It it really the deaf/Deaf community?

[faire_jour]

One of my friends taught me how to do that... Simply write your order.. it's that simple.

We are discussing children who are not yet able to read or write interacting with hearing people.

 

[deafskeptic]

We are discussing children who are not yet able to read or write interacting with hearing people.

Or on the other hand, if they can't read or write I would imagine that you could point to a picture on the menu and indicate what size you want. Or you could draw your own order.

I had to do that once when I came to a drive in and no one at the fast food place could read my order. I literally had to draw my order and indicate what size I wanted. Sometimes I don't use my speech because people will assume I hear much better than I do once they hear my speech

 

[Daredevel7]

I had to do that once when I came to a drive in and no one at the fast food place could read my order. I literally had to draw my order and indicate what size I wanted. Sometimes I don't use my speech because people will assume I hear much better than I do once they hear my speech

I am confused by this. Don't people talk to you anyway if you write/draw orders? Like if you wrote hamburger and they make a motion and ask "what size?" and you draw it again. This is more effective than saying "Large hamburger" because they assume that you hear better thus talk to you normally? I'm very confused.

 

[shel90]

I really loved the use of ASL in all of my classes - in my experience, I know that using ASL did NOT lessen the quality of my education; I even had AP English with the instruction and discussions held in ASL. Of course, we were expected to know our grammar and to know how to write decent essays! That is not an issue, if we get a good foundation in English writing and reading early on.



Me too! People are often amazed to find that I can write fairly well while I don't have adequate oral skills. I rely on ASL primarily. Reading is always the key, anyway.

I remember when I was 6, I read a children's story about Mary and Joe having to run away to give birth to Jesus. I noticed the word 'bore' - giving birth in irregular past tense in one of the sentences. I used it in one writing assignment totally unrelated to the Jesus story later on, and it really surprised the heck out of my teacher that I used it correctly! :P Keep in mind that teacher used SEE as a way to instruct the students of elementary school age. I guess I almost always had 'signed' instruction save for one hellish semester of having been mainstreamed, and you certainly don't see me being 'slow' on grasping and expressing concepts in written English.

I, however, can certainly understand some parents' concerns in interacting with hearing people. Unfortunately, not all hearing people are as enlightened as these parents or any of us when it comes to interacting with a deaf child or person overall. That's why I think there is some value in learning the essential words. Just knowing how to say 'thank you,' 'please,' 'hello,' and 'goodbye' - all the words used for manners are good enough for me!

It is my opinion that insecurity and impatient attitudes often contribute greatly to the difficulties I have in my interactions with hearing people. I can successfully interact with hearing people if they are open minded enough to communicate in other ways like writing on paper. We have technology - e-mail, chatrooms, DirectVP, relay service, etc - to add to our success in interacting with hearing people.

I agree with you 100% on that. If hearing people can just be willing to meet us halfway, then everyone will be able to interact with each other on a postive note. That's why I believe in advocating for the change in attitudes rather than putting all the responsibility on deaf children and people for communication and interaction with hearing non-signers.

 

[BradB08]

It is my opinion that insecurity and impatient attitudes often contribute greatly to the difficulties I have in my interactions with hearing people. I can successfully interact with hearing people if they are open minded enough to communicate in other ways like writing on paper. We have technology - e-mail, chatrooms, DirectVP, relay service, etc - to add to our success in interacting with hearing people.

This is always frustrating. I have met people who have absolutely no patience for Deaf people. Their body language and even their vocal cues imply this.

Then, there are those people who take it personally if you tell them somehow that you can't hear them.

 

[jillio]

By teaching the child that being deaf is ok, different approaches on how to communicate with hearing people, and most of all, instill confidence in the deaf child about their deafness. I wasnt given that despite being in a hearing world full time and u know what? I am the one who shies away from hearing people who do not know sign language and my brother who grew up in an ASL-based education setting at a Deaf school is much more outgoing than I am with hearing people who do not sign despite not having any speech skills. He has a part time as a tutor at a community college with hearing people who do not know ASL and I would definitely shy away from a job like that.

Maybe that's why I view the way I do cuz I have met over thousands of deaf people from all walks of life and I learned that ASL doesnt interfere with spoken language skills, English literacy, and interaction with the hearing world.

Excellent answer!

 

[jillio]

Actually we are not teaching to lipread but to listen.

I was using an example of children that aren't doing speech, since I so often hear her that you can be perfectly successful without any oral skills. And actually, my daughter orders her food every time we go to a resturant.

