"Letting the Child Decide"

Raykat said:
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Whats this identity business?????..........being deaf does not identify you.....your personality, upbringing,, background is what identifies you, being deaf simply adds another dimension.

I feel really happy for Lotte, have just read her blog and know for sure that she will grow up an extremely happy, loved and well educated young lady.
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I can understand where beetaroh is coming from with identity issues. Deaf people who had high expectations placed on them to function exactly like hearing people usually grow up with identity problems because many of them are believed to be hearing so they try to function like hearing people and end up not beiong able to. That can damage self esteem. That happened to me and it sounds like it happened to beetaroh too. If the child grows up in a hearing world without any contact with other deaf people and is told that being deaf is ok or that the child's deafness is not the primary trait that hearing people constantly bring up, then the child wil more likely to grow up without scars. I think that is what beetaroh is trying to explain to Cloggy.

However, I think Lotte will be fine cuz it seems that Cloggy knows that she is deaf no matter what and has stated that his daughter knows signs and doesn't mind if she wants to resume using it again later. I, on the other hand, was denied sign language when I showed an interest in learning it, was criticized constantly for not having speech skills like hearing people's, yelled at in class for not following the lesson (how can I if the teachers walk around in class talking?), getting told that I can hear more than I claim to be cuz of my good speech skills so I get blamed for misunderstanding hearing people, social situations were hard, and my deafness was always brought up constantly in deifferent situations. Deaf children do not need that...

I don't think Cloggy will allow those things happen to Lotte..
 
rick48 said:
Where are yours? Cloggy has real life experience raising a ci child. You do not. Thus, despite all your unsubstantiated opinions and protestations that you are always right, nothing you say can match his experience raising a ci child!

BTW, in addition to myself, you should be the last person to use sarcasm as an indicator of lack of validity to one's opinions.

It did not take you long to break your promise to R2D2!
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My response was to cloggy, not you. And, my comment to R2D2 was to R2D2. Never once have you or cloggy supplied any statistics or research to back up your claims. I on the other hand, have. And I am done feeding the trolls.
 
Raykat said:
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Whats this identity business?????..........being deaf does not identify you.....your personality, upbringing,, background is what identifies you, being deaf simply adds another dimension.

I feel really happy for Lotte, have just read her blog and know for sure that she will grow up an extremely happy, loved and well educated young lady.
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Perhaps it is not where you find your identity, but there is a whole culture, made up of several individual communites, of people who do.
 
jillio said:
My response was to cloggy, not you. And, my comment to R2D2 was to R2D2. Never once have you or cloggy supplied any statistics or research to back up your claims. I on the other hand, have. And I am done feeding the trolls.
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Lol! Trols! U r too funny sometimes..:)
 
Cloggy said:
You have.....??

Well, have a look here about bilateral CI.... Conclusions of the studies in the right column....
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When one makes claims, it's a good idea to have back up in facts, that's what Jillio tried to tell you. But you are not making any specific claims about anything special here, and throw in some scientifical papers to prove you can throw in some scientifical papers.

U'r funny :)
 
flip said:
When one makes claims, it's a good idea to have back up in facts, that's what Jillio tried to tell you. But you are not making any specific claims about anything special here, and throw in some scientifical papers to prove you can throw in some scientifical papers.

U'r funny :)
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Thanks, flip. And since the "paper" he supplied does not tell me anything about methodology ot statistical anaylis that lead tothe conclusions, the results cannot be interpreted by anyone reading the "paper". As well, the study was done with participants who have been implanted--there is no control group for comparison, and therefore, the study design is biased and flawed. I still challenge him to provide me with irrefutable evidence.
 
Reopening this case: I am done here. Hearing parents will dominate anything they believe in until they are hit blindsided. My mother was one of them. So Cloggy, forget this post, forget about my comments and question: obvisiously means nothing to you. Have a great normal life with your daughter lies ahead. I congratulates you for being a good person for your daughter. After this I meet myself to higher standerd grounds. Next time I will try to have better and stronger back up evidence. So right now my gratitude is towards to jillio. Good luck jillio. Case is closed, for second time.

beetarehoh
 
beetarehoh said:
Reopening this case: I am done here. Hearing parents will dominate anything they believe in until they are hit blindsided. My mother was one of them. So Cloggy, forget this post, forget about my comments and question: obvisiously means nothing to you. Have a great normal life with your daughter lies ahead. I congratulates you for being a good person for your daughter. After this I meet myself to higher standerd grounds. Next time I will try to have better and stronger back up evidence. So right now my gratitude is towards to jillio. Good luck jillio. Case is closed, for second time.

beetarehoh
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beetarehoh,
I have done nothing that you need to be grateful for. But I do believe you are right, some parents just refuse to step out of their self protective little box and see the truth.
 
beetarehoh said:
Reopening this case: I am done here. Hearing parents will dominate anything they believe in until they are hit blindsided. My mother was one of them. So Cloggy, forget this post, forget about my comments and question: obvisiously means nothing to you. Have a great normal life with your daughter lies ahead. I congratulates you for being a good person for your daughter. After this I meet myself to higher standerd grounds. Next time I will try to have better and stronger back up evidence. So right now my gratitude is towards to jillio. Good luck jillio. Case is closed, for second time.

beetarehoh
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I am sorry to know that your mother was like that. It cant be easy. My parents werent too bad. My dad was in his own world and my mom was too believing of the oral specialists. She told me that she regrets it and now is learning sign language. :)

I know how u feel. Keep your chin up and remember u do have a support system here! :)
 
shel90 said:
I am sorry to know that your mother was like that. It cant be easy. My parents werent too bad. My dad was in his own world and my mom was too believing of the oral specialists. She told me that she regrets it and now is learning sign language. :)

I know how u feel. Keep your chin up and remember u do have a support system here! :)
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Thanks. My mother is a great person. She just didnt know. And also my chin has already been up for a LONG time. Thought just trying to warn and help other parents but they are stubborn as well. Maybe everything will be fine with their child implantation.

