Obama dumps Netanyahu

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Does Geneva Convention even matter to a stateless organization?

 

[kokonut]

That's was the whole point.

 

[Steinhauer]

Why the fuck do you keep bringing up what the terrorists do? That's a red herring. They are not our allies. We're talking about Israel here and their violations of human rights and crimes against humanity, not to mention our own culpability by supporting them. Yes, I see what you're insinuating: that because terrorists break laws, it's okay for Israel to as well, and to a more extreme degree. Bulletproof logic there, dude.

Read post #60.

I asked the question to YOU, yet you refused to answer it. I think you were told a few things by some people and are not really sure HOW you feel about Israel. have you ever been there? Have you seen any of this stuff yourself?

Claiming "straw man" again?

It was a simple question. It isn't hard to figure out that if there were no Muslim terrorists, the Israelis would not have to resort to violent measures.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Read post #60.

I asked the question to YOU, yet you refused to answer it. I think you were told a few things by some people and are not really sure HOW you feel about Israel. have you ever been there? Have you seen any of this stuff yourself?

Claiming "straw man" again?

It was a simple question. It isn't hard to figure out that if there were no Muslim terrorists, the Israelis would not have to resort to violent measures.

Chicken and the egg question.

if Israelis haven't permitted illegal settlement of the Gaza and the West Banks, and treat the Palestineans without pidgeon-holing them into ghettos, then there wouldn't be terrorists in the first place.

Like people have stated, two wrongs do not make a right.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIo6lyP9tTE[/ame]

 

[Steinhauer]

The settlements in the West Bank is part of territory the Muslims claim is "theirs" ever since 1967 during the 6 day war.

Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So, out of nowhere, and unprovoked, Israel was attacked by 9 arab states.

Israel won and gained territory, and now the losers can only whine about getting it back.

Sorry, no chicken and egg story here.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

The settlements in the West Bank is part of territory the Muslims claim is "theirs" ever since 1967 during the 6 day war.

Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So, out of nowhere, and unprovoked, Israel was attacked by 9 arab states.

Israel won and gained territory, and now the losers can only whine about getting it back.

Sorry, no chicken and egg story here.

So you're denying the treatment of Arabs as second-class WITHIN Israel's border?

Ghettos such as Lodz are not even remotely close to the Bank or the Strip, yet Israeli Arabs still have resentments toward Israeli Jews because they are forced to live in ghettos, then those ghettos get torn down for 'illegal settlement' reasons. Every time you treat someone like a second-class citizen, the more likely they will sympathize with a terrorist organization.

Must I remind you that a vast majority of Irish-Americans supported the IRA because a lot of Irish felt like they were treated as second-class by the British? So why can't you see the Israeli Arabs' side of the story, if not the Palestinian Arabs?

So if you can't see the chicken and the egg analogy here, you're dumb as a brick.

 

[TWA]

The settlements in the West Bank is part of territory the Muslims claim is "theirs" ever since 1967 during the 6 day war.

Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So, out of nowhere, and unprovoked, Israel was attacked by 9 arab states.

Israel won and gained territory, and now the losers can only whine about getting it back.

Sorry, no chicken and egg story here.

You have a serious problem with associating regimes and government with their unarmed and uninvolved civilians. So every Palestinian and Lebanese death at the hands of Israeli aggression is justified because they are ruled by despots who have in turned committed acts of aggression against Israel?

Makes sense that you wouldn't see Israel as a bully. You probably are still one of those last holdouts thinking our invasion of Iraq was justified. :roll:

WTF question are you talking about? If I haven't answered one of your questions, its because I refuse to engage the sort of dirty rhetoric you use.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

You have a serious problem with associating regimes and government with their unarmed and uninvolved civilians. So every Palestinian and Lebanese death at the hands of Israeli aggression is justified because they are ruled by despots who have in turned committed acts of aggression against Israel?

Makes sense that you wouldn't see Israel as a bully. You probably are still one of those last holdouts thinking our invasion of Iraq was justified. :roll:

WTF question are you talking about? If I haven't answered one of your questions, its because I refuse to engage the sort of dirty rhetoric you use.