I want to know how to successfully interact before reading and writing. Anyone?

And until she is able to be independent, and go to a restaurant on her own, by which time she will be able to read and write, you are there to facillitate communication.

 

[jillio]

The reason is so that the child will learn to use their hearing instead of their eyes. It is only (supposed to) be used with children who have shown that they have good residual hearing or CI's. Not children who are unable to hear.

But, your daughter has not been implanted yet, has she? And you have stated that she receives no benefit from HA. Are you saying that you are currently using AVT with her, or that you plan to following implantation?

 

[jillio]

I mean without lipreading, not without body language.

Why would you want to restrict a child from using all of their senses? It seems as if with AVT, you attempt to replace lost hearing, and then turn around and take their vision from them.

 

[jillio]

Or on the other hand, if they can't read or write I would imagine that you could point to a picture on the menu and indicate what size you want. Or you could draw your own order.

I had to do that once when I came to a drive in and no one at the fast food place could read my order. I literally had to draw my order and indicate what size I wanted. Sometimes I don't use my speech because people will assume I hear much better than I do once they hear my speech

If a child is not old enough to read and write, I doubt seriously that they are in a restaurant attempting to order food without an adult. It is the adult's job to facilitate the ordering of the food, whether the child is hearing or deaf.

 

[shel90]

If a child is not old enough to read and write, I doubt seriously that they are in a restaurant attempting to order food without an adult. It is the adult's job to facilitate the ordering of the food, whether the child is hearing or deaf.

Right..I order for my children. My daughter just started ordering herself this year and she is 11. I can't imagine a 5 year old ordering food but anything is possible.

 

[doubletrouble]

I know that this is sooo off topic, but when we go out, (which is at least 1x a week), my children all order for themselves and have done so since they were little. They are now 14, 10, 10, 8, and 8 and have been doing this since they were little. Maybe because Dh is in the restaurant business, but we have always encouraged our children to order for themselves. To each his own.

 

[jillio]

I know that this is sooo off topic, but when we go out, (which is at least 1x a week), my children all order for themselves and have done so since they were little. They are now 14, 10, 10, 8, and 8 and have been doing this since they were little. Maybe because Dh is in the restaurant business, but we have always encouraged our children to order for themselves. To each his own.

Yes, they are placing an order for themselves, but you are there as an adult to facilitate if there is a problem, aren't you? That is my point. The child at the age of 5 is not in a restaurant independently ordering food.

 

[Cloggy]

Alright, I'll try to get us back on topic.

Let's start with the obvious:
If a hearing parent chooses either Oralism or CI for their deaf child, they get more negative comments than a hearing parent who chooses to put a child in a deaf school (would it even matter what type of deaf school as long they use some visual language?)

Would most people agree with this?

Depends on the perspective.
In Deaf culture this would definitely be the norm. The rest of the world doesn't even blink..

 

[Cloggy]

No, I wouldn't agree with that at all.

Okay so trying to rephrase, are you saying that there is a normal distribution among all deaf people in terms of their reactions towards hearing parents, no matter their choice?

Meaning there's only a handful of deaf people who are extremely against their choices and exact same handful of deaf people who 100% support their choices? And everyone else is in between? No matter their choices?

No need to rephrase. Your statement is a very good one. Jill just didn't agree.

 

[Cloggy]

And this is the parents' fault? I'm genuinely asking.

And if it is, what can the parents' do to rectify this? Simply learn ASL? (After the damage has been done)

And how can parents prevent this? Simply teach them ASL?

You are assuming the statement is correct.. It's not.. It's a wish..

 

[deafskeptic]

If a child is not old enough to read and write, I doubt seriously that they are in a restaurant attempting to order food without an adult. It is the adult's job to facilitate the ordering of the food, whether the child is hearing or deaf.

Point well taken.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

wow long and powerful thread here...

I can see there´re good argument on both sides.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Yes, they are placing an order for themselves, but you are there as an adult to facilitate if there is a problem, aren't you? That is my point. The child at the age of 5 is not in a restaurant independently ordering food.

True, I allow my children to pick what they like. It´s impossible for young children to go in resaurant by their own without parental supersivon.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I know that this is sooo off topic, but when we go out, (which is at least 1x a week), my children all order for themselves and have done so since they were little. They are now 14, 10, 10, 8, and 8 and have been doing this since they were little. Maybe because Dh is in the restaurant business, but we have always encouraged our children to order for themselves. To each his own.

Yes I am the same as you as well but with parental supersivon.

Excuse me for :topic: - wow that you have twins twice...