'Open Carry' Law Contoversy: Gun Owner Cited

[Steinhauer]

Let's let naisho clarify his meaning shall we. You misread far too often.

So...having a mental illness is a violation of the law? You guys really need to think before you speak.

And CCW is not a right. It is a privilege in certain states.

No maam, it is a constitutional right. You mis-read, and "read into" a lot of what people say far too much for you to be critical of others.

In regards to your little jab at "us guys" intellect .... um, you need to think before you post. Being mentally ill is not against the law, no. Having a mental illness and carrying a gun is.

And THAT ... is what "us guys" are talking about. Try and keep up.

 

[Jiro]

He chuckled at your concern for other individuals? Of course, he's a cop; He shoots to kill.

He chuckled at my unfounded fear and lack of knowledge. He has experience, training, and knowledge to know what works and what doesn't work.

Anyone who continues to be a threat after taking a 16 gauge shot round is on PCP or something. You get someone like that, and no 9mm pistol is going to stop them either.

I don't think you understand the difference between 16-gauge and 9mm when it comes to home defense. Both weapons are typically ineffective. That's why 12-gauge is considered the best home defense weapon.

Why? In most home invasion cases - you'll never have to shoot 12-gauge shotgun. Just cock it and trust me - when he hears that, he's not going to stick around and play a bluff game with you

Concerns about being inhumane? Cruel? Isn't that a contradiction to your logic? You think it's more humane to shoot them with a bigger, more destructive load? Um, okay . . .

yes. when I shoot, it's shoot to kill.

But you.... he's going to survive 16-gauge and that's just cruel because doctors will have to spend several hours to pick hundreds of pellets from his body. 16-gauge is not designed to kill a human being, only birds. it's a very survival injury. I equate it with Iraqi torture. that's sick.

It's unfounded because you say it is? Oh wow, that's quite solid reasoning you got there, Jiro! Ohhhhhh, you mean it's unfounded because your Army friend told you? Ohhhhh, okay. Now I gotcha. I'll just settle for that and let you not address any of the points I made. You and your Ranger friend are obviously right!

because my argument (similar to yours in previous post) was unfounded and did not have any substantial backing. It's just bunch of concocted hypothetical scenarios that either rarely happened or never happened.

Like I said - after months of training and education.... I fully understand my friend's and officer's argument.

 

[Reba]

...On most cases - you'll never have to shoot 12-gauge shotgun in case of home invasion. Just cock it and trust me - when he hears that, he's not going to stick around and play a bluff game with you

Just hope he's not deaf.

... he's going to survive 16-gauge and that's just cruel because doctors will have to spend several hours to pick hundreds of pellets from his body...

If the intruder meant to harm me or my loved ones, then boo-hoo if he needs to have pellets picked out.

 

[Jiro]

oh one more thing -

Anyone who continues to be a threat after taking a 16 gauge shot round is on PCP or something. You get someone like that, and no 9mm pistol is going to stop them either.

Precisely!!!! Why use 9mm or 16-gauge and play CRAP game with your life?

12-gauge with 000 will unequivocally, undoubtedly, and unquestionably take him down - 100% guarantee. Why would you use something ineffective for home defense? If he was wearing a coat, 16-gauge or 20-gauge is ineffective.

Since you are so concerned about wall penetration and some innocent people - then you should not get a gun at all. simple as that. Why not just get a big badass BB shotgun? Just take the orange tip off and it'll look real.

 

[Jiro]

Just hope he's not deaf.

true but I'll make sure he can see my shotgun and I'll sign - "which?"

If the intruder meant to harm me or my loved ones, then boo-hoo if he needs to have pellets picked out.

lol I guess I'm too merciful to not let him go thru excruciating pain for years and be drowned in medical debt which would make him rob some more!

 

[jillio]

correct. you have a choice to decide to get hurricane insurance or not. and I should have a choice to carry a gun or not.

we should not be regulated by laws that's based on "improbability"

My having hurricane insurance even though there is a huge probability of me never receiving damage from a hurricane is not the same as having a gun. The probability that the gun will injure someone in your home, innocent person, btw, is far greater than you ever needing it for protection. My buying an unnecessary insurance policy harms, nor has the potential to harm, no one.

 

[TWA]

Man, do you even see what you're writing here?

He chuckled at my unfounded fear and lack of knowledge. He has experience, training, and knowledge to know what works and what doesn't work.

I see what happened here. This has nothing to do with the cop's expertise or knowledge. Guns are guns and they are going to mess someone up, regardless. So basically you let him make you feel insecure for your correct concern about other people's safety? Now you want to be a big man like him and use the big boy's ammo.

I don't think you understand the difference between 16-gauge and 9mm when it comes to home defense. Both weapons are typically ineffective. That's why 12-gauge is considered the best home defense weapon.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you own a 9mm handgun. No? So why do you have that? I thought it's for protection? If 9mm's are so ineffective, why is that usually that the size that a police officer carries?

