Oral school

[faire_jour]

Then, as I said, supplement what you believe is inadequate in the adjunct services offered in line with their philosophy. That is your responsibility.

No, as I have clearly explained, everyone who works with her feels she is inadequate. It has nothing to do with philosophy, they want her gone as much as I do.

 

[faire_jour]

If she is able to identify and comprehend spoken language, what is it exactly that you think she needs to be working on?

Expanding her vocabulary, word discrimination, etc. Just because she is beginning to comprehend, doesn't mean she gets everything.

 

[loml]

No, as I have clearly explained, everyone who works with her feels she is inadequate. It has nothing to do with philosophy, they want her gone as much as I do.

faire_jour: Are "they" willing to file a complaint through the necessary chain of command?

 

[faire_jour]

faire_jour: Are "they" willing to file a complaint through the necessary chain of command?

I spoke with Miss Kat's teacher about this, less than a week ago. She said that the teachers have done everything they can, that the administrators don't care, that now it needs to come from the parents.

 

[loml]

I spoke with Miss Kat's teacher about this, less than a week ago. She said that the teachers have done everything they can, that the administrators don't care, that now it needs to come from the parents.

fair_jour: "Taking on" the administration of a school is an exhausting task. One must consider, if this SLP is removed, who is the replacement and what are their qualifications? Would this individual meet the needs?

Once again, are you aware of a resource library for "listening" activities?

 

[loml]

Expanding her vocabulary, word discrimination, etc. Just because she is beginning to comprehend, doesn't mean she gets everything.

fair_jour: Phoneme manipulation is a component of vocabulary as well as rhyming, perhaps this is goal for the visual phonics..

 

[jillio]

From the synopsis of case law that you linked to:

The district program was not designed to address the student's need for improvement of his listening and auditory skills and would have required him to learn a new form of communication.

That is hardly the case with your daughter. She is fluent in sign, you tell us. You also tell us in the above post that she already identifies and comprehends spoken language. Therefore, this case law would not apply to your case. Eureka Union School District/Placer County Office of Education.

a sound field system for their 4 year-old hearing impaired child and failure to place the child in a regular preschool classroom with non-disabled peers. From Illinois case #001231. Again, you are free to send your child to an integrated classroom in a mainstreamed school if that is what you are seeking. AVT is not a service offered under the philosophy of the school in which she is enrolled. You have stated on numerous occasions that the school has told you that AVT is not a part of their philosophy. This case does not set precedent for what you are requesting, either.

The next two cases: I tried to pull the actual case law and ruling from your links, but the page could not be found. If this was a public school, then the case law applies differently. AVT is not contrary to the specific philosophy of the school. Your daughter is enrolled in a school which adheres to a very specific philosophy. Just as you cannot demand that they alter their philosophy to suit your whims, neither could you go into a Hebrew School and demand that your daughter be taught Catholic Catechism. Why? Opposition to the basic phiosophy of the school. You can't enroll your child in a school that employes Montessori methodolgy, and demand that they teach your child in a way that oppposes the Montessori philosophy. You can't enroll your child in a Bi-Bi school and demand that they change their philosophy to incorporate oralist philosophy. You need to decide which philosophy you agree with, and then enroll your child in a school that fulfills that. You can't enroll them in a school that disagrees with your philosophy and then demand that they change their philosophy simply because you want to use a different one with your child.

 

[jillio]

No, as I have clearly explained, everyone who works with her feels she is inadequate. It has nothing to do with philosophy, they want her gone as much as I do.

If that is the case, then I suggest that you all work as a group to see that happens. Through the proper chain of command and legally. But you cannot claim that she is incompetent simply because the type of therapy that she is providing is in line with the school's philosophy.

 

[faire_jour]

From the synopsis of case law that you linked to:

The district program was not designed to address the student's need for improvement of his listening and auditory skills and would have required him to learn a new form of communication.

That is hardly the case with your daughter. She is fluent in sign, you tell us. You also tell us in the above post that she already identifies and comprehends spoken language. Therefore, this case law would not apply to your case. Eureka Union School District/Placer County Office of Education.

a sound field system for their 4 year-old hearing impaired child and failure to place the child in a regular preschool classroom with non-disabled peers. From Illinois case #001231. Again, you are free to send your child to an integrated classroom in a mainstreamed school if that is what you are seeking. AVT is not a service offered under the philosophy of the school in which she is enrolled. You have stated on numerous occasions that the school has told you that AVT is not a part of their philosophy. This case does not set precedent for what you are requesting, either.

