"Judge not, that ye be not judge"

[Liza]

Cheri, I think people tend to be judgmental when they are not looking at the bigger picture. With every judgment, isn't there always fear?

Fear of damned souls & being damned,
fear of unknown,
fear of disobedience,
fear of loss in control,
and the list goes on.

 

[deafdyke]

but simply show that it is not their place to judge.

In each bible verse that mentions homosexuality, that is not the only sin that is mentioned in that verse. I want to know why homosexuality is the specific target. Reba, you refer to it as a movement, but its not a clearly anti-God movement, though there are many GLB's that I'm sure are turned off by religion. Why isn't more attention focussed on say the growing "God Free" atheist movement? I never hear anyone speak out against atheism. Only homosexuality. Anyone remember last century when bi-racial couples were considered unholy and unlawful? I think this is much the same way.

AMEN!!!!!! I mean the homosexual movement is seen is anti God, anti-family values.....but how could a couple involved in a loving consensual relationship be anti-God or anti-family values? We GLBers aren't evil....and we aren't a threat to the family.....Well we ARE considering that homosexuality messes up *traditional* gender roles...... but we aren't anti-family....and we certainly aren't a threat to the family or to the happiness of a family!

So, how could homosexuals/lesbians have the same mind of Christ while they still engage in this abnormal behaviour ?

Same way that women who wear pants to church, women who are pastors, and lots of other things can have the same mind of Christ, while engaging in "abnormal" behavoir or behavoir which isn't pleasing to God or Jesus, according to different churches!
There are churches and deonominations which accept GLB people openly....Quakers, Unitarians, Church of Christ.. There's even a specificly gay Christian Church...the Metropolition Community Church.There are also TONS of mainline deonominations that are being split by arguments and debates on the homosexual issue!

No, I am sorry to say you are wrong.. So you can accurse me for my being judgment but i give you some facts.. Goverment leaders will look down on gays are lowest soceity like black society which are limited rights, limited qualify, and limited freedoms... Might be you know that there is most powerful racist in blacks, and foreigns real loathe against gays. they have to chance using the gays [female and males] ought being slave to masters. gays never have freedom nor rights.. in past like thousand years ago, history repeat itself.. it never change itself.. you better even think about view of their mind's thought have something say on gays..

My personal prespctive on veiw of gay, therefore I believe that category of gays are labeled sex offenders and pedophilles period. I don't want to be offer to any gays or anybody for my intend! I just speak out through words come out of my heart view on gay society..

I highly recommend you check it on internet had talk about gays WERE slaves like black slaves did..

CKFarbes......Back when my grandparents were young, blacks were treated EXACTLY as GLB folks are nowadays.....and look how far we've come since then! Ku Klux Klan type thinking was MAINSTREAM then. So will follow the GLB rights crusade!
Don't you realize how prejudicated you sound? Sure you may not personally approve of the sex activities of GLB folks.....BUT SO WHAT? Do you walk up to people who are into S&M or furry sex (sex with stuffed animals) or people who use the Kama Sutra and scream and disapprove of THEIR sexual activisties? Being GLB is only a small part of who we are.....the reason it's such a lifestyle thing is b/c it involves our lifemates!

 

[Reba]

What exactly is a homosexual lifestyle anyway? I don't believe it to be a lifestyle at all. Do the heterosexuals have a lifestyle? What's the difference?

As portrayed in movies and TV programs, especially sitcoms, homosexuals demonstrate a "lifestyle". If you don't agree with it, complain to the movie and TV producers who are creating the stereotypes.

The media portray homosexuals as fun-loving, hip, non-judgemental, stylish, well-groomed, sensitive, everything positive, never negative. They don't show the bath houses, man/boy abuse relationships, bug chasers, effects of AIDS, or promiscuity.

Conservative people are stereotyped as narrow-minded, uneducated, out of touch with contemporary life, uncool, uptight, and hateful, with nothing positive going for them.

 

[Reba]

...The same sex acts that a couple does in bed are the exact same sex acts only they are two males/females that lays together and loves each other. It is also prohibited in the Bible for sodomy however couples do derive pleasure out of it in their marriage bed.

This is not the Penisarium forum, so I will not go into descriptive detail, other than to say that ANY sexual acts between two people of the same sex is sin. God designed man and woman to fit together. Any other imitation of that relationship is a sinful distortion of God's perfect design.

 

[Reba]

... I want to know why homosexuality is the specific target.

As I said, there is more preaching against homosexual sin in recent years because the homosexual movement has become more active.

Reba, you refer to it as a movement, but its not a clearly anti-God movement...

Yes, it is anti-God. It is one more attack on the authority of God's Word.

... Why isn't more attention focussed on say the growing "God Free" atheist movement?

There is plenty of attention focused on the atheist movement; the problem is, most of that attention is in fundamental Christian churches and conservative radio programs. The "mainstream" media doesn't cover that topic in the same way, except when there is a public event or legislation or a judicial decision tied to it. It is not a "sexy" enough topic for the general media.

Anyone remember last century when bi-racial couples were considered unholy and unlawful? I think this is much the same way.

