It must get tiring!

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jillio said:
Cool! I like everything but black olives, but I can pick those off!:giggle:
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Mmm I love black olives. Kalamata are my favorites.
 
CSign said:
Signing Exact English was created as a way to make English accessible, and to assist is DHH students to learn the English language.

Not one of the individuals who participated in the creation of SEE were looking to take ASL away, or to "improve on" the language of the Deaf.
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Why so defensive?

Does it make it ok for these hearing people to take a language and change it around without Deaf people's input?
 
Jiro said:
you don't care about what type of sign languages that parents use with their deaf children but why are you so concerned with what people think of you?

as you have repeatedly posted that your son is doing well and you are using sign language with him. sounds like your job is done and you don't have any deaf-related question for us so what's your goal in here?

are you paid to recruit parents into learning SEE or something?
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I'll give you $10,000 if you can find even one sentence where I'm trying to persuade someone to use SEE.
 
CSign said:
A lot of the signs in SEE are the same as ASL. They were both drawn from the original "signed language" here in the states.

The example you gave about butter+fly is a common misconception. It is actually signed the same way as in ASL with the two thumbs linked together.
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However, the concepts connected reprsented by each sign are quite different.

If you sign butter and then fly when you mean butterfly, it will be confusing to someone who has limited grasp of the English language. It's a lot more natural to use the ASL sign for butterfly. They will think of flying sticks of butter instead of butterflies.
 
deafskeptic said:
However, the concepts connected reprsented by each sign are quite different.

If you sign butter and then fly when you mean butterfly, it will be confusing to someone who has limited grasp of the English language. It's a lot more natural to use the ASL sign for butterfly. They will think of flying sticks of butter instead of butterflies.
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This is but just one example of what I'm saying.
 
CSign said:
A lot of the signs in SEE are the same as ASL. They were both drawn from the original "signed language" here in the states.

The example you gave about butter+fly is a common misconception. It is actually signed the same way as in ASL with the two thumbs linked together.
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just because you move your hands around doesn't mean SEE is just about same as ASL except it's in English structure.

yes SEE uses same signs as ASL but it uses a completely unnecessary structure.

"I go to store" vs "store me go"

what's so hard about that? are you THAT linear? and you cannot learn second language?
 
shel90 said:
Why so defensive?

Does it make it ok for these hearing people to take a language and change it around without Deaf people's input?
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What's so defensive about what I wrote?

Is it because I wrote something and therefore I'm being defensive?

If that's the case I can list a number of "defensive" people. I'm making the statement that no one was trying to "take away from" or "improve upon the language of the Deaf". That's all.
 
deafskeptic said:
However, the concepts connected reprsented to each sign are quite different.

If you sign butter and then fly when you mean butterfly, it will be confusing to someone who has limited grasp of the English language. It's a lot more natural to use the ASL sign for butterfly. They will think of flying sticks of butter instead of butterflies.
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Just let the butter fly in my popcorn!! :)


In all seriousness. What you just posted makes absolute sense.
 
deafskeptic said:
However, the concepts connected reprsented to each sign are quite different.

If you sign butter and then fly when you mean butterfly, it will be confusing to someone who has limited grasp of the English language. It's a lot more natural to use the ASL sign for butterfly. They will think of flying sticks of butter instead of butterflies.
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My brother had an elementary teacher who signed SEE. He said that she would sign "water" and "fountain" to tell the students to go drink from the water fountain but he and others were puzzled thinking there was a fountain on campus.

See how dangerous SEE is for deaf children's language development?

It is ok for those who already have established a strong L1 because they can figure out the puzzles and piece them together like I constantly do with my husband's tendency to sign more in SEE. However, for a child who is acquiring lagnuage...I strongly do not reccomend it.
 
CSign said:
A lot of the signs in SEE are the same as ASL. They were both drawn from the original "signed language" here in the states.

The example you gave about butter+fly is a common misconception. It is actually signed the same way as in ASL with the two thumbs linked together.
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It was reinventing the wheel. Totally uneccesary and actually more harmful to natural language acquisition. But that is they typical audist motive. Make it more like English.

Nope, not a misconception at all. An example of the way that all of the MCEs ignore the conceptual nature of ASL that makes is so well matched with visual processing. If the language were needed to be like SEE, the natural evolution of ASL would mean that the syntax and the signs were SEE. ASL evolved to meet the needs of the deaf population for a language that was both accessible and comprehensible. It did not need a hearing person to come in and change it so that it better agreed with the hearing person's language.
 
Jiro said:
just because you move your hands around doesn't mean SEE is just about same as ASL except it's in English structure.

yes SEE uses same signs as ASL but it uses a completely unnecessary structure.

"I go to store" vs "store me go"

what's so hard about that? are you THAT linear? and you cannot learn second language?
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Ok. Let me say this again.

I never said SEE was the same as ASL. I said many of the signs are the same, which they are.
 
CSign said:
What's so defensive about what I wrote?

Is it because I wrote something and therefore I'm being defensive?

If that's the case I can list a number of "defensive" people. I'm making the statement that no one was trying to "take away from" or "improve upon the language of the Deaf". That's all.
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You said that these people werent trying to take ASL away. How would you know that for a true fact? Why defend people who you dont know?
 
shel90 said:
Why so defensive?

Does it make it ok for these hearing people to take a language and change it around without Deaf people's input?
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And, we didn't need SEE for that purpose. English already has a mode that is visually accessible...writing.
 
jillio said:
It was reinventing the wheel. Totally uneccesary and actually more harmful to natural language acquisition. But that is they typical audist motive. Make it more like English.

Nope, not a misconception at all. An example of the way that all of the MCEs ignore the conceptual nature of ASL that makes is so well matched with visual processing. If the language were needed to be like SEE, the natural evolution of ASL would mean that the syntax and the signs were SEE. ASL evolved to meet the needs of the deaf population for a language that was both accessible and comprehensible. It did not need a hearing person to come in and change it so that it better agreed with the hearing person's language.
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There were Deaf, hearing, and CODA's involved in the creation of SEE.
 
deafskeptic said:
However, the concepts connected reprsented by each sign are quite different.

If you sign butter and then fly when you mean butterfly, it will be confusing to someone who has limited grasp of the English language. It's a lot more natural to use the ASL sign for butterfly. They will think of flying sticks of butter instead of butterflies.
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Exactly. Just because the handshape and the positioning might be the same does not mean that the sign is being used in the same way that it is used in ASL. That creates even more of a problem.
 
CSign said:
There were Deaf, hearing, and CODA's involved in the creation of SEE.
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I know that. The man who was credited of "inventing SEE" lives not even 1 mile from where I live. I know much more about him than what you will ever know.

I even had the fortune to meet his own students from 20-30 years ago and compare to these in my circle of friends.
 
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