'Open Carry' Law Contoversy: Gun Owner Cited

Daredevel7 said:
I love numbers too. However, in this case, it's going to be hard to quantify the number of times that gun owners "used a gun to protect themselves". Even if a number was posted, people are just going to say "Oh, I bet there's a lot more that went unreported to the police. I know someone who ___fill in the blank___"

The number of accidental deaths (especially for kids) can be easily quantified (and easily found through Google) but people will just say "How many of those guns were recklessly unlocked? I bet the parents didn't even teach the kids, etc etc. Improve gun safety!" Basically, if someone accidentally gets killed, it's the stupidity of this gun owner and all gun owners feel like they should not be punished for the stupidity of this particular guy.

So, do you still want the numbers?
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unlocked? child accidental deaths? that's not pertinent to this thread which is about open carry (and also CCW).
 
Jiro said:
unlocked? child accidental deaths? that's not pertinent to this thread which is about open carry (and also CCW).
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Yes... but I was responding to PoiToy's question to see the statistics of a gun accidentally killing someone. I brought up the children's deaths because I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere that children was the number 1 victim of accidental killings by guns. I suppose I can just focus only on the accidental killings that occurred in public places (this would pertain to CCW/OC). But this would have to be compared to the number of crimes prevented only in public, too.

So instead of:
# people accidentally killed by a gun.
vs
# crimes prevented because victim or someone in the area owned and carried a gun.

We would need to compare in this thread:
# people accidentally killed by a gun IN A PUBLIC AREA.
vs
# crimes prevented because victim or someone in the area owned and carried a gun IN A PUBLIC AREA.

Better?
 
Daredevel7 said:
Yes... but I was responding to PoiToy's question to see the statistics of a gun accidentally killing someone. I brought up the children's deaths because I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere that children was the number 1 victim of accidental killings by guns. I suppose I can just focus only on the accidental killings that occurred in public places (this would pertain to CCW/OC). But this would have to be compared to the number of crimes prevented only in public, too.

So instead of:
# people accidentally killed by a gun.
vs
# crimes prevented because victim or someone in the area owned and carried a gun.

We would need to compare in this thread:
# people accidentally killed by a gun IN A PUBLIC AREA.
vs
# crimes prevented because victim or someone in the area owned and carried a gun IN A PUBLIC AREA.

Better?
Click to expand...

Right. Because death doesn't matter unless it happens in public, right?:cool2:
 
PoiToy said:
Not in this thread, you haven't. :cool2: I've been looking for them. You've made the claim repeatedly, but not once have you actually supported it with statistics.

I'm fairly open-minded and willing to change my opinions IF someone can show me facts (just saying something does NOT make it a fact) that prove my information is bad. I'm a numbers kind of girl: If you can show me the actual studies that shows that average gun owners are more likely to kill someone accidentally than use a gun to protect themselves, I want to know that. I consider that important to my decision making. So far, though, it's all just debate and no data. So whatcha got?
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Oh, well. I have presented the statistics. If I can find them, you can find them. You are free, of course, to ignore them. Many people do. That is why children and adults continue to die at an alarming rate from unsecured firearms in the home.
 
Eighty said:
keep your mind closed and ask more questions. :roll:

If hell broke loose, it comforts me that my family will have higher chance to survive. Criminals love anti-gun folks, easy target.




I knew that I shouldn't have gone in this thread, so Im out.
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You are what? About 19 or 20 years old, right? It shows in what you say.

I have never been victimized by a criminal, and I can say without a doubt that I encounter more situations on a daily basis where it is more likely for me to become a victim that you.:laugh2:
 
Jiro said:
I'm so confused by such statement.... why would you even talk about that when you repeatedly said that you have no need to carry a gun? so you support CCW permit??? :confused:
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I don't have the need to carry a weapon of any kind, despite the fact that I am regularly in areas that would cause you to, and I quote, "shit your pants".

And, just as I said, I would never pull a gun without full intention of using it. I was raised around firearms and fired my first gun, under strict supervision, at the age of 9. I am well versed in gun safety, and also in the negative consequences of those who decide, as an adult, that they have some need to have a gun available to "protect themselves" from imagined threats.
 
Steinhauer said:
They have penis envy Jiro.
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You really shouldn't be using terms that you know nothing about. But here is a fact that you might be interested in: those that get on the internet and talk tough about owning guns and killing people are definately overcompensating for the lack of adult size in their genitals.:cool2:
 
jillio said:
You really shouldn't be using terms that you know nothing about. But here is a fact that you might be interested in: those that get on the internet and talk tough about owning guns and killing people are definately overcompensating for the lack of adult size in their genitals.:cool2:
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Any statistics on that one? :giggle:
 
PoiToy said:
Not in this thread, you haven't. :cool2: I've been looking for them. You've made the claim repeatedly, but not once have you actually supported it with statistics.

