Jury recommends death sentence for Cleveland Serial Killer

diehardbiker said:
Is resting in peace a punishment?
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why do you believe death penalty is a murder?

is it against your religious belief or....?
 
Define murder.

I am agnostic and this has nothing to do with religious.

There is law that prohibits killing a human being by other human being. Remember in the court they always use "The people VS name of accuser" and when it comes to death penalty, who is people? Of course they all are human being and they decided that this scumbag deserves a death, therefore it is MURDER.

Those who murders deserves no society connection, no society respect at all, so put it in cell room where there is no society contact is best punishment.

Jiro said:
why do you believe death penalty is a murder?

is it against your religious belief or....?
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Exactly, they made choices knowing that there is potential consequences. Of course all accusers have the rights, and that rights stay intact until guilty verdict has reached, that is when the rights should be stripped, with one exception that the rights to prove innocent should remain no matter what. Execution strips that right (To prove innocent) permanently, that is why I am 100% against execution and this has nothing to do with religious. So, keep the topic on religious off limits.

Dixie said:
Convicts shouldn't be a protected class - they broke the law. They shouldn't get the extended protection of the law. Maybe knowing the hardships they face outside of prison might be hindrance to commit crime in the first place. Yes, they should be rehabilitated, but not given a protected status. Being a criminal is a choice. Your gender and your race is not a choice, it is genetics. It is by birth.

Besides some convicts work hard to rise above their criminal past and actually end up being very productive citizens. They realized they made a big mistake, and they worked hard to redeem themselves and in the end. They also bettered themselves and set an example for other convicts.

Still other convicts come from less than ideal backgrounds. They knew it was wrong to kill, steal, etc. However; they also consciously made that CHOICE to do it. Maybe they were raised in a bad neighborhood, crime seemed like the only way to make a living, but they still made the CHOICE. The best thing for convicts like this is when they are released is to not let them go back to the same environment and expect them to have different results. They need to be taken out of their comfort zone and someplace where they are encouraged to work hard and to rise above their circumstances to become something better than they ever thought.

I'm thinking we need better rehabilitation systems within our prison system.
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diehardbiker said:
Exactly, they made choices knowing that there is potential consequences. Of course all accusers have the rights, and that rights stay intact until guilty verdict has reached, that is when the rights should be stripped, with one exception that the rights to prove innocent should remain no matter what. Execution strips that right (To prove innocent) permanently, that is why I am 100% against execution and this has nothing to do with religious. So, keep the topic on religious off limits.
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Reached by whom? A jury may have one set of beliefs contrary to the defendant's but can impose their will. What if imposing one's will over another is "against the law?" Where will it stop? Aye yi yi.
 
Guess you never been in court room. Jury has only one set of belief? ROFLMA!!!!

All accuser are always considered innocent until jurors find them guilty with 12 votes.

There are total of 12 jurors and they all MUST agree each other, and if they can't agree, that is called hung jury which result mistrail thus forcing another new trial. 12 votes for guilty or 12 votes for not guilty, nothing else. 11 votes and 1 vote will cause the trial collapse. That is how our Justice works. I love that part, just that I am totally opposed to execution.

I would suggest you watch movie called "12 angry men" That movie is not true story but exact replica of whats really happen in the court. Once you watch it, I would be more than happy to have good discussion with you.

Beowulf said:
Reached by whom? A jury may have one set of beliefs contrary to the defendant's but can impose their will. What if imposing one's will over another is "against the law?" Where will it stop? Aye yi yi.
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diehardbiker said:
Guess you never been in court room. Jury has only one set of belief? ROFLMA!!!!

All accuser are always considered innocent until jurors find them guilty with 12 votes.

There are total of 12 jurors and they all MUST agree each other, and if they can't agree, that is called hung jury which result mistrail thus forcing another new trial. 12 votes for guilty or 12 votes for not guilty, nothing else. 11 votes and 1 vote will cause the trial collapse. That is how our Justice works. I love that part, just that I am totally opposed to execution.

I would suggest you watch movie called "12 angry men" That movie is not true story but exact replica of whats really happen in the court. Once you watch it, I would be more than happy to have good discussion with you.
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your experience with justice system is from.... 12 Angry Men?
 
diehardbiker said:
Guess you never been in court room. Jury has only one set of belief? ROFLMA!!!!

There are total of 12 jurors and they all MUST agree each other, and if they can't agree, that is called hung jury which result mistrail thus forcing another new trial. 12 votes for guilty or 12 votes for not guilty, nothing else. 11 votes and 1 vote will cause the trial collapse. That is how our Justice works. I love that part, just that I am totally opposed to execution.

