'Open Carry' Law Contoversy: Gun Owner Cited

jillio said:
Of course it matters, Jiro. That is the whole point. You don't seem to understand that having a gun in public places where you could put others in danger is a completely irresponsible act and doesn't say much for the stability of the person toting the loaded gun around.
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again - never heard of such incident. never happened. please do provide a link to news story that says otherwise.
 
jillio said:
I did not say it was the castle doctrine. I was responding specifically to Jiro's misunderstanding.
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I am allowed to use self-defense against criminals if I use some kung-fu panda moves.

I am not allowed to use self-defense against criminals if I use a gun because the law is very specific about it which pretty much rendered my self-defense w/ a gun useless.
 
Jiro said:
I don't understand your question.

but I have a problem with restrictions that protect criminals from the society defending itself from criminals. I have a problem with restrictions that deter society from defending itself from criminals.

does that answer your question?
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I did not ask you to defend me from criminals. I ask the police to do that. You are taking a responsibility upon yourself that is not yours to take.

I regularly go into some of the worst neighborhoods, crime wise, in several cities. I have clients there that need home visits. I have yet to take a gun, or any other weapon with me. And I have yet to feel I was placed in a situation that threatened personal harm. I don't automatically fear for my safety just because I am in a crime ridden area. Some people just see danger everywhere, and they usually vastly overestimate the danger. Consequently, they react based on fear, and innocent people loose their lives.And I've got news for you. In the areas I go into, your gun would be taken away from you, you would be pistol whipped with it, and left laying in the street just to show you that you aren't as bad as you think you are. Your attitude is what puts you at risk.

What are you so afraid of in NJ? That Snooky will sneak up on you and bitch slap you?
 
Jiro said:
I am allowed to use self-defense against criminals if I use some kung-fu panda moves.

I am not allowed to use self-defense against criminals if I use a gun because the law is very specific about it which pretty much rendered my self-defense w/ a gun useless.
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There is a reason for that. Think. Defense rarely requires shooting to kill.
 
jillio said:
... having a gun in public places where you could put others in danger is a completely irresponsible act and doesn't say much for the stability of the person toting the loaded gun around.
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That's not what the state agencies that issue concealed carry permits say. If they thought that those permit carriers were irresponsible, they wouldn't issue them the permits.

The fact that the great majority who have permits and are carrying a concealed weapon at any given time don't use them in an irresponsible manner proves that they are stable people.
 
jillio said:
There is a reason for that. Think. Defense rarely requires shooting to kill.
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Rarely is not the same as never. In those rare cases that do require shoot-to-kill responses for defense, at least that option is available.
 
I have a shotgun at my home with Brenneke slug that is designed to kill a large animal. If I were to use it on criminal who broke into my home and all he's got was a baseball bat... I can be held criminally-liable for it for using disproportionate use of force. Technically, my self-defense is justified but it largely depends on where you live because in this county, it is extremely notorious for being anti-gun. Prosecutor can and will pursue criminal investigation against me just to make an example out of me and paint me as a crazy Rambo-wannabe.

I'll have to hire an expensive lawyer even though prosecutor knows what I did was justified but they do it anyway just to give me hard time.

Why? If NJ government can't legally keep guns out of your hands, they'll make sure to make you go broke to give it up.

Proof? Brian Aitken. New Jersey Man Serving Seven Years in Prison for Legal Guns | Bergen County Criminal Law Attorney Blog
He bought three guns, entirely legally, when he was living in Colorado and brought them back to New Jersey with him when he moved home to be closer to his son. To make sure he had his i’s dotted and t’s crossed, he called New Jersey police for guidance on how to transport them. He had the guns in the trunk of his car, unloaded and safely locked in a case, and was allegedly en route to his new home in Hoboken when he got a call from New Jersey police asking him to drive to his mother’s home.
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Brian is protected by federal law regarding transporting guns between states however the judge forbade anyone from mentioning about this federal law in court and refused to provide information about this to jury as per request by jury several times. so the jury had no choice but to find him guilty even though jury knows very well that Brian was innocent.