I'm fairly open-minded and willing to change my opinions IF someone can show me facts (just saying something does NOT make it a fact) that prove my information is bad. I'm a numbers kind of girl: If you can show me the actual studies that shows that average gun owners are more likely to kill someone accidentally than use a gun to protect themselves, I want to know that. I consider that important to my decision making. So far, though, it's all just debate and no data. So whatcha got?
Click to expand...

Daredevel7 said:
I love numbers too. However, in this case, it's going to be hard to quantify the number of times that gun owners "used a gun to protect themselves". Even if a number was posted, people are just going to say "Oh, I bet there's a lot more that went unreported to the police. I know someone who ___fill in the blank___"

The number of accidental deaths (especially for kids) can be easily quantified (and easily found through Google) but people will just say "How many of those guns were recklessly unlocked? I bet the parents didn't even teach the kids, etc etc. Improve gun safety!" Basically, if someone accidentally gets killed, it's the stupidity of this gun owner and all gun owners feel like they should not be punished for the stupidity of this particular guy.

So, do you still want the numbers?
Click to expand...



Daredevel7, PoiToy. I did the homework you were supposed to do. :giggle:

Nonfatal injuries by Firearms:​


cdcUnintentionalFirearm.jpg


cdcFirearm.jpg



Death (Fatal injuries) by Firearms:​

cdcDeathUF.jpg


cdcDeathFirearm.jpg




So, in a nutshell it is for firearm injuries/deaths:
Code: 
Weapon    Year    Type            Instances    Population    Crude Rate    Age-Adjusted Rate*
Firearm    2008    Death            30,728        304,374,846    10.10%        9.95%
Firearm    2008    Unintentional Death    592        304,374,846    0.19%        0.19%
Firearm    2009    Nonfatal Injury        48,158        307,006,550    15.69%        15.67%
Firearm    2009    Unintentional Injury    18,610        307,006,550    6.06%        6.00%
argue away! Do your homework next time. The data is available at the CDC :cool2:

Use the CDC - Injury - WISQARS (Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System) if you want to do it yourself.
CDC doesn't have data past 2009 for nonfatal, and for deaths the latest is 2008.
Waiting for someone to appear and say something is wrong here with this in 3..2..1.
 
deafskeptic said:
Penis envy? I don't think Freud is taken seriously these days.
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He is still taken seriously, but with modifications to his more sexist based theories. He is still considered to be the father of psychoanalysis, and to have made huge, origninal contributions. Most all theories in use today can thank Freud for their foundations. Even those that appear not to be related.

The problem is, people who take a phrase like "penis envy" and throw it around without even knowing what the construct is. They have never read Freud, they have never studied Freud, and they have no understanding of the meaning of the term. It actually has nothing to do with penises. The term "penis envy" is metaphorical.

Sexist males tend you misuse it constantly.
 
deafskeptic said:
On second thought, maybe he's on to something re the guys with big guns and trucks. :hmm:
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Yeah, male to male "penis envy". But what they are actually envious of is the guys who have success with women. They are overcompensating for their own success.
 
jillio said:
He is still taken seriously, but with modifications to his more sexist based theories. He is still considered to be the father of psychoanalysis, and to have made huge, origninal contributions. Most all theories in use today can thank Freud for their foundations. Even those that appear not to be related.

The problem is, people who take a phrase like "penis envy" and throw it around without even knowing what the construct is. They have never read Freud, they have never studied Freud, and they have no understanding of the meaning of the term. It actually has nothing to do with penises. The term "penis envy" is metaphorical.

Sexist males tend you misuse it constantly.
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Ah. I'll keep that in mind.
 
Uhh, naisho, did you limit your statistic out of convenience or space? You failed to tell the whole story when you left things out.

There are many more statistics available. Might want to check out the 10 leading causes of death in various age groups and see how often firearms have come into play. I got mine from the CDC, too. Changes the picture completely. You really need to look from all angles before drawing a conclusion.
 
I think it will throw out in court because it is already on state law, however local law may be different from state law.

At least, they should glad that they don't live in DC. The gun law in DC sucks and if I am gun owner so I am going live in NoVA.
 
jillio said:
Uhh, naisho, did you limit your statistic out of convenience or space? You failed to tell the whole story when you left things out.

There are many more statistics available. Might want to check out the 10 leading causes of death in various age groups and see how often firearms have come into play. I got mine from the CDC, too. Changes the picture completely. You really need to look from all angles before drawing a conclusion.
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lol... coming from a person who posted something from VPC without telling a whole story.
 
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