I would suggest you watch movie called "12 angry men" That movie is not true story but exact replica of whats really happen in the court. Once you watch it, I would be more than happy to have good discussion with you.
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I didn't say a jury has one set of beliefs. I said they MAY have.
I saw the movie you mentioned. Good movie, I agree.
I saw another movie recently which was based on a true story, about how white jurors found a black man guilty of willful homicide in Africa, and it was thought-provoking. The black man was raised in a kraal while the jurors enjoyed white privilege, and there was a moral question as to the man's guilt. I forget the name of it.
Sorry for going off topic, but I have a couple of hours to kill and am bored. :lol:
 
diehardbiker said:
Define murder.

I am agnostic and this has nothing to do with religious.

There is law that prohibits killing a human being by other human being. Remember in the court they always use "The people VS name of accuser" and when it comes to death penalty, who is people? Of course they all are human being and they decided that this scumbag deserves a death, therefore it is MURDER.

Those who murders deserves no society connection, no society respect at all, so put it in cell room where there is no society contact is best punishment.
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ah... so death penalty is against your moral principles?
 
Beowulf said:
I didn't say a jury has one set of beliefs. I said they MAY have.
I saw the movie you mentioned. Good movie, I agree.
I saw another movie recently which was based on a true story, about how white jurors found a black man guilty of willful homicide in Africa, and it was thought-provoking. The black man was raised in a kraal while the jurors enjoyed white privilege, and there was a moral question as to the man's guilt. I forget the name of it.
Sorry for going off topic, but I have a couple of hours to kill and am bored. :lol:
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that reminds me of "To Kill a Mockingbird"
 
That is one of reason why I opposed execution, that way the accuser remains right to prove their innocent. Feel free check the innocence project, there is website for it The Innocence Project - Home

I always believe strongly that everyone is entitled on proving themselves innocent even after 12 juror voted him/her guilty. Execution strips that very last right and that is a no no.

Beowulf said:
I didn't say a jury has one set of beliefs. I said they MAY have.
I saw the movie you mentioned. Good movie, I agree.
I saw another movie recently which was based on a true story, about how white jurors found a black man guilty of willful homicide in Africa, and it was thought-provoking. The black man was raised in a kraal while the jurors enjoyed white privilege, and there was a moral question as to the man's guilt. I forget the name of it.
Sorry for going off topic, but I have a couple of hours to kill and am bored. :lol:
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My point here is

Justice is not accurate, there is flaws in the system. Because of that, why execution should be legal? My point is once executed, that soul has lost every rights even though that soul may never committed the crime and that is a MURDER because that poor soul never committed a crime where 12 assholes thought he is guilty.

Lastly, we are not GOD and we do not have right to end others life, which part do you don't understand?
 
diehardbiker said:
My point here is

Justice is not accurate, there is flaws in the system. Because of that, why execution should be legal? My point is once executed, that soul has lost every rights even though that soul may never committed the crime and that is a MURDER because that poor soul never committed a crime where 12 assholes thought he is guilty.

Lastly, we are not GOD and we do not have right to end others life, which part do you don't understand?
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I get your point.
We are not arguing if I agree with everything you said so far. :giggle:
 
:giggle:

Ah another good one, Movie called "Shawshank Redemption". Man, damn good movie! Drefus tried to prove his innocent while he was in prison. Whats wrong with this picture? Warden is the one who abused power, killed the one who knew the truth.

That is where I believe everyone is entitled to prove they are innocent and should not be ignored. I have seen some cases where judge dismissed such claims.

Glad this movie is not based on true story.

Beowulf said:
I get your point.
We are not arguing if I agree with everything you said so far. :giggle:
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diehardbiker said:
That is one of reason why I opposed execution, that way the accuser remains right to prove their innocent. Feel free check the innocence project, there is website for it The Innocence Project - Home

I always believe strongly that everyone is entitled on proving themselves innocent even after 12 juror voted him/her guilty. Execution strips that very last right and that is a no no.
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what about the murderers who are guilty beyond reasonable doubt? such as... a video camera CLEARLY identifying murderer brutally murdering a person?
 
Jiro said:
what about the murderers who are guilty beyond reasonable doubt? such as... a video camera CLEARLY identifying murderer brutally murdering a person?
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Jiro, the problem is that when you have death penalty, you decide if a person deserves it or not. And as we know from history, whites tend to get away with death penalty while more blacks get it. That creates injustice.
 
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