"Letting the Child Decide"

[jag]

well for once I have to agree with Jillio.........I see myself defective in one small way.........but oh so superiour in others

if I could fix it I sure would.........however as I have said before to each their own, so why does everyone on here keep bashing those with the other view point????????

no one has yet answered my question, maybe on another thread ,as to why it is ok to fix eyesight, amputated limbs or anything else you can think about but NOT deafness?????

Hi I'm just wondering if you have ever gone through testing to see if you could get a CI? Or have you decided that the risk of it causing more problems when your brain is introduced to sound it's never heard isn't worth it at this time in your life?

I do realize you're pre lingally deaf and what you could get from a CI is probably much different then what I get. Just curious.

 

[shel90]

well for once I have to agree with Jillio.........I see myself defective in one small way.........but oh so superiour in others

if I could fix it I sure would.........however as I have said before to each their own, so why does everyone on here keep bashing those with the other view point????????

no one has yet answered my question, maybe on another thread ,as to why it is ok to fix eyesight, amputated limbs or anything else you can think about but NOT deafness?????[/QUOTE]


I have no problem with people trying to fix deafness but everyone is different and how they percieve sound depends on the person. For some, it will work and for others it will not work. My big concern is the attitude is once the child gets a CI, they are hearing and dont need a visual language and then later finding out that the child isnt picking up on oral language and ends up being language delayed. That's my only issue. I dont know why people keep assuming that I am anti-CI. :roll:

Also, I know that deaf people can do just find without CIs too and some people just cant comprehend that. My brother doesn not use any listening devices and is leading a happy and successful life. Maybe that's why my view is so different from yours and others cuz I have met many successful and happy deaf people who have no desire to "fix" their deafness.

 

[jillio]

Thanks...I am so thankful for learning ASL and getting involved with the deaf community. Now, I have a good balance of both worlds and get my needs met.

And that, my friend, is what it's all about!

 

[jillio]

Ops, this was meant as an offer to Rick, not you Jillio

Guess I am getting too tired. Have a good memorial holliday all of you!!!

That's okay! I got what you intended!

 

[jillio]

well for once I have to agree with Jillio.........I see myself defective in one small way.........but oh so superiour in others

if I could fix it I sure would.........however as I have said before to each their own, so why does everyone on here keep bashing those with the other view point????????

no one has yet answered my question, maybe on another thread ,as to why it is ok to fix eyesight, amputated limbs or anything else you can think about but NOT deafness?????

I do believe I answered that one, becasue I remember referencing both my blind college roommate and a blind student I currently work with.

 

[jillio]

That is a stretch then to say that deaf people themselves are viewed as defective. It is also a very simplistic definition of a viewpoint. It is not how we view our daughter's deafness and we know even though she has a ci, she was, is and always will be deaf. There was nothing to "fix" but there were opportunities and benefits to be given.

Sorry, but you cannot fit all of us square pegs into your round holes! Always come back to the same thing with you: open your mind and be tolerant of those who have chosen a different path for their children then you have. There is no one right way to raise any child!

I would suggest that you follow your own recommendations. I would suggest that the majority of posters on this board would agree that the level of intolerance you have shown, and continue to show, far and away exceeds mine.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

these discussions are truly pointless.

if the child is NOT implanted it's because the parent decided NOT TO.


have you ever seen a 5, 6, 7, 8 year old making an appointment to and sitting alone with the dr discussung CI implantation?
because I didn't.

the PARENT decide.


chances are, most deaf parents decide NOT to, most hearing parents decide to DO.


even if the young child asks the parent to have e CI it's going like that:

"do you know what CI is? are you sure you want it done?" etc
thus effectively influencing the child's own decision.

of course the 5, 6. 7..... y. old have no way to objectively asess the situation by himself.
children simply does NOT posess enough experience and wisdom to be able to do that.

so, depending on the parent's own view on the CI the child is being subtly influenced. "letting the child decide" is such a crock.
in the end it's STILL the parent's decision.

Fuzzy

 

[shel90]

Absolutely wrong!!!

I do not recall any parent saying that deaf people cannot be happy. And from my experience and others here on the thread, I can say that this is absolutely NOT the case. I KNOW deaf people can be happy being deaf. I have met plenty here on the messageboard. (I have to admit that there's a lot of sad stories from their childhood... hence all the warnings...)

You are assuming something based on nothing. Even worse, you're assuming something even though many have said the opposite..

How would you react when I would say:
"I guess some people have a hard time believing that people are happy wearing CI.

(And please tell me this is not what you believe..)

:roll: I have already stated that in other threads about knowing successful CI users who are happy wearing CIs.. It will be ok.

 

[rick48]

I would suggest that you follow your own recommendations. I would suggest that the majority of posters on this board would agree that the level of intolerance you have shown, and continue to show, far and away exceeds mine.