As the result - Governor Christie commuted Brian's sentence and refused to reappoint that judge.
 
jillio said:
I did not ask you to defend me from criminals. I ask the police to do that. You are taking a responsibility upon yourself that is not yours to take.
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huh? why would you say such silly thing? why would I get involved in something that doesn't involve me? you should be calling 911, not me. I'm not a police nor a vigilante. It's your problem, not my problem.

jillio said:
I regularly go into some of the worst neighborhoods, crime wise, in several cities. I have clients there that need home visits. I have yet to take a gun, or any other weapon with me. And I have yet to feel I was placed in a situation that threatened personal harm. I don't automatically fear for my safety just because I am in a crime ridden area.
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that's fine. you have a choice to carry it or not. I don't. You don't see anything wrong with that?

jillio said:
Some people just see danger everywhere, and they usually vastly overestimate the danger. Consequently, they react based on fear, and innocent people loose their lives.And I've got news for you. In the areas I go into, your gun would be taken away from you, you would be pistol whipped with it, and left laying in the street just to show you that you aren't as bad as you think you are. Your attitude is what puts you at risk.
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that only happens in movies, not reality.

jillio said:
What are you so afraid of in NJ? That Snooky will sneak up on you and bitch slap you?
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Does it matter? I should have that rights anytime, anywhere but it doesn't mean I will pack a heat to grocery or when I meet Snookie. So why are you so afraid about a law-abiding citizen carrying a gun? You live in a gun-friendly state and nothing happened to you.

This is comical. You've stated your stance in gay marriage thread that people have NO business in telling people what to do. And yet.... you're in this thread, telling me what to do and what not to do.

:hmm:
 
Reba said:
That's not what the state agencies that issue concealed carry permits say. If they thought that those permit carriers were irresponsible, they wouldn't issue them the permits.

The fact that the great majority who have permits and are carrying a concealed weapon at any given time don't use them in an irresponsible manner proves that they are stable people.
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I guess according to what I understand jillio is saying, everyone carrying a gun in AZ is putting everyone else in danger and being irresponsible. :giggle:
 
jillio said:
...In the areas I go into, your gun would be taken away from you, you would be pistol whipped with it, and left laying in the street just to show you that you aren't as bad as you think you are....
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So, there are violent attacks that occur in those neighborhoods?

If Jiro was carrying his weapon concealed, how would the attacker know that Jiro had a gun that he could take and use for pistol whipping?

Your hypothetical scenario doesn't make sense.
 
jillio said:
There is a reason for that. Think. Defense rarely requires shooting to kill.
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there's a reason for Castle Doctrine. It deters criminals from hurting people.
 
Reba said:
That's not what the state agencies that issue concealed carry permits say. If they thought that those permit carriers were irresponsible, they wouldn't issue them the permits.

The fact that the great majority who have permits and are carrying a concealed weapon at any given time don't use them in an irresponsible manner proves that they are stable people.
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Yeah, and all background checks have predictive validity, too.:P

Got any stats on that?
 
Jiro said:
there's a reason for Castle Doctrine. It deters criminals from hurting people.
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Links, please. Stats, please. All it does is give the voters a false sense of being in control.
 
jillio said:
Links, please. Stats, please. All it does is give the voters a false sense of being in control.
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over 45 states have it. that speaks with volumes.
 
Reba said:
So, there are violent attacks that occur in those neighborhoods?

If Jiro was carrying his weapon concealed, how would the attacker know that Jiro had a gun that he could take and use for pistol whipping?

Your hypothetical scenario doesn't make sense.
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Gee, I don't know. Would you consider shootings and gang activity to be violent?

Makes perfect sense to me. It wasn't hypothetical. Like I said, attitude portrays what others see.
 
Jiro said:
huh? why would you say such silly thing? why would I get involved in something that doesn't involve me? you should be calling 911, not me. I'm not a police nor a vigilante. It's your problem, not my problem.


that's fine. you have a choice to carry it or not. I don't. You don't see anything wrong with that?


that only happens in movies, not reality.


Does it matter? I should have that rights anytime, anywhere but it doesn't mean I will pack a heat to grocery or when I meet Snookie. So why are you so afraid about a law-abiding citizen carrying a gun? You live in a gun-friendly state and nothing happened to you.

This is comical. You've stated your stance in gay marriage thread that people have NO business in telling people what to do. And yet.... you're in this thread, telling me what to do and what not to do.

:hmm:
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Yeah, it matters. It speaks volumes as to whether you see threat when no threat has been displayed. And anyone operating on that kind of hypervigilance and fear is liable to do something stupid with that loaded gun.
 
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