Michael Jackson gravely ill: reports

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So she is bi-polar? So what. Still doesn't excuse one for their behavior, bipolar or not.
 
Hear Again said:
spears was diagnosed by a pychiatrist and as long as she fits the diagnosis of bipolar under the DSM, it doesn't matter what you or others think about her behavior. i've had bipolar for 2 years and based on the symptoms spears exhibited, it is clear that she was manic and her erratic behavior was a result of this. if you or others think she is crazy or an attention whore, so be it, but i happen to disagree.
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And what if she were simply acting from a different context?

Some of the things she has been slammed hard for would not raise an eyebrow in another culture. Is a two year old child, who in some cultures is still nursing, going to be traumatized for life from being in the presence of a nude woman, mother or not?

What should Galileo have done?
 
And just because one has a medical condition or not--still doesn't excuse them for their actions--especially that of endangerment.
 
Hear Again said:
by the way, bipolar is a life-long illness. spears was not "cured" of her bipolar since there is no cure for this disorder. spears did not recover miraculously. she was released from the hospital because she did not obey the orders of her psychiatrist to stay inpatient until she was stabilized. furthermore, mood stabilizers (which are prescribed for bipolar) usually take a few days to a week to work, so i can see where it's entirely possible that spears left the hospital smiling to the cameras. it's also possible that her meds did not have enough time to work effectively and she was still manic.

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Problem is: Once she is "cured" of her "problem" and she becomes "normal" will she also become average as well?

Do we trade a bipolar Britney for a mediocre woman and say the world is better off without that much talent in it?
 
Berry said:
Problem is: Once she is "cured" of her "problem" and she becomes "normal" will she also become average as well?

Do we trade a bipolar Britney for a mediocre woman and say the world is better off without that much talent in it?
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I don't think that's of concern to us.

One is never "cured" of bipolar disorder. The illness is managed with medication and therapy. It is my hope that Britney stays on her medication and remains stable. Life while symptomatic, is frankly, NO life. In fact, many people end up committing suicide because the disease can be hell on Earth if it is not controlled. I don't wish that for Britney (or anyone, for that matter).
 
Oceanbreeze said:
I don't think that's of concern to us.

One is never "cured" of bipolar disorder. The illness is managed with medication and therapy. It is my hope that Britney stays on her medication and remains stable. Life while symptomatic, is frankly, NO life. In fact, many people end up committing suicide because the disease can be hell on Earth if it is not controlled. I don't wish that for Britney (or anyone, for that matter).
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exactly. i can tell you from my own personal experience of having rapid cycling bipolar that being symptomatic sucks.
 
Berry said:
Problem is: Once she is "cured" of her "problem" and she becomes "normal" will she also become average as well?
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there is currently no cure for bipolar disorder. as ocean said, the only treatment protocol are meds and therapy.

why put the word problem in quotes? do you feel the same way about me? do you think i have a "problem" just because i'm bipolar? sorry, but i don't have a "problem" -- i have a serious chronic mental illness for which there is no cure and so does spears. it would be nice of some people could start to show a little compassion and understanding instead of criticizing spears for something she can't help.
 
Byrdie714 said:
And just because one has a medical condition or not--still doesn't excuse them for their actions--especially that of endangerment.
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no one is excusing spears' behavior, but when one is manic, their judgement goes completely out the window. that's what some of you don't understand. spears didn't choose to engage in these behaviors -- they were the result of a chemical imbalance and a manic state that rendered her unable to make sound judgements.
 
Berry said:
And what if she were simply acting from a different context?
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you could ask the same question about me or anyone diagnosed with bipolar. that's one of the reasons why it's important to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist who can determine whether one's behavior is being caused by a chemical imbalance/mood disorder or other external factors.

i hope none of you end up being diagnosed with bipolar during your lifetime and have someone who doubts the fact that you have the disorder.
 
Byrdie714 said:
So she is bi-polar? So what. Still doesn't excuse one for their behavior, bipolar or not.
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again, no one is excusing spears' behavior.

however, one must understand that when a person is manic, they do not have insight or the ability to judge their own behavior.

how would you like it if you were in a manic state, did something dangerous or harmful to yourself or others and were blamed for it even though you had no recollection of what happened?
 
Hear Again said:
no one is excusing spears' behavior, but when one is manic, their judgement goes completely out the window. that's what some of you don't understand. spears didn't choose to engage in these behaviors -- they were the result of a chemical imbalance and a manic state that rendered her unable to make sound judgements.
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So if Spears goes off on a manic episode and decides to kill off her own children--we should excuse it because she is bi-polar?