My beliefs are not formed nor influenced by what "the majority of posters on this board" agree upon. If you believe that allowing parents all options, including the cochlear implant, is an intolerant position, I can live with that but I disagree with your belief. If you think that you have discovered the only way to raise a deaf child, then no, I disagree. Well, at least you have admitted that you are intolerant, that's a step.

Have a nice day!
Rick

 

[deafdyke]

as to why it is ok to fix eyesight, amputated limbs or anything else you can think about but NOT deafness?????

Ummm, I haven't heard of doctors being able to regrow amputated limbs. I also know that they cannot fix legal blindness or low vision.

 

[neecy]

these discussions are truly pointless.

if the child is NOT implanted it's because the parent decided NOT TO.


have you ever seen a 5, 6, 7, 8 year old making an appointment to and sitting alone with the dr discussung CI implantation?
because I didn't.

the PARENT decide.


chances are, most deaf parents decide NOT to, most hearing parents decide to DO.


even if the young child asks the parent to have e CI it's going like that:

"do you know what CI is? are you sure you want it done?" etc
thus effectively influencing the child's own decision.

of course the 5, 6. 7..... y. old have no way to objectively asess the situation by himself.
children simply does NOT posess enough experience and wisdom to be able to do that.

so, depending on the parent's own view on the CI the child is being subtly influenced. "letting the child decide" is such a crock.
in the end it's STILL the parent's decision.

Fuzzy

 

[Boult]

Ummm, I haven't heard of doctors being able to regrow amputated limbs. I also know that they cannot fix legal blindness or low vision.

Hello where have you been when this were happening? obviously you don't count those events.
IEEE Spectrum: Running Against The Wind
Scott Rigsby

I don't think raykat is talking about regrowing limbs... of course Human isn't like Lizard that can regrow their tail! she's talking about artificial prosthetics as CI is a prosthetics.

You know "Dancing with the Stars" ? one lady was in the show, she's one legged amputee and has a prosthetics leg.

as for vision... of course there's vision implant
vision implant - Google Search

It's happening...

Oh speaking of regrowth of limbs
Wired 11.11: Regrow Your Own
Scotsman.com News - Sci-Tech - Military scientists to study regrowth of limbs
well, they are working on that... so I ask, is it ok? oh wait we shouldn't destroy the amputee culture. :roll:

 

[Cloggy]

Article

From here...

Age at implantation and development of vocal and auditory preverbal skills in implanted deaf children

M.E. Taita, T.P. Nikolopoulosb, , and M.E. Lutmanc
aThe Ear Foundation, Nottingham, United Kingdom
bDepartment of Otorhinolaryngology, Athens University, Greece
cInstitute of Sound and Vibration Research, University of Southampton, United Kingdom
Received 13 September 2006; revised 16 December 2006; accepted 18 December 2006. Available online 18 January 2007.





Summary

Background

Preverbal vocal and auditory skills are essential precursors of spoken language development and they have been shown previously to predict later speech perception and production outcomes in young implanted deaf children.

Objectives

To assess the effect of age at implantation on the development of vocal and auditory preverbal skills in implanted children.

Methods

The study assessed 99 children, 33 in each of three groups (those implanted between 1 and 2 years; 2 and 3 years; and 3 and 4 years). Preverbal skills were measured in three areas: turn taking, autonomy and auditory awareness of spoken language, using the Tait video analysis method.

Results

The youngest implanted group made an exceptional progress outperforming in all measures the two other groups (p < 0.01), 6 and 12 months post-implantation, whereas there was no such difference before implantation. In the youngest group there was also significantly greater use of an auditory/oral style of communication: 85% of the group by 12 months post-implantation compared with 30% and 18% of the two older groups.

Conclusions

Vocal and auditory preverbal skills develop much more rapidly in children implanted between 1 and 2 years in comparison with older implanted children and reach a significantly higher level by 6 and 12 months post-implantation. In addition, younger implanted children are significantly more likely by 12 months post-implantation to adopt an auditory/oral mode of communication. These findings favour cochlear implantation as early as between 1 and 2 years, provided that correct diagnosis and adequate hearing-aid trial have been achieved.
Keywords: Language development; Speech perception; Cochlear implant; Prediction; Vocal; auditory; Communication; Preverbal; Observation; Interaction; Deaf; Children; Outcome

 

[flip]

From here...

Age at implantation and development of vocal and auditory preverbal skills in implanted deaf children

M.E. Taita, T.P. Nikolopoulosb, , and M.E. Lutmanc
aThe Ear Foundation, Nottingham, United Kingdom
bDepartment of Otorhinolaryngology, Athens University, Greece
cInstitute of Sound and Vibration Research, University of Southampton, United Kingdom
Received 13 September 2006; revised 16 December 2006; accepted 18 December 2006. Available online 18 January 2007.





