"Letting the Child Decide"

jag said:
.............
alot of this discussion comes from the fact that cloggy is saying his daughter is not defined by her deafness. Maybe I understand him with no problem because I'm not defined by mine. I'm deaf but it's just a small part of me, an annoying part I lived with for years and now with a CI it's become an even more irrelevant part. Now that I've confused everyone even more it's time to go to work.
........
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Confused... no, you just explained it quite nicely... for those who want to hear...
 
Cloggy said:
You mean like the one you have provided ....

You're a lot of mouth, but I haven't seen anything from you....
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Then you aren't looking. And, unlike you, I can use my mouth and my hands!
 
...............
alot of this discussion comes from the fact that cloggy is saying his daughter is not defined by her deafness. Maybe I understand him with no problem because I'm not defined by mine. I'm deaf but it's just a small part of me, an annoying part I lived with for years and now with a CI it's become an even more irrelevant part..............................
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jillio said:
The fact that you find your deafness annoying speaks volumes.
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Funny... I also read that the deafness was irrelevant, even more irrelevant with CI nowadays.... The positive part of Jags post.
But sure, you could pick out "annoying" and focus on that...

Jillio, looks like you need deafness to give yourself an identity......
 
jillio said:
Then you aren't looking. And, unlike you, I can use my mouth and my hands!
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Unlike me??? So can I.... So can most of the world....

Still, no papers, publications.... difficult to find I guess...
 
Cloggy said:
Unlike me??? So can I.... So can most of the world....

Still, no papers, publications.... difficult to find I guess...
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Rad the posts. cloggy! They'll be a clue in there somewhere for you!
 
Cloggy said:
Funny... I also read that the deafness was irrelevant, even more irrelevant with CI nowadays.... The positive part of Jags post.
But sure, you could pick out "annoying" and focus on that...

Jillio, looks like you need deafness to give yourself an identity......
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wow..deafness is even more irrelevant with CI nowadays? Tell that to those kids have CIs who come to our schools so language deprived because they couldnt benefit from the CIs in public schools. Yes, u are right..ASL is saving their lives. I cant imagine if there was no ASL..but I guess that is irrevelant to u now.
 
Cloggy said:
Unlike me??? So can I.... So can most of the world....

Still, no papers, publications.... difficult to find I guess...
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Maybe try getting out of your CI comfort box and look in other categories besides the CI/HAs categories and I am sure u can find it. :)
 
Cloggy said:
Funny... I also read that the deafness was irrelevant, even more irrelevant with CI nowadays.... The positive part of Jags post.
But sure, you could pick out "annoying" and focus on that...

Jillio, looks like you need deafness to give yourself an identity......
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Sweetie, I've had my identity for years. That's why I wasn't threatened by the fact that my son choose to identify with the Deaf community. You are only threatened by what you fear, and you only fear what you think will lead to a loss.
 
jag said:
You know, I don't want your money, Cloggy was asked to give supporting data and he gave a list supporting what he's saying. By going to actually I believe is was medscape where I found the abstact that I posted you can sign up free and explore any type of peer reviewed articles you want. the short analysis provided by AB seems to haave been accurate for the abstrat I posted.
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Could you then tell me what he is saying, that have support in this list?

I doubt you can sign up and explore those articles in Cloggy's list for free... It was a silly attempt to post this list in the first place in an effort to present some irrefutable evidence.

jag said:
So far I have not seen the proof ...peer reviewed articles/abstracts nor any links or titles/publications from jillio, if she comes up with a list like the one from AB with enough information to track an on line copy at a place that lists peer related publications I would take a look, the fact that jillio and yourself are not willing to take the list and check that the information is accurate and not misleading to prove your point or even to provide the information she says she has seems to mean that she and possibly you are the ones who aren't really interested in peer review.
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First, I need to know what point you want me to prove? And I would not necessary resort to putting a peer to preview article on this forum, as most of them are copyrighted and printed in journals with permission.

You are right, I am not especially interested in peer to preview articles, but facts to back up claims.
 
shel90 said:
wow..deafness is even more irrelevant with CI nowadays? Tell that to those kids have CIs who come to our schools so language deprived because they couldnt benefit from the CIs in public schools. Yes, u are right..ASL is saving their lives. I cant imagine if there was no ASL..but I guess that is irrevelant to u now.
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No, it's great they get to learn ASL. I'm happy for them and I think you're doing a great job....

Now stop assuming these children are the norm....

The norm are the children with Ci you do not see. They are fully, happily integrated within their own community, enjoying life, their families, friends.

Please do not project your miseries as a child on these children....

