Michael Jackson gravely ill: reports

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Britney Spears is surrounded by people who are with her probably everyday. She is very visibly exposed to public. Her wild behaviors and such are well publicized in news, magazines, tabloid, etc. for months and years. I am very surprised that nobody took any action when she exhibited these kind of behavior/symptom... especially while she has children. She clearly endangered her own children.

one of the reasons why people did not take action sooner is because 1. the general public isn't familar or comfortable enough with mental illness to seek help for an individual who needs it and 2.) almost everyone diagnosed with bipolar are not properly diagnosed with the illness for an average of 10 years between the first symptoms of the disorder appearing and correct diagnosis. in fact, this was true in my case. i was originally diagnosed as having mdd (major depressive disorder) in my early 20s even though i clearly exhibited symptoms of bipolar (which my tdoc and pdoc concur with). the same can be said for other types of mental illness.

Hear Again - you said "as long as spears takes her meds on daily basis and does not experience a severe maniac episode that causes psychosis...." That is hardly reassuring considering that she has a high-stress career and there is very likelihood chance that she would experience a severe maniac episode again and again and again. I'm glad K-Fed recognized this earlier and took immediate action to regain full custody of the children at family court. I don't think Britney Spears should have the primary custody of her children even though if her bipolar disorder is under control by medications. With the lifestyle she's having, she's a ticking bomb.

i strongly disgree. your statement makes a sweeping (and unfair) generalization that any woman with bipolar shouldn't have children. in case you weren't aware, there are *many* women with bipolar who are excellent parents. in fact, some of them are better parents than those who do not have mental illness.

If she cares about her children and if she has any sane, caring, considerate thought for her own children's well-being... she should let K-Fed have a primary custody of their children until she is done with career.

i happen to disagree. as long as spears' bipolar disorder is properly controlled by meds, there should be *no* reason why she shouldn't be allowed to have custody of her children.

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by the way, unless one is unmedicated, it is possible that a person can have only one manic episode during their lifetime and never experience another. length of time between and severity of manic episodes varies from one person to the next.

 

[Jiro]

one of the reasons why people did not take action sooner is because 1. the general public isn't familar or comfortable enough with mental illness to seek help for an individual who needs it and 2.) almost everyone diagnosed with bipolar are not properly diagnosed with the illness for an average of 10 years between the first symptoms of the disorder appearing and correct diagnosis. in fact, this was true in my case. i was originally diagnosed as having mdd (major depressive disorder) in my early 20s even though i clearly exhibited symptoms of bipolar (which my tdoc and pdoc concur with). the same can be said for other types of mental illness.

thing is - she is so well-publicized that any psychiatrists, experts, child social service, anybody in whole USA should be able to easily see this. I'm just surprised that nobody took IMMEDIATE action not just because of her wild behaviors at party but because of her children's well-beings. She clearly endangered her children's well-beings and nobody did anything? I'm glad K-Fed fought to retake the children.

i strongly disgree. your statement makes a sweeping (and unfair) generalization that any woman with bipolar shouldn't have children. in case you weren't aware, there are *many* women with bipolar who are excellent parents. in fact, some of them are better parents than those who do not have mental illness.

i happen to disagree. as long as spears' bipolar disorder is properly controlled by meds, there should be *no* reason why she shouldn't be allowed to have custody of her children.

I'm not talking about many women with bipolar. You are far far far more qualified than Britney Spears in caring for children and I can trust you to babysit my kids but not Britney Spears. I'm specifically talking about Britney Spears because she's a celebrity with a high-stress career who travel all over because of this - she is more likely to be inconsistent with medication and follow-up. That's why I said she may regain a full custody of children if she's done with the career.

 

[Jiro]

by the way, unless one is unmedicated, it is possible that a person can have only one manic episode during their lifetime and never experience another. length of time between and severity of manic episodes varies from one person to the next.

yes but this is Britney Spear. With high-stress career... she's more likely to experience it again and she probably did a few times.

 

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yes but this is Britney Spear. With high-stress career... she's more likely to experience it again and she probably did a few times.

true, but if she is medicated (and better yet also seeks therapy), this minimizes her chances of having another manic episode.

 

[Berry]

Hear Again,

I'm going to have to go into my asparagus mode and think for a bit, plus I have to play soccer dad for a bit.

 

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thing is - she is so well-publicized that any psychiatrists, experts, child social service, anybody in whole USA should be able to easily see this. I'm just surprised that nobody took IMMEDIATE action not just because of her wild behaviors at party but because of her children's well-beings. She clearly endangered her children's well-beings and nobody did anything? I'm glad K-Fed fought to retake the children.

again, in most cases of bipolar, people remain undiagnosed for 10 years between onset of primary symptoms and proper diagnosis. it's easy to say that someone should have recognized the signs, but that just doesn't happen for the majority of people who have bipolar (or other types of mental illness). someone should have recognized the signs that i exhibited in my early 20s, (since i also became drunk, out of control, angry, severely depressed and manic) but no one did.