Sounds to me that you are trying to justify her rationale. Whatever happend to being accountable for one's actions?

Oh that's right--we don't do that anymore. :roll:

Hear Again said:
again, no one is excusing spears' behavior.

however, one must understand that when a person is manic, they do not have insight or the ability to judge their own behavior.

how would you like it if you were in a manic state, did something dangerous or harmful to yourself or others and were blamed for it even though you had no recollection of what happened?
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Jeffrey Dahmer was a manic and he still knew what he did. Also I don't know because I am not a manic.

Hear Again said:
so do people who criticize her for something she can't help.
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No relation to her medical condition--I don't care for her music--never have, never will--bipolar or not. :roll: So I criticize her music automatically means I should belong on another planet? :roll:

*smh*
 
Hear Again said:
there is currently no cure for bipolar disorder. as ocean said, the only treatment protocol are meds and therapy.
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Nor is there any economic reason to look for a cure -- Assuming one is needed -- When once the diagnosis is made the patient is hooked for life on a regimen of drugs for which they are dependent on their doctors and the pharmaceutical companies. At a hefty profit for all, by the way.



Hear Again said:
why put the word problem in quotes? do you feel the same way about me? do you think i have a "problem" just because i'm bipolar? sorry, but i don't have a "problem" -- i have a serious chronic mental illness for which there is no cure and so does spears. it would be nice of some people could start to show a little compassion and understanding instead of criticizing spears for something she can't help.
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Pause with me for a minute. I know you are a reasonable person, I have seen it in your posts. But right now you are going down an old, familiar road, one you have been down before, probably often.

But that is not where I am at.

I put the word "problem" in quotes because I am not convinced it is the right word, and I am not convinced "who" has it; her or the public.

I am not you, nor am I Britney. I cannot judge whether you, or she, has a problem, or what it is. I can only judge whether I have a problem--And I have no problem with either you or her.

We are on a forum centered around deafness, so let us relate this directly to Deaf.


Three men, all medically deaf are told by a doctor, "You have a serious problem, but don't worry, I can cure it with a cochlear implant."

The first man says, "Being Deaf is who I am. Don't take that away from me."

The second man says, "I'm awful hard of hearing, I know, but I can get by."

Third man says, "Being Deaf is not who I am. Give me that implant."


What if someone says to the first man, "Being Deaf is inconvenient for society and you make a spectacle of yourself waving your hands in the air like that, besides we feel your deafness could endanger to your family. So we are going to take your children away."


Here is my stance:

Nothing is either / or. Everything has degrees on a line, often a circle.

The only person I ever met who never suffered an unexplained mood swing had had a lobotomy. She scared me as a child, I wasn't sure she was real. Some people's mood swings are so fast and or furious they take over the person's life and they seek to control them in some way.

I believe there are people who see their particular degree of bipolarity as part of who they are, and that often these are creative people whose source of inspiration is embedded in their "difference".

Does society have the right to step in and force them to conform to "The standards of the day"? And if so, then at what point?
 
Berry said:
Does society have the right to step in and force them to conform to "The standards of the day"? And if so, then at what point?
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Good post Berry.

To answer your question: Yes--only when they are a threat to themselves and to society as a whole.
 
Byrdie714 said:
So if Spears goes off on a manic episode and decides to kill off her own children--we should excuse it because she is bi-polar?

asking this question shows how little you understand about bipolar disorder. when someone is manic, yes, they are prone to acts of violence against oneself or others, but they do not self-consciously decide to engage in this type of behavior. as long as spears takes her meds on a daily basis and does not experience a severe manic episode that causes psychosis, there should be no concern about her harming her own children.

Sounds to me that you are trying to justify her rationale. Whatever happend to being accountable for one's actions?

Oh that's right--we don't do that anymore. :roll:

...and whatever happened to having some compassion about a mental illness one can't help? i guess we don't do that anymore either. instead, the majority of the public would rather make assumptions about a disorder they know very little or nothing about. :roll:

Jeffrey Dahmer was a manic and he still knew what he did. Also I don't know because I am not a manic.