Why? On most home invasion cases - you'll never have to shoot 12-gauge shotgun. Just cock it and trust me - when he hears that, he's not going to stick around and play a bluff game with you

A thug cannot tell the difference between a 12g and 16g. Come on. You said you know about guns. You should know this.

yes. when I shoot, it's shoot to kill.

But you.... he's going to survive 16-gauge and that's just cruel because doctors will have to spend several hours to pick hundreds of pellets from his body. 16-gauge is not designed to kill a human being, only birds. it's a very survival injury. I equate it with Iraqi torture. that's sick.

This is seriously the argument you are making? Seriously? In your mind you think it's more humane to kill the person than to disable him (dramatically indeed, but that's the price he pays for entering your home. No?) Let's ask 10 hypothetical thugs that break into a home what they would rather be shot with. I'm sure they'd prefer the 16g and still be alive then be shot with a 12g 000 and have a hole blown through their chest.

because my argument (similar to yours in previous post) was unfounded and did not have any substantial backing. It's just bunch of concocted hypothetical scenarios that either rarely happened or never happened.

Like I said - after months of training and education.... I fully understand my friend's and officer's argument.

For purposes of this argument, why in the world should your reasoning here be valid? You provide absolutely no counter to the points I brought up. Simply saying you have an Army Ranger friend (and just because he is/was a Ranger does not make him an expert on this, I'm sorry to say. You're appealing to false authority here).

Until you provide sound refutation to those points, which I am very interested to hear, by the way, I consider your position ridiculous and invalid.

 

[jillio]

for protection. what else?


where? sounds like you are being hypervigilant and fearful.

Protection from what? You admitted that you would not place yourself in a dangerous situation. You also admitted that if you were confronted by a potentially dangerous individual, you would, and I quote, "shit your pants". That kind of fear is contradictory to having a firearm to protect yourself. You are more likely to shoot an innocent electric meter reader because you see some sort of threat that isn't there. Just like the guy I mentioned yesterday that killed his daughter in law because he thought she was an intruder.

 

[jillio]

He chuckled at my unfounded fear and lack of knowledge. He has experience, training, and knowledge to know what works and what doesn't work.


I don't think you understand the difference between 16-gauge and 9mm when it comes to home defense. Both weapons are typically ineffective. That's why 12-gauge is considered the best home defense weapon.

Why? In most home invasion cases - you'll never have to shoot 12-gauge shotgun. Just cock it and trust me - when he hears that, he's not going to stick around and play a bluff game with you


yes. when I shoot, it's shoot to kill.

But you.... he's going to survive 16-gauge and that's just cruel because doctors will have to spend several hours to pick hundreds of pellets from his body. 16-gauge is not designed to kill a human being, only birds. it's a very survival injury. I equate it with Iraqi torture. that's sick.


because my argument (similar to yours in previous post) was unfounded and did not have any substantial backing. It's just bunch of concocted hypothetical scenarios that either rarely happened or never happened.

Like I said - after months of training and education.... I fully understand my friend's and officer's argument.

See? Right there. You keep posting things that show that you think you have something to prove, and that your fear is disproportional to any threat you could ever receive. That is what is so scary about the thought of you having a gun. Of course, the other possibility is that you truly believe none of what you are saying, but are simply trying to present a big bad front to impress someone.

 

[Jiro]

Then you don't go into neighborhoods that are dangerous, if you believe it only happens in movies. As I suspected, your knowlege is a bit limited, and therefore, your ability to judge a threat is limited.

that doesn't mean it will never happen to me. There were several shootings in just one year - only 15-25 minutes radius from my home. The worst one was execution type on 3 college students by a drunk guy. There was a hit-like job on broad daylight at McDonald just 15 min away in Brooklyn. mind you - please do not confuse this person with law-abiding citizen. this happened right here in NYC with gun ban law.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zuff7y_N5XI]MCDONALD'S SHOOTING: Shocking scenes as man is gunned down in Brooklyn - YouTube[/ame]

and... I've already had enough training and experience to be prepared for whatever will happen to me (almost). and you know what's the first thing I would do? run away. forrest gump style.

I said people had no business using religious arguments to determine a legal principle. Stop trying to twist my words, or read with more comprehension, whichever it takes.

and you have no business using concocted scenarios and so-called mental diagnosis to tell people what to do and what not to do.

 

[Steinhauer]

Protection from what? You admitted that you would not place yourself in a dangerous situation. You also admitted that if you were confronted by a potentially dangerous individual, you would, and I quote, "shit your pants". That kind of fear is contradictory to having a firearm to protect yourself. You are more likely to shoot an innocent electric meter reader because you see some sort of threat that isn't there. Just like the guy I mentioned yesterday that killed his daughter in law because he thought she was an intruder.

You should ban baseball bats then. Instead of using a gun, he "might" have used a baseball bat, and his daughter in law could have died from internal bleeding and possibly have had subdural hemorrhaging.