I'm not talking about many women with bipolar. You are far far far more qualified than Britney Spears in caring for children and I can trust you to babysit my kids but not Britney Spears. I'm specifically talking about Britney Spears because she's a celebrity with a high-stress career who travel all over because of this - she is more likely to be inconsistent with medication and follow-up. That's why I said she may regain a full custody of children if she's done with the career.

only *until* it has been proven that spears has been inconsistent with taking her meds should her children be removed from her custody.

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[Hear Again]

Hear Again,

I'm going to have to go into my asparagus mode and think for a bit, plus I have to play soccer dad for a bit.

okay. if you have any more thoughts to add, i'd be interested in hearing them.

 

[Jiro]

true, but if she is medicated (and better yet also seeks therapy), this minimizes her chances of having another manic episode.

I don't see how she can follow up on therapy regularly and such since she travels all over and her schedule is very busy. That's the price of being a highly-charged, successful celebrity and that's why a lot of them succumb to destructive behaviors later on - drinking, drug, etc.

now here's another thought. Lot of celebrities have a personal problems and a handful of them especially the famous, the most successful do come out to share their experiences and to raise the public awareness. For example -

Christina Applegate with her breast cancer
Brooke Shield with her postpartum depression
Bob Dole with his erectile dysfunction
and many more to list....

I don't see Britney Spears doing that and she's certainly not taking an extended period of time-out to deal with it. Immediately after her stay at clinic/rehab - she went off to make couple more record-hit albums. Like you said - bipolar disorder is commonly misunderstood & misdiagnosed and not well-understood by public. Here's an interesting comment I just read. The context of the paragraph below is about David Duchovny's sex addiction but I feel it's also related to Britney Spears' case -

"The concept of sexual addiction is a controversial one and that's because it is difficult to define," said Dr. Steve Eichel, an addiction specialist who works in Delaware.

"There are a lot of people who are critical of the concept because we live in a society that tends to over medicalize and which makes every behavior, which deviates from the norm, an addiction or a disorder," Eichel said.

Mind you - I'm not bashing people with bipolar. This is strictly limited to Britney Spears.

 

[Hear Again]

I don't see how she can follow up on therapy regularly and such since she travels all over and her schedule is very busy. That's the price of being a highly-charged, successful celebrity and that's why a lot of them succumb to destructive behaviors later on - drinking, drug, etc.

given the amont of money spears makes, there's no reason why she can't pay a therapist to travel with her on the road. she could also receive psychiatric care on a monthly basis through the same means.

now here's another thought. Lot of celebrities have a personal problems and a handful of them especially the famous, the most successful do come out to share their experiences and to raise the public awareness. For example -

Christina Applegate with her breast cancer
Brooke Shield with her postpartum depression
Bob Dole with her erectile dysfunction
and many more to list....

"bob dole and her erectile dysfunction?" i think you mean "his." as for spears and her bipolar, it would be great if she reached a point where she could raise public awareness about her illness, but that may take some time since it does take awhile for people diagnosed with this disorder to come to terms with their diagnosis.

I don't see Britney Spears doing that and she's certainly not taking an extended period of time-out to deal with it. Immediately after her stay at clinic/rehab - she went off to make couple more record-hit albums. Like you said - bipolar disorder is commonly misunderstood & misdiagnosed and not well-understood by public. Here's an interesting comment I just read. The context of the paragraph below is about David Duchovny's sex addiction but I feel it's also related to Britney Spears' case -



Mind you - I'm not bashing people with bipolar. This is strictly limited to Britney Spears.

unfortunately, some people with bipolar are in denial of the illness. when i was first diagnosed 2 years ago, it took me over a year to fully accept my diagnosis. i'm also not ashamed to admit that i've had problems in the past with being med-compliant since there have been times where i've felt "normal" or extremely happy (manic) and think i don't have bipolar. usually though it isn't long before mania or depression hits with a vengeance that i realize i *do* in fact have this disorder. after those experiences, i'm now 100% med-compliant.

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Quote:
"The concept of sexual addiction is a controversial one and that's because it is difficult to define," said Dr. Steve Eichel, an addiction specialist who works in Delaware.

"There are a lot of people who are critical of the concept because we live in a society that tends to over medicalize and which makes every behavior, which deviates from the norm, an addiction or a disorder," Eichel said.

i think it's far too easy for people to think that we excuse all kinds of behavior by diagnosing someone with a mental illness -- especially those who do not have personal experience with the former. if someone is diagnosed with a mental illness or disorder, it usually means that their quality of life and daily functioning is seriously being affected and/or impaired in some way.

