Jury recommends death sentence for Cleveland Serial Killer

saywhatkid said:
And this, compounded with the documented tendency for this person to commit felonious crimes, makes rehabilitation a very difficult task. No wonder there are so many career criminals.
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Yeah, no wonder, given the state of our esteemed penal system.
 
Beach girl said:
What did she do with her feet to make her a dangerous person?

I'm in support of more vocational rehab for prisoners who can be expected to return to society. A good training program and some sort of certificate of completion might be very helpful to someone hoping to start a new life.
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still doesn't help a lot of them. you're mostly unhireable. society's that cruel.
 
Beach girl said:
What did she do with her feet to make her a dangerous person?

I'm in support of more vocational rehab for prisoners who can be expected to return to society. A good training program and some sort of certificate of completion might be very helpful to someone hoping to start a new life.
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Her feet are more dangerous than her fists....even when she was handcuffed after a hard struggle, she managed to do destructive/physical damage with her feet. (Kicks to the face, groin, stomach, etc.) She was a fighter, no doubt about it. That's why 2 or more cops came whenever they were called to arrest her.

As for rehab...(some places are a real joke)...she's been thru all of those....even walked off a few....as for a "training program", she was denied because of her 5 offenses of domestic violence with injury....So, basically, she is screwed!

As for "starting a new life"....she's done that several times also, but again made so many bad "choices"....It's really sad. But, some times, the choices we make in life are the ones that will hurt us in the end. She realizes that now and the last time I did see her, she told me, with tears in her eyes, that she wished she had listened to me whenever I did try to advise her. Wherever she is today...no matter her record, I do wish her well.
 
Beach girl said:
What did she do with her feet to make her a dangerous person?

I'm in support of more vocational rehab for prisoners who can be expected to return to society. A good training program and some sort of certificate of completion might be very helpful to someone hoping to start a new life.
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I agree. But from what I understand.... Voc rehab is a great program many prisons have work camps and etc.... the problem is. You can not force an imate to work or comply with the program if they do not want to. They earn gain time so they can get out early if they do follow the program. Other than that many just rather sit in prison and serve their time.
 
Dixie said:
Here's a question:

Is it better to punish or to correct?

Punishment is to suffer the wrath for bad behavior.

Correction is changing a persons behavior through discipline.

Thoughts?
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Beach girl said:
That's one of those questions that you can't give a 100%, "this is always how it should be," sort of answer.

Training and guidance actually I think should be number one. "Train up a child in the way he should go..."

After that, correction.

Finally, if all else fails, punishment.

Somewhere along the line, removal from society comes into play, to protect both the removed one and society at large. This is even true on a small scale when children are given "time out" punishments, like 5 minutes sitting away from the rest of the family, to help them calm down and de-fuse the situation.

On a larger scale, if someone cannot follow the norms of civilized behavior, then the person has to be removed from society, for a greater or lesser amount of time. If possible, training, guidance and correction might all be appropriate during the time the person is removed.
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I also believe it's not a cut and dry issue.

When a person commits a crime, they need to be punished for that crime. However, there should be room for rehabilitation IF the person is amendable to it. There ARE people, however, who are NOT rehabilitable. These are the people that should be locked up for life. If that also means the death penalty so be it. But, when we are talking about completely unrehabilitable people, we're really talking about a very small percentage of people. Most people in our justice system are rehabilitable and should be given that chance.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
I also believe it's not a cut and dry issue.

When a person commits a crime, they need to be punished for that crime. However, there should be room for rehabilitation IF the person is amendable to it. There ARE people, however, who are NOT rehabilitable. These are the people that should be locked up for life. If that also means the death penalty so be it. But, when we are talking about completely unrehabilitable people, we're really talking about a very small percentage of people. Most people in our justice system are rehabilitable and should be given that chance.
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I agree with you the justice system in General needs a major overhaul. Sad in the State of Florida.. Rick Scott has cut back Majorly on the prison system. I think he is trying to privatize the prisons in Florida.
 
Babyblue said:
I agree with you the justice system in General needs a major overhaul. Sad in the State of Florida.. Rick Scott has cut back Majorly on the prison system. I think he is trying to privatize the prisons in Florida.
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FL is just one example. There are many, many states where people languish on death row for DECADES. I agree that there should be appeals, because, we are talking about taking a person's life, but, my gripe (one of many) is that it takes forever for these appeals to go through. Why is that? I am not saying we should rush the process and put someone to death in, say, 6 mos time. However, it shouldn't take 20 yrs, either. If the person absolutely, categorically did the crime and was sentenced to death, then execute. However, if there is ANY doubt, then commute the sentence.

And, then there's the mentally ill. Many mentally ill people are on death row. Then, there's people with cognitive deficits who are on death row. If your IQ is 70, doesn't that suggest that you really didn't understand the gravity of a situation? To me, it would. But, we execute people who are cognitively disabled. This needs to be abolished across the board.

I have many, many issues with our justice system AND the death penalty. We need a Federal overhaul in ALL 50 states.
 
But let's not forget that we have stupid frivolous lawsuits clogging up our court dockets which further delays appeals and so forth. I'm beginning to wonder if we should have separate court systems for criminal cases as well as non-criminal cases. Lawsuits should wait years while our criminal courts should be speedy and fair.
 