You know what I find funny... right in his source...

On June 5, 1967, Israel launched a preemptive attack on Egypt.[22] The Arab countries denied planning to attack Israel, and asserted that Israel's strike was not preemptive but an unwarranted and illegal act of aggression.[23] Jordan, which had signed a mutual defence treaty with Egypt on May 30, then attacked western Jerusalem and Netanya.[24][25][26]

... in response to Egypt's militarization of the Sinai.

Unprovoked, out of nowhere, my ass.

 

[Tousi]

People here should be a little more cordial.

 

[TXgolfer]

You have a serious problem with associating regimes and government with their unarmed and uninvolved civilians. So every Palestinian and Lebanese death at the hands of Israeli aggression is justified because they are ruled by despots who have in turned committed acts of aggression against Israel?

Makes sense that you wouldn't see Israel as a bully. You probably are still one of those last holdouts thinking our invasion of Iraq was justified. :roll:

WTF question are you talking about? If I haven't answered one of your questions, its because I refuse to engage the sort of dirty rhetoric you use.

Off topic....But the invasion of Iraq was justified....WMD or not. Was it necessary

 

[TXgolfer]

People here should be a little more cordial.

Yup

 

[Banjo]

Off topic....But the invasion of Iraq was justified....WMD or not. Was it necessary

Americans were led to believe that Iraq was a threat to the USA. They weren't there to liberate the people of Iraq. If that was the case, then why aren't they liberating countries like North Korea, Sudan (Darfur) and more?

Why Iraq?

A war cannot be justified if lies and faulty information were used to draw support in the first place.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Let not forget...

In their meeting Mr Obama set out expectations that Israel was to satisfy if it wanted to end the crisis, Israeli sources said. These included an extension of the freeze on Jewish settlement growth beyond the ten-month deadline next September, an end to building projects in east Jerusalem and a withdrawal of Israeli forces to positions held before the second intifada in September 2000.

Now... East Jerusalem is within Israeli border. Most of the terrorist activities you speak of are outside of the border-- on the Gaza and the Banks.

East Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Following the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, Jerusalem was divided into two parts—the western portion, populated primarily by Jews, came under Israeli rule, while the eastern portion, populated mainly by Arabs, came under Jordanian rule. Arabs living in such western Jerusalem neighbourhoods as Katamon or Malha were forced to leave; the same fate befell Jews in the eastern areas, including the Old City and Silwan.

Remember the chicken and the egg? Force the Arabs out of their neighbourhoods, they will resent and turn to terrorism. Terrorism spread fear among Israelis. Israelis support the expansion of Israeli settlers. More Arabs become dislocated... then they turn to terrorism and so on and so on. It's a cycle that can't be stopped until Israel decides to stop displacing Israeli-Arabs and Palestinian-Arabs.

Israel settlements:

Israeli settlement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
International law and Israeli settlements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The consensus view of the international community is that the building of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, is illegal under international law, although Israel disputes this.[1][2][3][4] This view is largely based on UN Security council resolutions, including resolutions 446, 452, 465, 471 and 476 which find the settlements to be illegal under the Fourth Geneva Convention.[5] The legal arm of the UN, the International Court of Justice, has found the settlements to be illegal under international law.[6]

Now the settlements got nothing to do with the terrorists. Okay? just Israeli people moving in and displacing settled Arab citizens.

Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Section III. Occupied territories
Articles 47-78 impose substantial obligations on occupying powers. As well as numerous provisions for the general welfare of the inhabitants of an occupied territory, an occupier may not forcibly deport protected persons, or deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into occupied territory (Art.49).

Article 33. No protected person may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.
Pillage is prohibited.
Reprisals against protected persons and their property are prohibited.

 

[Jiro]

Americans were led to believe that Iraq was a threat to the USA. They weren't there to liberate the people of Iraq. If that was the case, then why aren't they liberating countries like North Korea, Sudan (Darfur) and more?

