peers can give these children
the experience of success in developing relationship skills, which could then be transferred to hearing peers.
 
From the article referred to in the origninal post:


Nonetheless, several possible limitations of this study must be noted. Parents whose children were successful implant users may have been more willing to be interviewed than parents whose children were struggling with oral communication and with communicating with hearing peers after receiving the implant. For example, one mother, who was initially reluctant to be
interviewed because her child was not doing well with oral communication and peer socialization, said it was painful for her to talk about the implant. Thus, the parents who chose to participate in the study may have had
mostly positive experiences with the implants, whereas parents who chose not to participate were not happy with the implant’s results. Therefore, the generally positive portrayal of the implant in this study may not
represent typical experiences with the implant. Furthermore, other sources of data about these children’s social functioning (such as teacher reports) are currently unavailable; this further limits the generalizability of our findings.
Even the parents who were pleased with the implant’s
results, and reported that their children’s peer relationships improved after the implant, nonetheless reported lasting difficulties.



Finally, interaction with other children who have a hearing loss may be helpful. Research with deaf and hard-of-hearing children and adolescents in the mainstream documents pervasive feelings of isolation and
loneliness (
Evan, 1989; Stinson, Whitmire, & Kluwin,1996), resulting from the youngsters’ compromised ability to communicate orally with hearing peers. Parents in our study whose children had deaf friends reported that, despite their children’s improved ability to function in the mainstream, they had special relationships with these peers. Deaf children should be encouraged
to socialize with similar others. This can normalize” their experience and provide social support. Socializing with deaf peers can give these children
the experience of success in developing relationship skills, which could then be transferred to hearing peers.
Some of the points you bolded are the reason I mentioned earlier about a newer study. This is somewhat dated information and it would be interesting to see how it compares with a more recent study using the same criteria.
 
Some of the points you bolded are the reason I mentioned earlier about a newer study. This is somewhat dated information and it would be interesting to see how it compares with a more recent study using the same criteria.

Why would you think that the results would change? Just curious. But Marschark's more recent lit review of all the studies that are applicable found the same results overall.
 
Why would you think that the results would change? Just curious. But Marschark's more recent lit review of all the studies that are applicable found the same results overall.

Therefore, the generally positive portrayal of the implant in this study may not represent typical experiences with the implant. Furthermore, other sources of data about these children’s social functioning (such as teacher reports) are currently unavailable; this further limits the generalizability of our findings.Even the parents who were pleased with the implant’s results, and reported that their children’s peer relationships improved after the implant, nonetheless reported lasting difficulties..
The study was accepted in Jan of 2000. Since then there have been an increased number of children being implanted with advances in technology, surgical procedures and overall experience. It would be interesting to see if a newer study found the same results in terms of typical experience. Typical in 2000 may differ from typical of today. Also if additional sources of data about the childrens social functioning are available today, I could offer additional insight be it positive or negative. The stuff about interacting with deaf peers and the benefits I am in agreement with. There are also serveral other positions made in the study that may differ today for the reasons I mentioned above.... Like would children that are successful with a CI experience the same frustrations in learning oral skills that kids without CI's went through?
 
The study was accepted in Jan of 2000. Since then there have been an increased number of children being implanted with advances in technology, surgical procedures and overall experience. It would be interesting to see if a newer study found the same results in terms of typical experience. Typical in 2000 may differ from typical of today. Also if additional sources of data about the childrens social functioning are available today, I could offer additional insight be it positive or negative. The stuff about interacting with deaf peers and the benefits I am in agreement with. There are also serveral other positions made in the study that may differ today for the reasons I mentioned above.... Like would children that are successful with a CI experience the same frustrations in learning oral skills that kids without CI's went through?

Well, the answer to that last question would be dependent upon the amount of benefit provided by the CI. Even with advances in technology, the results are still quite variable by individual.

I will try to find the Marscharck research I referred to. I posted it several months ago, so I've got it somewhere in my neverending pile of research. It is more current than 2000, but concludes the same as this research.
 
Well, the answer to that last question would be dependent upon the amount of benefit provided by the CI. Even with advances in technology, the results are still quite variable by individual.

I will try to find the Marscharck research I referred to. I posted it several months ago, so I've got it somewhere in my neverending pile of research. It is more current than 2000, but concludes the same as this research.
Thanks, your time is appreciated.
 
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