No, it is not the same.

 

[kuifje75]

As portrayed in movies and TV programs, especially sitcoms, homosexuals demonstrate a "lifestyle". If you don't agree with it, complain to the movie and TV producers who are creating the stereotypes.

The media portray homosexuals as fun-loving, hip, non-judgemental, stylish, well-groomed, sensitive, everything positive, never negative. They don't show the bath houses, man/boy abuse relationships, bug chasers, effects of AIDS, or promiscuity.

Conservative people are stereotyped as narrow-minded, uneducated, out of touch with contemporary life, uncool, uptight, and hateful, with nothing positive going for them.

Are you really sure of that? Haven't you seen Queer as Folks? They definitely do show the scenes that you profess that the media doesn't. Oh, my bad, I knew you wouldn't watch such a thing anyway cos its against your religion.

Again, not all homosexuals are like that. Heterosexuals are just as bad.

 

[deafdyke]

They don't show the bath houses, man/boy abuse relationships, bug chasers, effects of AIDS, or promiscuity.

Well the man-boy abuse relationships are VERY much a minority in the "gay community".......and they ARE looked down on in the mainstream gay community! Not every gay man in the nation is a member of NAMBLA......There are some....but did you know that MOST NAMBLAers are HETROSEXUAL?
Yes, promiscuity and bathhouses are wrong and disgusiting.....but lots of straight folks are promiscuis....lots of straight guys go to massage parlors....
AIDS isn't a gay thing....Straight folks can get it too!
Bug chasers.....I swear those folks are on crack and should be locked up in a mental insitution somewhere!

 

[Reba]

Are you really sure of that? Haven't you seen Queer as Folks? They definitely do show the scenes that you profess that the media doesn't. Oh, my bad, I knew you wouldn't watch such a thing anyway cos its against your religion.

I don't watch it because it doesn't interest me, period. There are many, many shows that I don't watch, some for "religious" reasons, some for "lack of interest" reasons.

Again, not all homosexuals are like that. Heterosexuals are just as bad.

I wasn't talking about how "all" homosexuals or heterosexuals really are. I was answering specific questions about media influence.

I am trying to stay off the rabbit trails.

 

[Reba]

Well the man-boy abuse relationships are VERY much a minority in the "gay community".......and they ARE looked down on in the mainstream gay community! Not every gay man in the nation is a member of NAMBLA......There are some....but did you know that MOST NAMBLAers are HETROSEXUAL?
Yes, promiscuity and bathhouses are wrong and disgusiting.....but lots of straight folks are promiscuis....lots of straight guys go to massage parlors....
AIDS isn't a gay thing....Straight folks can get it too!
Bug chasers.....I swear those folks are on crack and should be locked up in a mental insitution somewhere!

Again, I was replying to a specific question about the popular media influence. I'm not going to chase your rabbit (besides, we have been down this talking-points trail many times before).

 

[apathrev]

As I said, there is more preaching against homosexual sin in recent years because the homosexual movement has become more active.

Yes, it has become more active. Much like the Civil Rights Act did, last century. Homosexual marriage is only seeking state sanction. Not religious. So why do religious leaders fight so hard against it? It seems like some are attempting to mix church and state with this one.

Yes, it is anti-God. It is one more attack on the authority of God's Word.

How so? I see it as far more of a secular movement, with very little do with religion.

There is plenty of attention focused on the atheist movement; the problem is, most of that attention is in fundamental Christian churches and conservative radio programs. The "mainstream" media doesn't cover that topic in the same way, except when there is a public event or legislation or a judicial decision tied to it. It is not a "sexy" enough topic for the general media.

I've grown up around churches and private school my whole life, and never seen any such attention given to such topics as validating your beliefs over Atheism. In fact, many times the instructor made it a point to try and dodge over the issue.

No, it is not the same.

Why not? Its a struggle for equal rights from a minority group, much like the Civil Rights struggle.

 

[deafdyke]

I am sick of perverts, all of those kinky hardcore sex is stupid

No offense to Cookie Monster, but I DO see why Miss P is saying this.....it does seem like a lot of people who are into KINKY sex are into it b/c it's just SO tReNdY and non "vanilla"....there's nothing wrong with being into kinky sex, if that's what really gets you off.....but it's the tReNdSteRs that make it annoying....if it wasn't tReNdY, bet you anything that very few people would be into it.
Reba.....I recently found out that the typical profile of an incestuous person is a fundamentalist father.....does that mean that ALL fundamentalists instigate sex with their female offspring? No, and that's the same with GLB folks....there are dumbassed GLBers, but there are also dumbassed straight folks.....and I ask you the same question....Why is it that you're not all anti-Kama Sutra or anti- TEENS TEENS TEENS or anti straight porn or anti s&M or whatever? Would you judge a straight person who was very very heavily into S&M? We GLBers may have a perfectly healthy relationship.....a good relationship with God and all that....but just b/c of ONE little thing we can't be *real* Christians and we can't enter heaven (at least according to Crazymanwoot)

 

[Cookie Monster]

No offense to Cookie Monster, but I DO see why Miss P is saying this.....it does seem like a lot of people who are into KINKY sex are into it b/c it's just SO tReNdY and non "vanilla"....there's nothing wrong with being into kinky sex, if that's what really gets you off.....but it's the tReNdSteRs that make it annoying....if it wasn't tReNdY, bet you anything that very few people would be into it.