Again, I think you're doing a great job, and I am glad you are teaching these children sign. It could very well be the best thing in life that happened to them so far...

Also, READ posts.... and see how "irrelevent" is used in the context of Jag's post..... I'll help you...
A lot of this discussion comes from the fact that cloggy is saying his daughter is not defined by her deafness. Maybe I understand him with no problem because I'm not defined by mine. I'm deaf but it's just a small part of me, an annoying part I lived with for years and now with a CI it's become an even more irrelevant part.
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Makes more sense to you now?
 
Cloggy said:
No, it's great they get to learn ASL. I'm happy for them and I think you're doing a great job....

Now stop assuming these children are the norm....

The norm are the children with Ci you do not see. They are fully, happily integrated within their own community, enjoying life, their families, friends.

Please do not project your miseries as a child on these children....

Again, I think you're doing a great job, and I am glad you are teaching these children sign. It could very well be the best thing in life that happened to them so far...

Also, READ posts.... and see how "irrelevent" is used in the context of Jag's post..... I'll help you...


Makes more sense to you now?
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Wow! I guess we can make up our own definitions now. "The norm are the children with CI you don't see." That is hardly the norm. I see the problem now. Cloggy lives in a world no one else has accesss to because itss one he has created. Delusional.
 
Cloggy said:
No, it's great they get to learn ASL. I'm happy for them and I think you're doing a great job....

Now stop assuming these children are the norm....

The norm are the children with Ci you do not see. They are fully, happily integrated within their own community, enjoying life, their families, friends.
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No one said "norm", except you.

A recent survey showed that almost 50 percent of the deaf mainstreamed kids was not named, when classmates was asked to name their closest friends in their class.

Fully integrated?

It was from scandinavia, if I remember right, can ask for source if you want, if it does really matter for your opinion.
 
jag said:
I went and looke at Cloggy's link. THe link provides the summaries of various studies done to see if improvment is made after implanting a second CI. In the cases the control is the persons test results with only one Ci. If you read down you'll even see that one of the studies actually included post lingally bi lateral subjects and age matched normal hearing subjects.

So some are controlled and some are case studies. All are peer reviewed, and all state what each particular study is looking at. Being perr reviewd I'm sure if you are a member of med line or whatever you could probably pull them up and get a more indepth view of the process and such.

Ok now your peer reviewed list showing the oposite of Cloggy's?
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Looks like Flip owes Cloggy $500!
Rick
 
jillio said:
The fact that you find your deafness annoying speaks volumes.
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well I find mine annoying too......I guess it all gets back to whether you look upon deafness as a physical/medical disability to be corrected in any way possible.........or of you take the view that DEAFNESS is some huge wonderful identity making thing to be clung to at any cost.

Having said that I just cant believe the juvenile playground sniping thats going on in this thread, everyone is getting so confused you just dont know or cant remember what was said.

We are all deaf or HOH on here, apart from parents etc, if some cant play nicely then they should be sent home
 
Raykat said:
well I find mine annoying too......I guess it all gets back to whether you look upon deafness as a physical/medical disability to be corrected in any way possible.........or of you take the view that DEAFNESS is some huge wonderful identity making thing to be clung to at any cost.

Having said that I just cant believe the juvenile playground sniping thats going on in this thread, everyone is getting so confused you just dont know or cant remember what was said.

We are all deaf or HOH on here, apart from parents etc, if some cant play nicely then they should be sent home
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That's the whole point: the medicalized view, or the linguistic/cultural view. Those who take the linguistic/cultural view truly resent being told they are defective.
 
Cloggy said:
No, it's great they get to learn ASL. I'm happy for them and I think you're doing a great job....

Now stop assuming these children are the norm....

The norm are the children with Ci you do not see. They are fully, happily integrated within their own community, enjoying life, their families, friends.

Please do not project your miseries as a child on these children....

Again, I think you're doing a great job, and I am glad you are teaching these children sign. It could very well be the best thing in life that happened to them so far...

Also, READ posts.... and see how "irrelevent" is used in the context of Jag's post..... I'll help you...


Makes more sense to you now?
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Uh Uh..good try Cloggy. Patrionizing me wont work.

Yes, I read Jag's post and understood clearly what she was referring to when using the word "irrevelant"...your point is?

Now, let me help u...my reference to this word was in reference to YOUR post about deafness being irrevelant with CIs nowadays. Nothing to do with Jag's comment. Gasp!!! Yes, I can read. :)

U can do the patriotnizing on others but with me..nope, aint happenin' baby. :giggle:

Pls show me sources proving that CI children who are happy not needing sign language or the need to meet other deaf people are the norm. That would be helpful since u are set on educating me.
 
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