Dixie said:
But let's not forget that we have stupid frivolous lawsuits clogging up our court dockets which further delays appeals and so forth. I'm beginning to wonder if we should have separate court systems for criminal cases as well as non-criminal cases. Lawsuits should wait years while our criminal courts should be speedy and fair.
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While I'm nout sure about other states, this is not a problem in Texas.
Here we have separate civil court, family law court (i.e. anything to do with minors and/or divorce), drug court (separate even if the charges are criminal), private probate, tort and criminal. None over-lap, so the system moves rather smooth. Over 1700 folks are called to jury duty per day. Although most will not be picked for a jury, they are nevertheless called on, at average, twice a year.
 
shel90 said:
As for the concept of "removing" the offender from society to rehabilitate them, it sounds good. However, even if they do get rehabilitated and all that, they have a felony offense in which they will have to include whenever applying for jobs causing life more difficult for them. To me, that is like saying, "Yes, you are fit to return to society but you have to continue to suffer from your actions.:
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Believe it or not California is looking into this. They are considering making convicts a protected class.
 
I see the best punishment, the best punishment isn't death penalty. The best is to lock up one without any interact with other human being until he/she dies. That way, he/she will suffer for a long long long time rather than executing which last very short time.
Also, two wrongs can't make it right, execution is considered M U R D E R period. Do this mathematic equation Since killing is in negative territory, killing again goes farther into negative territory Here is mathematic equation -1 for murder + -1 for execution equals -2 comparing to a person who murdered gets lifetime sentence so no murder in justice equals 0 (-1+1=0).
I hope this scumbag goes to administration maximum prison instead of rest in peace (As if execution goes forward).

By the way, to those who thinks he deserves to execute, are you wishing him that he rest in peace afterwards, is that what you want as a punishment? I hope you think harder.
 
diehardbiker said:
I see the best punishment, the best punishment isn't death penalty. The best is to lock up one without any interact with other human being until he/she dies. That way, he/she will suffer for a long long long time rather than executing which last very short time.
Also, two wrongs can't make it right, execution is considered M U R D E R period. Do this mathematic equation Since killing is in negative territory, killing again goes farther into negative territory Here is mathematic equation -1 for murder + -1 for execution equals -2 comparing to a person who murdered gets lifetime sentence so no murder in justice equals 0 (-1+1=0).
I hope this scumbag goes to administration maximum prison instead of rest in peace (As if execution goes forward).

By the way, to those who thinks he deserves to execute, are you wishing him that he rest in peace afterwards, is that what you want as a punishment? I hope you think harder.
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So torture is better than murder? Your math does not add up if you think murder is wrong and torture is right.
 
What torture? All he is gonna to do is sit and do nothing, eat lousy food, shit, pissing and sleep, and there is nothing else. This cause this scumbag to have plenty of time to think what he had done and why he was stuck in cell room. How can this be torture?

Babyblue said:
So torture is better than murder? Your math does not add up if you think murder is wrong and torture is right.
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diehardbiker said:
What torture? All he is gonna to do is sit and do nothing, eat lousy food, shit, pissing and sleep, and there is nothing else. This cause this scumbag to have plenty of time to think what he had done and why he was stuck in cell room. How can this be torture?
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:iough:
 
Grummer said:
Protected? how in what way, examples?
hmm
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Similar to race and gender. If passed landlords and employers will not be allowed to ask if you have been convicted of a crime. I read this a month or so ago. If I remember you could still ask about Murder.

Edit: I just googled it and I guess it is just SF and not all of California.....I would post a link but the first few pages on google were just forums on the topic.
 
diehardbiker said:
What torture? All he is gonna to do is sit and do nothing, eat lousy food, shit, pissing and sleep, and there is nothing else. This cause this scumbag to have plenty of time to think what he had done and why he was stuck in cell room. How can this be torture?
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Just for an experience - you might want to try getting locked up in the room 24/7 everyday for 3 days. And then tell me it's not a torture.

btw - you won't even be able to tell if it has been 3 days because there is no clock nor watch. There's no window either.
 
I think employers should know if a potential job candidate has a criminal background. Besides any background check will automatically bring this information up, so SF's new law is useless.

Convicts shouldn't be a protected class - they broke the law. They shouldn't get the extended protection of the law. Maybe knowing the hardships they face outside of prison might be hindrance to commit crime in the first place. Yes, they should be rehabilitated, but not given a protected status. Being a criminal is a choice. Your gender and your race is not a choice, it is genetics. It is by birth.

Besides some convicts work hard to rise above their criminal past and actually end up being very productive citizens. They realized they made a big mistake, and they worked hard to redeem themselves and in the end. They also bettered themselves and set an example for other convicts.

Still other convicts come from less than ideal backgrounds. They knew it was wrong to kill, steal, etc. However; they also consciously made that CHOICE to do it. Maybe they were raised in a bad neighborhood, crime seemed like the only way to make a living, but they still made the CHOICE. The best thing for convicts like this is when they are released is to not let them go back to the same environment and expect them to have different results. They need to be taken out of their comfort zone and someplace where they are encouraged to work hard and to rise above their circumstances to become something better than they ever thought.

I'm thinking we need better rehabilitation systems within our prison system.
 
Is resting in peace a punishment?

Jiro said:
Just for an experience - you might want to try getting locked up in the room 24/7 everyday for 3 days. And then tell me it's not a torture.

btw - you won't even be able to tell if it has been 3 days because there is no clock nor watch. There's no window either.
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