 

[Jiro]

given the amont of money spears makes, there's no reason why she can't pay to have a therapist travel with her on the road. she could also receive psychiatric care on a monthly basis through the same means.

I certainly hope she does that.

"bob dole and her erectile dysfunction?" i think you mean "his." as for spears and her bipolar, it would be great if she reached a point where she could raise public awareness about her illness, but that may take some time since it does take awhile for people diagnosed with this disorder to come to terms with their diagnosis.

I just corrected my post.

Here are few paragraphs I found from various sites -

Castro said that Spears has been an eruption waiting to happen as her personal life has continued to spiral out of control. The slide seemed to have accelerated when she lost custody of her children.

“Apparently, Britney was a ticking time bomb,” Castro said. “She was sort of giving these airs that she was OK with this whole custody thing — being very cool about it, going out and about — but, in fact, she snapped. Our sources tell us that on the day they came over to take the kids away, she banged her head against the wall and went completely mental and finally just had it.”

Jones said she needs real help, not grand gestures by celebrities.

“Somebody’s got to step in, and it can’t be a television psychologist,” she said in a barely veiled shot at Dr. Phil. “It has to be somebody who’s going to take care of her.”

Whether all of this is “good” or not, I can’t yet say. If it leads more people to learn more about bipolar disorder (and mental illness in general), I’d say it is helpful. In a celebrity-driven society (as we seem to increasingly be), it may take the famous people to help others understand the symptoms and impact of some of these disorders.

What’s to become of Britney now? After losing the custody battle, for the moment, to ex-husband Kevin Federline, she is likely suffering from some feelings of loss and grief. Add on top of that the media circus that is following her around L.A., and it’s unlikely she’s going to find much peace unless she removes herself completely from the Hollywood scene, and take a month or two off someplace remote and therapeutic.

“Her erratic behavior has moved into bipolar disorder,” surmises psychologist Dr. Robert Butterworth, who has not treated Spears, 25.

“Your energy level and emotions alternate between highs and lows, and that seems to have happened here.”

Psychologist Robi Ludwig, who also hasn’t treated her, agrees – to a point.

“It seems that Britney has a mood disorder,” she says, acknowledging that the singer’s behavior is “self-destructive, erratic and dramatic,” which could also be symptomatic of drug and alcohol abuse.

She added: "She strikes me as someone going through a delayed adolescence."

Dr. Kirschner says bipolar disorder "usually starts in young adulthood from age 18 through early twenties. Up until that point, the person appears to be pretty normal, but it's like a ticking bomb."

She adds: "When a person has this kind of problem, it's very hard for them to be a good parent. The main thing is for the person to go through treatment and recover ... But they generally have to hit bottom in order to turn around and recover. If the person is laughing wildly as they're taken away in the ambulance, that does not indicate that there's much connection with the consequences of their behavior."

A close family friend says "the tragic thing is that Britney loves her children and would never knowingly put them in harms way. Her mental instability is getting in the way of her making proper judgment and it's extremely unfortunate."

there are lot of maybes and sketchy details of her actual medical condition. I certainly hope she will take an extended period of time away from this lifestyle to recover and to cope with it. After that... I do certainly hope she will come forward to talk show like Oprah or Barbara Walters and talk about it in great details.

I don't know what's more important for her - being in top 5 music or her children.

 

[Hear Again]

Quote:
Castro said that Spears has been an eruption waiting to happen as her personal life has continued to spiral out of control. The slide seemed to have accelerated when she lost custody of her children.

“Apparently, Britney was a ticking time bomb,” Castro said. “She was sort of giving these airs that she was OK with this whole custody thing — being very cool about it, going out and about — but, in fact, she snapped. Our sources tell us that on the day they came over to take the kids away, she banged her head against the wall and went completely mental and finally just had it.”

Jones said she needs real help, not grand gestures by celebrities.

“Somebody’s got to step in, and it can’t be a television psychologist,” she said in a barely veiled shot at Dr. Phil. “It has to be somebody who’s going to take care of her.”

such is usually the case for people who have bipolar. i was also a ticking time bomb in my early 20s. cross me when i'm towards the end of a manic episode (even today) and you'll be sorry you did. i don't mention that as a threat; only to explain what kind of a negative impact bipolar can have on people's emotions. as for spears and dr. phil, i think that's plain ridiculous and agree that she needs help from a fully qualifed *psychiatrist*.

 

[Hear Again]

Dr. Kirschner says bipolar disorder "usually starts in young adulthood from age 18 through early twenties. Up until that point, the person appears to be pretty normal, but it's like a ticking bomb."

i couldn't agree more.