the difference is that dahmer's murder sprees were not caused by bipolar. when someone is experiencing a manic or depressive episode and acts out violently towards another, that person does not have any recollection of what happened. also, typically people who come down from a manic high or start to feel better after a severe depressive episode show remorse for what they did. as for my question, you mean you can't put yourself in the shoes of someone who has bipolar and imagine how it would feel if someone criticized you for a behavior you couldn't help? it sounds to me like you're deliberately avoiding the question so you don't have to acknowledge the fact that manic episodes cause a person to act in ways they ordinarily wouldn't.
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Berry -

clapping.GIF
 
Hear Again said:
asking this question shows how little you understand about bipolar disorder. when someone is manic, yes, they are prone to acts of violence against oneself or others, but they do not self-consciously decide to engage in this type of behavior. as long as spears takes her meds on a daily basis and does not experience a severe manic episode that causes psychosis, there should be no concern about her harming her own children.
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Britney Spears is surrounded by people who are with her probably everyday. She is very visibly exposed to public. Her wild behaviors and such are well publicized in news, magazines, tabloid, etc. for months and years. I am very surprised that nobody took any action when she exhibited these kind of behavior/symptom... especially while she has children. She clearly endangered her own children.

Hear Again - you said "as long as spears takes her meds on daily basis and does not experience a severe maniac episode that causes psychosis...." That is hardly reassuring considering that she has a high-stress career and there is very likelihood chance that she would experience a severe maniac episode again and again and again. I'm glad K-Fed recognized this earlier and took immediate action to regain full custody of the children at family court. I don't think Britney Spears should have the primary custody of her children even though if her bipolar disorder is under control by medications. With the lifestyle she's having, she's a ticking bomb.

If she cares about her children and if she has any sane, caring, considerate thought for her own children's well-being... she should let K-Fed have a primary custody of their children until she is done with career.
 
Berry said:
Nor is there any economic reason to look for a cure -- Assuming one is needed -- When once the diagnosis is made the patient is hooked for life on a regimen of drugs for which they are dependent on their doctors and the pharmaceutical companies. At a hefty profit for all, by the way.

i hope you *never* experience bipolar or have a friend or loved one with the illness. if you did, you wouldn't be so selfish as to say that you don't think there should be a cure. as for economic reasons to find a cure, you don't think a 20% suicide rate among people with unmedicated bipolar is reason enough to find a cure? shame on you. <very mad>

Pause with me for a minute. I know you are a reasonable person, I have seen it in your posts. But right now you are going down an old, familiar road, one you have been down before, probably often.

what do you mean by "old, familiar road?" what "old, familiar road" am i traveling down right now?

I put the word "problem" in quotes because I am not convinced it is the right word, and I am not convinced "who" has it; her or the public.

fair enough.

I am not you, nor am I Britney. I cannot judge whether you, or she, has a problem, or what it is. I can only judge whether I have a problem--And I have no problem with either you or her.

good.

We are on a forum centered around deafness, so let us relate this directly to Deaf.

let's not. bipolar is altogether different from deafness. you can't compare the two. deafness does not cause one to act out involuntarily, bipolar does. furthermore, deaf people are completely aware of their acts of violence towards others (provided they aren't bipolar or schizophrenic). deafness does not impair one's judgement like bipolar does when one is manic. also, a cochlear implant has a chance to improve one's functioning while in bipolar, there are some instances of people (like myself) having a rapid cycling or treatment-resistant form of the illness where meds, therapy and ECT do not help relieve symptoms.

Here is my stance:

Nothing is either / or. Everything has degrees on a line, often a circle.

when one is manic, their behavior is most definitely either/or -- and not circular. as for bipolar behavior being linear, this is true, but only in the context of comparing hypomanic behavior to manic behavior. hypomania is a milder form of mania and therefore does not cause one to be impaired when it comes to social, vocational or educational functioning.

The only person I ever met who never suffered an unexplained mood swing had had a lobotomy. She scared me as a child, I wasn't sure she was real. Some people's mood swings are so fast and or furious they take over the person's life and they seek to control them in some way.

i know exactly what it's like to have rapid mood swings. i have what is called ultradian or ultra-ultra rapid cycling bipolar. this means that i experience severe mood swings between mania, depression and intense anger in the span of an hour. it can be *very* debilitating.

I believe there are people who see their particular degree of bipolarity as part of who they are, and that often these are creative people whose source of inspiration is embedded in their "difference".

i don't think there's anything wrong with this unless a person chooses to remain unmedicated (which is unfair to themselves and others) or deliberately induces mania for the sake of creativity. i happen to feel the same way about my bipolar. it's a part of who i am and i, too, *love* my creative peaks whenever i'm manic. it's when i do my best thinking, writing and brainstorming. by the way, i'm also one of those bipolars who *love* their manias (initially anyways before i "crash").

Does society have the right to step in and force them to conform to "The standards of the day"? And if so, then at what point?

this is where daily medication, therapy and emergency inpatient hospitalization come in. again, society cannot punish someone for a mental illness they can't help *when their manic state prevents them from knowing the difference between right and wrong*.
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