None taken, deafdyke. This is why I dislike it when some people are misinformed about BDSM. They think they can use regular candle wax to pour it all over their other partners when I tell them they can't do that, it has to be paraffin. TMI, I know. Granted, some people get into BDSM as it is "trendy" and some do get into BDSM because it releases pain. Some of those who participate in BDSM have had bad childhood experiences, traumatic sexual experiences and they escape it using BDSM. This is what I really discourage because it's not confronting your issues.

 

[Liza]

None taken, deafdyke. This is why I dislike it when some people are misinformed about BDSM. They think they can use regular candle wax to pour it all over their other partners when I tell them they can't do that, it has to be paraffin. TMI, I know. Granted, some people get into BDSM as it is "trendy" and some do get into BDSM because it releases pain. Some of those who participate in BDSM have had bad childhood experiences, traumatic sexual experiences and they escape it using BDSM. This is what I really discourage because it's not confronting your issues.

Great explanation!

 

[jazzy]

God created homosexuals. He must have a reason for it. Maybe to test human beings to see where their heart is? I do not see certain Christians follow word of God here either.

 

[Maria]

The truth is we are walkin' inside the Truth, the Word, and the Life. This earth is the size of ONE drop of water and God is BIG.

 

[apathrev]

God created homosexuals. He must have a reason for it. Maybe to test human beings to see where their heart is? I do not see certain Christians follow word of God here either.

Precisely.

"Why would God make us all so different if he wanted us all to be the same."-Saved

 

[Cheri]

You know, I feel so bad for the homosexuals, because they have been discriminate, criticizing, preached by Christians. Didn't Jesus teaches us all to love and respect all people? Why can't some people accept rather than rejecting to seek to understand rather than to judge them?

You have to be able to walk the mile in their shoes to understand and feel what's it is like to be homosexual, the love they share with their partners, not just sex like some people thinks it's all about sex. It's about love the same love you would feel with your husband or your wife.

Even through some would say, the bibles says it's wrong. But, all sins are wrong, and everyone of us have sinned. Should we be preaching ourselves about our own sins instead of preaching others about their sins?

 

[DreamDeaf]

I had to take some time to put my thoughts together and to reveiw what I know and also re-read some passages...

From what I can see from Cheri's post, she was talking about judgement, not about homosexuality, abortions or anything else...it was about JUDGEMENT.

I know we all do judge people by our beliefs and what we think they should do or should'nt do... however, the fact lies in this...only God CAN judge... we should'nt be doing the judging.

It says in the Bible that only God has the right to judge us all - that we do not have that right...and I agree with that, because our own judgements are going to be biased on our own beliefs, on our own lifestyle, on our own upbringing, on our own parents' way of thinking, on our environment, on our own friends and their influence in our lives...

I know that there are some that says they can judge without prejudice... well, that's not the truth. Anyone who says that, is ... lying ... or maybe even delusional.

Even our judges in courts, be they local, state or federal, acknowledge that they are not perfect, ir acting in place of the Lord, either. Their judgements are based on actions/punishments and not on moral or biblical judgements.

I have judged others, and I admit that. I know I have made mistakes with my judgements, and I have lost many times doing that... and even friends, too. Also, I have been judged myself, and I have lost respect for people that have done that - because many of those were one-sided, and none have asked for my side of the whole story each time.

So, personal judgements can have consequences and an adverse effect on friendships/relationships/acquaintances, even when you think you're helping people see the light...when actually you're shoving your personal beliefs, opinions and outlook on life on them without even thinking about what you might be doing or the damage you might be causing in doing this. You can tell them what you are thinking, but DO NOT say that this is wrong, this is against the Lord's word, this is preverted, this is ...yadda, yadda, yadda. Would you tell a Buddhist that his religion was wrong because they don't have the same God? Would you tell a Catholic his religion was wrong, because they have saints? Would you tell a mystery writer he was wrong, because he wrote about murder? Would you tell a woman she was wrong, because she was living with a man and had children out of wedlock with him?

There are just too many examples of where we can be judged... and all can hurt when put the wrong way or uttered in a sentence that comes out as a judgement.

Only the Lord is perfect, he can and WILL judge each one of us WITHOUT prejudice... period.

 

[IcedTeaRulz]

Best way is...P R A Y for them than judge them!

 

[deafdyke]

to DreamDeaf!!!!!!
It's ONLY God that can judge! Only GOD!!!! After having been involved in a healthy same sex romantic relationship, I don't think that God would condemn us.....He sees the quality of our love.....and I do think that when I get Up There He will say that my love for Maureen was OK.....I think He would however condemn a hetrosexual relationship where the love was not pure....like the man was all "Gods Will is for a Woman to Submit to a Man" to the extreme....and used that "authority" to beat on his wife or whatever......I've heard of abuses like that happening in some evalingacal and fundy churches.......