I have two wonderful children and wife and we just enjoy our own hard of hearing life.
 
beetarehoh said:
Thanks. My mother is a great person. She just didnt know. And also my chin has already been up for a LONG time. Thought just trying to warn and help other parents but they are stubborn as well. Maybe everything will be fine with their child implantation.

I have two wonderful children and wife and we just enjoy our own hard of hearing life.
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I guess some people have a hard time believing that people are happy being deaf or hoh without the need to hear or hear perfectly. :dunno:
 
beetarehoh said:
Thanks. My mother is a great person. She just didnt know. And also my chin has already been up for a LONG time. Thought just trying to warn and help other parents but they are stubborn as well. Maybe everything will be fine with their child implantation.

I have two wonderful children and wife and we just enjoy our own hard of hearing life.
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Guess your mother didn't have the option of CI...

So, when you are warning people, you do that from a perspective of a HOH experience. You do not have the perspective of a CI-adult that grew up with CI. Not many of these exist due to the fact that it is very new, and because technology has improved so much.

I appreciate your help, but a HOH child in a hearing family can hardly be compared to a child with CI in a hearing family...
Have a look at Boult's latest thread... Some good info there...
 
shel90 said:
I guess some people have a hard time believing that people are happy being deaf or hoh without the need to hear or hear perfectly. :dunno:
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Absolutely wrong!!!

I do not recall any parent saying that deaf people cannot be happy. And from my experience and others here on the thread, I can say that this is absolutely NOT the case. I KNOW deaf people can be happy being deaf. I have met plenty here on the messageboard. (I have to admit that there's a lot of sad stories from their childhood... hence all the warnings...)

You are assuming something based on nothing. Even worse, you're assuming something even though many have said the opposite..

How would you react when I would say:
"I guess some people have a hard time believing that people are happy wearing CI. :dunno:

(And please tell me this is not what you believe..)
 
jillio said:
Thanks, flip. And since the "paper" he supplied does not tell me anything about methodology ot statistical anaylis that lead tothe conclusions, the results cannot be interpreted by anyone reading the "paper". As well, the study was done with participants who have been implanted--there is no control group for comparison, and therefore, the study design is biased and flawed. I still challenge him to provide me with irrefutable evidence.
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I found this paper hard to interpret, too. Could say more about this paper that puzzles me, but you have described it well. I am tempered to offer 500 dollars to Cloggy if he can provice you with irrefutable evidence to speed things up...
 
jillio said:
Perhaps it is not where you find your identity, but there is a whole culture, made up of several individual communites, of people who do.
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Well some of us deaf/hoh really don't like getting automatically lumped into deaf culture. I've never been part of deaf culture so donn't feel any need to say because I'm deaf it's my identity. :)
 
flip said:
I found this paper hard to interpret, too. Could say more about this paper that puzzles me, but you have described it well. I am tempered to offer 500 dollars to Cloggy if he can provice you with irrefutable evidence to speed things up...
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I went and looke at Cloggy's link. THe link provides the summaries of various studies done to see if improvment is made after implanting a second CI. In the cases the control is the persons test results with only one Ci. If you read down you'll even see that one of the studies actually included post lingally bi lateral subjects and age matched normal hearing subjects.

So some are controlled and some are case studies. All are peer reviewed, and all state what each particular study is looking at. Being perr reviewd I'm sure if you are a member of med line or whatever you could probably pull them up and get a more indepth view of the process and such.

Ok now your peer reviewed list showing the oposite of Cloggy's?
 
jag said:
I went and looke at Cloggy's link. THe link provides the summaries of various studies done to see if improvment is made after implanting a second CI. In the cases the control is the persons test results with only one Ci. If you read down you'll even see that one of the studies actually included post lingally bi lateral subjects and age matched normal hearing subjects.

So some are controlled and some are case studies. All are peer reviewed, and all state what each particular study is looking at. Being perr reviewd I'm sure if you are a member of med line or whatever you could probably pull them up and get a more indepth view of the process and such.

Ok now your peer reviewed list showing the oposite of Cloggy's?
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The $500 goes to Jag!
 
flip said:
I found this paper hard to interpret, too. Could say more about this paper that puzzles me, but you have described it well. I am tempered to offer 500 dollars to Cloggy if he can provice you with irrefutable evidence to speed things up...
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I'm pretty sure you won't loose any money on that one!:giggle:
 
jag said:
Well some of us deaf/hoh really don't like getting automatically lumped into deaf culture. I've never been part of deaf culture so donn't feel any need to say because I'm deaf it's my identity. :)
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Perhaps you don't, but as I said before, there are complete communities of those that do. And, they have a valid right to that identity, no matter how you choose to ID.
 
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