The next two cases: I tried to pull the actual case law and ruling from your links, but the page could not be found. If this was a public school, then the case law applies differently. AVT is not contrary to the specific philosophy of the school. Your daughter is enrolled in a school which adheres to a very specific philosophy. Just as you cannot demand that they alter their philosophy to suit your whims, neither could you go into a Hebrew School and demand that your daughter be taught Catholic Catechism. Why? Opposition to the basic phiosophy of the school. You can't enroll your child in a school that employes Montessori methodolgy, and demand that they teach your child in a way that oppposes the Montessori philosophy. You can't enroll your child in a Bi-Bi school and demand that they change their philosophy to incorporate oralist philosophy. You need to decide which philosophy you agree with, and then enroll your child in a school that fulfills that. You can't enroll them in a school that disagrees with your philosophy and then demand that they change their philosophy simply because you want to use a different one with your child.

There were many cases there, including some that have successfully argued that the school must provide or pay for aural rehab.

 

[deafskeptic]

There were many cases there, including some that have successfully argued that the school must provide or pay for aural rehab.

Will you cite these cases?

 

[jillio]

There were many cases there, including some that have successfully argued that the school must provide or pay for aural rehab.

Yes there are several cases on the webpage. They are synopisis, and do not contain access to the actual case filed nor the decison. However, all have differences from the situation you have described with your daughter. You cannot use as a precedent, a case which has fundamental differences from your own. Most specifically, they are suits filed against public school systems, in which case aural rehab does not go against their fundamental philosophy. Your daughter is enrolled in a Bi-Bi school, which employes a specific methodology that directly relates to the philosophy of the school. If you want a school that provides services that do not violate their foundational philosophy, then enroll her in a school with a philosophy that is not directly opposed to the philosophy of AVT. Again, you can't enroll a child in a Hebrew School and demand that the school provide a class for Catholic Catechism. You cannot enroll a child in a school that is founded on a Bi-Bi philosophy, and demand that they employ techniques oppposed to that philosophy. You knew what their philosophy was when you enrolled her. That philosophy has not changed. What has changed is your idea of what she needs. Therefore, it is incumbent upon you to change her enrollment, or to seek those services elsewhere. The school hasn't changed. Your ideas have changed. You knew full well prior to implantation that your daughter would require extensive aural rehab. You should have planned for that prior to implantation

But since you used Listen Up as a source for these cases, then perhaps you could also purchase their program for aural and speech therapy. Here is a description of their program, Listen Up and Talk it Up: Aural Rehabilitation Programs.

I've spent several years developing two innovative programs for children with a hearing loss. The first is called "Listen Up". This program emphasizes auditory skills while its companion "Talk It Up" develops verbal abilities. I've combined these 2 programs and am making the set available to others who are looking for a program like this.

I’ve had the opportunity to share the program with a number of clinical therapists specializing in Aural Habilitation / Auditory-Verbal therapy and they’ve been very happy with the results. It is currently being used in schools, clinics, and homes across the country. This combined program can make a tremendous difference in the life of children with a hearing loss. It is also being used in the rehabilitation of adult patients, and stroke patients.

I developed this program for my child when he was about ready to enter kindergarten. If you are a parent trying to decide if your child is ready for this program, look at the sample cards. If you're still not sure, print out the cards and take them to your child's speech pathologist. Ask her if she thinks your child could benefit from them.

A complete product description can be found by following the hot links in the left margin. Each section of the listen up and talk it up program includes up to 6 blank cards so you can add your own, increasing its versatility.

Like the parent responsible for this website, and the parent who designed the program for use with her own son, it is your responsibility to provide additional services for your child. Follow her lead and take the responsibility for providing for your child what you are so certain that she needs. There are numerous resources available to you to supplement any adjunct services the school provides. If you are so convinced that these extra services are mandatory for her success, well being, and happiness, then do what parents do: provide them for your child. There are many alternatives to the one that you seem to think is the only alternative: forcing a school to violate its philosophy and mission. You claim that parents are the primary teachers. If you truly believe this, then you also must believe that it is your responsibility to make sure your child has what she needs to learn what you believe is important for her to learn.