Summary

Background

Preverbal vocal and auditory skills are essential precursors of spoken language development and they have been shown previously to predict later speech perception and production outcomes in young implanted deaf children.

Objectives

To assess the effect of age at implantation on the development of vocal and auditory preverbal skills in implanted children.

Methods

The study assessed 99 children, 33 in each of three groups (those implanted between 1 and 2 years; 2 and 3 years; and 3 and 4 years). Preverbal skills were measured in three areas: turn taking, autonomy and auditory awareness of spoken language, using the Tait video analysis method.

Results

The youngest implanted group made an exceptional progress outperforming in all measures the two other groups (p < 0.01), 6 and 12 months post-implantation, whereas there was no such difference before implantation. In the youngest group there was also significantly greater use of an auditory/oral style of communication: 85% of the group by 12 months post-implantation compared with 30% and 18% of the two older groups.

Conclusions

Vocal and auditory preverbal skills develop much more rapidly in children implanted between 1 and 2 years in comparison with older implanted children and reach a significantly higher level by 6 and 12 months post-implantation. In addition, younger implanted children are significantly more likely by 12 months post-implantation to adopt an auditory/oral mode of communication. These findings favour cochlear implantation as early as between 1 and 2 years, provided that correct diagnosis and adequate hearing-aid trial have been achieved.
Keywords: Language development; Speech perception; Cochlear implant; Prediction; Vocal; auditory; Communication; Preverbal; Observation; Interaction; Deaf; Children; Outcome

"Preverbal vocal and auditory skills are essential precursors of spoken language development.." is a statement here that not even is proved. It's so flawed it's emberassing.

Paid "research" from the oralists at Ear Foundation is not what I will pay 500 dollars for, but nice try. To help you, it's easier to throw in some research about for example, rocket science, if you just want to throw in some irrefutable evidence without making some claims that is debated on here.

 

[neecy]

if preverbal auditory and auditory skills are NOT necessary - then why do babies babble?

 

[Drew's Dad]

if preverbal auditory and auditory skills are NOT necessary - then why do babies babble?

Don't get ahead of yourself neecy, you're going to have to prove that babies babble before we can consider your example.

 

[Raykat]

Hello where have you been when this were happening? obviously you don't count those events.
IEEE Spectrum: Running Against The Wind
Scott Rigsby

I don't think raykat is talking about regrowing limbs... of course Human isn't like Lizard that can regrow their tail! she's talking about artificial prosthetics as CI is a prosthetics.

You know "Dancing with the Stars" ? one lady was in the show, she's one legged amputee and has a prosthetics leg.

as for vision... of course there's vision implant
vision implant - Google Search

It's happening...

Oh speaking of regrowth of limbs
Wired 11.11: Regrow Your Own
Scotsman.com News - Sci-Tech - Military scientists to study regrowth of limbs
well, they are working on that... so I ask, is it ok? oh wait we shouldn't destroy the amputee culture. :roll:

Thanks Boult, thats exactly what I was getting at. Been away for weekend and now trying to plow thru all these posts following the "tangled web we weave"....lol

 

[Raykat]

if preverbal auditory and auditory skills are NOT necessary - then why do babies babble?

Easy one.........babies babble because they like the hear their own voices, havent you ever seen a small baby make a sound, maybe a louder sound than it has made before, stop, listen, then repeat the same sound.......my mother always said I was a very quiet baby, maybe be cause I couldnt hear my own voice..........any thoughts on that.

and before any one mentions babies crying, that is a totally different thing, connected to telling mum and dad that they are hungry or the nappys wet.

 

[deafdyke]

Neecy, deaf and hard of hearing babies babble!
Boult, what does a double amputee being able to run against bipedials have to do with anything I was talking about?
He runs............so what? His legs and feet haven't magicly regrown.
Also, the vision implant doesn't give blind and low vision people sight, the way sighted people think of sight. It gives them SOME sight, but not at all the way we see.

 

[Raykat]

Hi I'm just wondering if you have ever gone through testing to see if you could get a CI? Or have you decided that the risk of it causing more problems when your brain is introduced to sound it's never heard isn't worth it at this time in your life?

I do realize you're pre lingally deaf and what you could get from a CI is probably much different then what I get. Just curious.

Hi, I have mentioned in other threads that I am on the waiting list for CI, however owing to the long list and small amount done per year I may never get it done. I wear h/a now, always have so do have sound, it is actually quite loud but not the clarity that CI would, hopefully, provide. My half sister who has same hearing loss as me was implanted 18 mths ago and is gaving great success, you may liek to read my thread, "anyone adopted and found birth parents" to get the family background.