She adds: "When a person has this kind of problem, it's very hard for them to be a good parent. The main thing is for the person to go through treatment and recover ... But they generally have to hit bottom in order to turn around and recover. If the person is laughing wildly as they're taken away in the ambulance, that does not indicate that there's much connection with the consequences of their behavior."

it may be very difficult for people with bipolar to be good parents, but it's not impossible. however, i do agree that a person needs to hit rock bottom before they realize there is a problem. one of the hallmark signs of mania is denial. when i had my first manic/psychotic episode 2 years ago, my family begged me to get help, but i denied anything was wrong. they had to call 911 and have 6 people literally drag me into the hospital before i could receive help.

A close family friend says "the tragic thing is that Britney loves her children and would never knowingly put them in harms way. Her mental instability is getting in the way of her making proper judgment and it's extremely unfortunate."

agreed. hopefully with proper meds, spears can be a responsible, loving parent.

 

[Jiro]

one of the hallmark signs of mania is denial. when i had my first manic/psychotic episode 2 years ago, my family begged me to get help, but i denied anything was wrong. they had to call 911 and have 6 people literally drag me into the hospital before i could receive help.

ssssshhhiiiiieettttttttt. and look at you now. an amazing recovery from only 2 years ago and you didn't have millions of dollars to hire best psychiatrists or to go to some expensive private rehab.

makes u wonder, eh?

 

[Jiro]

such is usually the case for people who have bipolar. i was also a ticking time bomb in my early 20s. cross me when i'm towards the end of a manic episode (even today) and you'll be sorry you did. i don't mention that as a threat; only to explain what kind of a negative impact bipolar can have on people's emotions. as for spears and dr. phil, i think that's plain ridiculous and agree that she needs help from a fully qualifed *psychiatrist.*

don't worry - you are not threatening me... you are giving me a fair warning. You have educated me quite well on this issue.. hell - I think i'm even more qualified than Dr. Phil!!

Some experts said delayed adolescent.... or postpartum depression... or bipolar... or drug/alcohol abuse.... I guess the best we can do is wait and see the truth behind the whole thing.

 

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ssssshhhiiiiieettttttttt. and look at you now. an amazing recovery from only 2 years ago and you didn't have millions of dollars to hire best psychiatrists or to go to some expensive private rehab.

makes u wonder, eh?

well, i'm not "recovered" from my bipolar since there is no cure. however, if you mean that i've learned how to accept and cope with my illness, you're exactly right.

some of the best psychiatrists in the world don't know what the h*ll they are doing. take my last pdoc for example. he had years of experience, but did absolutely *nothing* for me. everytime i came into his office and told him i was rapid cycling, he told me to come back in 3 months. i'm now seeing a *wonderful* pdoc who specializes in addiction (since they tend to be more compassionate and willing to find a med treatment that works). after i told him how much i've been struggling with my rapid cycling over the past year and a half, he immediately made some changes and will continue to do so until i've reached the point where my cycling is reduced and i feel as "normal" as i possibly can. i hope spears is fortunate enough to receive the same kind of treatment.

 

[Byrdie714]

true, but if she is medicated (and better yet also seeks therapy), this minimizes her chances of having another manic episode.

Not necessairly as there has been situations where an individual that suffers from bi-polar and is on medication do lash out and attack.

 

[Berry]

Rather than rehash, or do quote unquotes, lets see if we can pinpoint exactly where our differences lay.

You are speaking from the point of view of someone who has been able to become a person you wish to be through current medical practice. You further believe others can and should be helped the same way.

I am speaking from the point of view of someone who is a student of history and has been horrified at what medical and mental practitioners have done in the past and sees the potential for them doing the sames things again.

You believe you understand many of the things I say based on similar arguments you have had in the past. I feel some of these are unfair misinterpretations of what I mean.

The field of medicine and mental health does not have a sterling history. Once a treatment has become profitable and/or popular diagnosis of the “disorder” tends to become prolific, and better treatments are no longer sought after – What is sought after is legal measures to force compliance on those who resist treatment. Soon more and more people are redefined as falling into the definition of people who need treatment.

You believe people with bipolar disorder should be diagnosed and treated.

I believe we should tread carefully, make our decisions wisely, not be too trusting in authority, and leave as much room as possible for freedom of choice.

I don't know what's more important for her - being in top 5 music or her children.

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Most people would believe her children “should” be the most important thing in her life, and this puts a lot of pressure on her if they are not.

What would happen to her career if she stood up one day and announced that even though she loves her children they come in second to her being in the top 5?

 

[Byrdie714]

Jiro's quote sums it up:

"There are a lot of people who are critical of the concept because we live in a society that tends to over medicalize and which makes every behavior, which deviates from the norm, an addiction or a disorder," Eichel said.

Next thing you know--"professionals" will come on AD and labels us AD addicts and prescribe medication for us!