You chose to implant your daughter. In doing so, you knew full well that she would need extensive aural rehab following the implant. This is something you should have been prepared for. Her need for aural rehab is a direct consequence of the decision you made. You accepted the responsibility for that when you made the decision. Now it is time for you to accept those consequences. Apparently, you believe she is not receiving enough aural rehab through her school placement. If that is the case, then it is up to you to fill the gaps. Additional professional rehab and programs designed for parents to use with their children at home are but two additional alternatives that you do not seem willing to utilize. As you have often said, this is your child and you will make the decisions you believe are in her best interest. Those decisions are not made in a vacuum. When you make the decision, you are also responsible, as the parent, for doing whatever is necessary as a consequence of that decision. You cannot simply sit back and demand that others do it for you.

 

[jillio]

Will you cite these cases?

She provided a link to Listen Up, and there were some synopsis of these cases listed on their homepage. However, they all differ from the case she relays to us about her daughter.

 

[faire_jour]

She provided a link to Listen Up, and there were some synopsis of these cases listed on their homepage. However, they all differ from the case she relays to us about her daughter.

I was merely refuting your claim that aural rehab was the parents responsibility.

 

[jillio]

I was merely refuting your claim that aural rehab was the parents responsibility.

Please see post #631. It is most definately the parent's responsibility to provide what they believe their child needs. You want the freedom to choose for your child, then you have to accept the responsibility of the consequences of that decision. You don't appear to be willing to do that. You simply want the school to do it for you. The Bi-Bi placement she is currently in doesn't meet your specifications for AVT. The oral program doesn't meet your specifications for education. The mainstream programs do not meet your specification for communication. Quite frankly, it doesn't appear that there is a program in existence that will fulfill all of your demands. Therefore, choose the one that provides the best benefit based on your priorities, and then fill the gaps with your own efforts and hard work. It would be a much better use of your time and your daughter's time than spending it complaining that none of the programs meet your extensive list of demands.

 

[flip]

Nor is a message board intended to be a place for blantant advertising by an employee of an association.

Yeah. I suspect Loml is a SPAM bot. It's so blantant.

 

[flip]

faire jour, aren't you overdoing things a bit? I don't want to tell you what to do with your child, but hope you don't put too much pressure on your daughter beeing perfect etc.

 

[deafdyke]

The education at the school is great. It is the adjunct services that are not (speech, audiology, etc)

The director has also, in our IEP meeting, advised us to move her placement.

Faire_jour would it be possible for her to do a split placement? Like a couple of days at her bi-bi program, and then a couple of days at the oral school?
I think you're afraid that if you don't go whole hog with oral only, she won't develop oral speech.
As long as she's getting therapy from a really good speech therapist or an AVT she will progress with spoken language.
It's the quality of the speech therapy not the quanity that really counts.
Maybe a good idea might be to go and get Miss Kat evaluated in a university/teaching /Children's hoispital setting, and see what they say about the quality of her spoken language.
Maybe too, a good idea might be to help the school improve the adjunct services somehow.
I have to say that I think you're simply experiancing what you're experiancing NOT b/c bi-bi isn't spoken language friendly......but rather b/c it's very hard to find good speech therapists for small or public school programs. Most of the good professionals tend to be attracted to private practice or the oral programs.

 

[faire_jour]

Faire_jour would it be possible for her to do a split placement? Like a couple of days at her bi-bi program, and then a couple of days at the oral school?
I think you're afraid that if you don't go whole hog with oral only, she won't develop oral speech.
As long as she's getting therapy from a really good speech therapist or an AVT she will progress with spoken language.
It's the quality of the speech therapy not the quanity that really counts.
Maybe a good idea might be to go and get Miss Kat evaluated in a university/teaching /Children's hoispital setting, and see what they say about the quality of her spoken language.
Maybe too, a good idea might be to help the school improve the adjunct services somehow.
I have to say that I think you're simply experiancing what you're experiancing NOT b/c bi-bi isn't spoken language friendly......but rather b/c it's very hard to find good speech therapists for small or public school programs. Most of the good professionals tend to be attracted to private practice or the oral programs.

They told us that split placement is not an option. We need to choose one or the other.

Her private AV is through the university.

 

[Lissa]

put her in an oral placement then give her an 'terp

 

[faire_jour]

put her in an oral placement then give her an 'terp

We asked the oral school about that too. They said no. If we want an interpreter than we have to mainstream her