Baseball bats would cause far more damage and the victim of mis-identity would suffer far more greatly.


Ban baseball bats!

 

[TXgolfer]

You know, lately you really haven't been contributing anything to this site other than a lot of passive aggressive happy faces. Do you have anything to contribute to AD other than your snarkiness? If not, kindly piss off, okay?

You must have missed my "cutie pies" post

I found your post ridiculous. Although "bobbies" don't carry firearms The police still have departments that DO carry firearms. And even the "bobbies" carry pepper spray and batons which you complained about in another thread.

As for standing around giving directions you might want to check out Crime Fighters (British version of Cops)

 

[jillio]

that doesn't mean it will never happen to me. There were several shootings in just one year - only 15-25 minutes radius from my home. The worst one was execution type on 3 college students by a drunk guy. There was a hit-like job on broad daylight at McDonald just 15 min away in Brooklyn. mind you - please do not confuse this person with law-abiding citizen. this happened right here in NYC with gun ban law.

MCDONALD'S SHOOTING: Shocking scenes as man is gunned down in Brooklyn - YouTube

and... I've already had enough training and experience to be prepared for whatever will happen to me (almost). and you know what's the first thing I would do? run away. forrest gump style.


and you have no business using concocted scenarios and so-called mental diagnosis to tell people what to do and what not to do.

I haven't conconcoted a single scenario. You are the one that keeps coming up with the hypotheticals. Nor have I made any form of a mental diagnosis. See what I mean about you seeing threat at every corner?

That's the scary thing. That you think you are completely prepared for anything that might happen to you.

Thanks for the videos, but the probability of that happening again, and you being involved is slim to none. You are misrepresenting the threat of it occuring again. Obviously, you have fallen into that trap of believing because there are pictures of it somewhere it is likely to happen again. Just like people overestimate the probability of being killed in a plane crash.

 

[jillio]

You must have missed my "cutie pies" post

I found your post ridiculous. Although "bobbies" don't carry firearms The police still have departments that DO carry firearms. And even the "bobbies" carry pepper spray and batons which you complained about in another thread.

As for standing around giving directions you might want to check out Crime Fighters (British version of Cops)

Last I checked, pepper spray hasn't killed anyone. It simply disables them so they can be subdued with the least amount of harm to all. Since we were discussing the difference in humane reactions, that is, as we were saying, much more humane than killing them.

 

[jillio]

You should ban baseball bats then. Instead of using a gun, he "might" have used a baseball bat, and his daughter in law could have died from internal bleeding and possibly have had subdural hemorrhaging.

Baseball bats would cause far more damage and the victim of mis-identity would suffer far more greatly.


Ban baseball bats!

Think, Steinhauer. If she got close enough for him to smack her with a Louisville Slugger, he would have seen that it was his daughter in law.:roll:

 

[TXgolfer]

Last I checked, pepper spray hasn't killed anyone. It simply disables them so they can be subdued with the least amount of harm to all. Since we were discussing the difference in humane reactions, that is, as we were saying, much more humane than killing them.

Widow sues over pepper spray death

 

[Reba]

Last I checked, pepper spray hasn't killed anyone. It simply disables them so they can be subdued with the least amount of harm to all. Since we were discussing the difference in humane reactions, that is, as we were saying, much more humane than killing them.

It also has limited application.

 

[jillio]

Widow sues over pepper spray death

A combination of factors are responsible for this man's death. I guess you missed that. And law enforcement's bad judgment played the largest role.

 

[jillio]

It also has limited application.

As in?

 

[TWA]

You must have missed my "cutie pies" post

What cutie pie posts? Damn, I'm sorry I missed those!

I found your post ridiculous.

You're free to find any of my posts ridiculous (it's a mutual feeling, btw), but rather than posting some snarky happy face, state your reasons.

Ah, now here you have. That wasn't so hard, was it?

Although "bobbies" don't carry firearms The police still have departments that DO carry firearms. And even the "bobbies" carry pepper spray and batons which you complained about in another thread.

I am well aware of that. I didn't say all LEOs in the UK went without guns. At Heathrow, around every corner there is a commando with an HK-MP5. I welcome their presence since we're at, you know, an airport. I support the same thing at American airports as well. But if they're just chilling on the street corners, you're not going to see British police officers sporting revolvers. They aren't there to intimidate. They're there to be helpful. Intimidating presences of police officers is one reason these OWS protests have gotten so ugly.

As for the pepper spray and batons, I assume you mean my condemning of the police commanders sucker punch-style use of pepper spray on nonviolent protesters? My complaint was with the behavior of the cop. Not the pepper spray. Nice try of taking that one out of context. . .

As for standing around giving directions you might want to check out Crime Fighters (British version of Cops)

Cool! Can I see some naked blokes and birds running around high on meth!???

Just curious: have you ever been to Europe? For an extended amount of time?