Why Iraq?

oil. an American puppet in Middle East. ssshhh

 

[TXgolfer]

Americans were led to believe that Iraq was a threat to the USA. They weren't there to liberate the people of Iraq. If that was the case, then why aren't they liberating countries like North Korea, Sudan (Darfur) and more?

Why Iraq?

A war cannot be justified if lies and faulty information were used to draw support in the first place.

I disagree, I believe the justification came before any claims......oh well

 

[Banjo]

I disagree, I believe the justification came before any claims......oh well

How was it justified?

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

How was it justified?

Saddam did not listen to his master during the Gulf War...

Then he didn't listen to master again thereon-after...

Removal of a puppet government that wouldn't heed when it's told to.

 

[TXgolfer]

Saddam did not listen to his master during the Gulf War...

Then he didn't listen to master again thereon-after...

Removal of a puppet government that wouldn't heed when it's told to.

but kinda yeah.

 

[Jiro]

Saddam did not listen to his master during the Gulf War...

Then he didn't listen to master again thereon-after...

Removal of a puppet government that wouldn't heed when it's told to.

Osama bin Laden too. bad puppet.

 

[flip]

*facepalms*

How can at least hundreds of empires be wrong?

It's know we know Jesus actually existed-- because the Greeks and Romans wrote about him. It's also how we know the Jews have be scattered around the globe because of the Roman invasions of the Near East.

We know the events surrounding Moses in the Exodus occured because the Egyptians have similar records. We know Noah's Ark could had been true because of Epic of Giglamesh and various Babylonian civilizations have similar accounts.

Ancient history requires cross-references between many authors, many civilizations and many sources to paint an accurate picture. The problem with Biblical history is, you're only relying on one source. Luckily, bits and pieces of it can be confirmed through other civilizations' record-keeping.

But because people argue whether or not someone's interpretation of a religion is right or wrong is the reason why AD disallows religious discussions because you're basically telling that person the core of their belief may not be right-- and that is very insulting.

Are you sure of this?

I don't want to insult some people here or talk religion, but we have a branch of science called history and arcehology and their findings don't support some of the arguments used to justify this war.

First, from my understanding, it's plausible that a preacher named jesus did exist, but it's not proved.

It's not plausible that the exodus happened. Most importantly, the story as it's described in the bible have too many flaws. We only know of a note of a group of settlers that moved out of egypt some thousands years ago, but it's very little likely that they was a part of the exodus in the bible. The consensus among historians and archelologist is that exodus is a myth. Even religous historians seems to acknowledge this.

Regarding Noah's Ark, it's records of a flood in other civilizations, and also geological evidence of floods, but that's all.

Also, historians today doubt that most jews never left Israel/palestine. The "exile" described in modern times is another myth and misunderstanding. Lots of jews outside Israel orgins from proselytes that never have lived in Israel or from mixed marriages. This is the consensus among scholars at the university of Tel Aviv.

Many people labeled "arabs" in palestine got bloodlines to people living in Judah and the kingdom of Israel. It wasn't only pagans that converted to Islam, but christians and jews, too. Muslims didn't have to pay taxes in muslim regions, speeding up the conversions. The muslims didn't emerge from nowhere in the desert after all, and Yemen had a jewish kingdom before the region was taken over by muslims.

Those in that area who stayed jews, or became jews later make up the jews we know as sephardic today, though it's next to impossible to label jews as a own race and most people in that area are relatives with each other if one goes really far back in the history. So who can really claim Israel belong to them?

The strict jewish monotheism perhaps developed after the fall of the kingdoms of Judah and Israel. It's archelogical evidence that various gods was worshiped in both kingdoms. Even kings and queens worshipped their own different gods.

The "lost land" was to many jews in earlier times a kingdom they imagined they would live in after the return of the messiah, and a eternal search of something better. We also have to rememeber that this stuff was written during the babylon occupation. It's in modern times this has turned into justifying war in Israel(US military base?) at the scale we are seeing now.

People should take both the Palestine and Israeli propaganda with a big grain of salt, IMHO.