It it really the deaf/Deaf community?

Daredevel7 said:
So the parent must instill confidence in hearing world "By teaching the child that being deaf is ok, different approaches on how to communicate with hearing people, and most of all, instill confidence in the deaf child about their deafness" or is it placing their child in an ASL-based setting (like your brother?) or both?

It's safe to say that you do not believe that ASL interferes with the interaction with the hearing world AT ALL for the majority of deaf people?

Because I believe that's the majority of the parents' biggest fear.
Click to expand...

From what I have seen both personally and professionally since getting involved with the Deaf community in 1995 (more like 98 when I became FULLy involved), the answer is no.

I have a Deaf friend who grew up going to LSD who is a professional freelance photographer who travels all over the country doing shoots for contracts. I know another guy who is a financial broker who has used ASL all of his life (dont know if he was mainstreamed or went to a Deaf school) and owns a house close to a million dollars with his wife and 3 kids. Sure there are some deaf who grew up with ASL who are collecting SSI just like there are deaf who grew up without ASL who are collecting SSI as well.

I believe it depends on each person's personality..not the language they use. I dont know if I was born shy or being put in a linguistically-restrictive environment 24/7 made me feel anxiety whenever I am in a non-signing environment. The purpose of putting me in an oral only educational setting with only hearing kids was to get me to interact with them but instead, it did the opposite.
 
shel90 said:
By teaching the child that being deaf is ok, different approaches on how to communicate with hearing people, and most of all, instill confidence in the deaf child about their deafness. I wasnt given that despite being in a hearing world full time and u know what? I am the one who shies away from hearing people who do not know sign language and my brother who grew up in an ASL-based education setting at a Deaf school is much more outgoing than I am with hearing people who do not sign despite not having any speech skills. He has a part time as a tutor at a community college with hearing people who do not know ASL and I would definitely shy away from a job like that.

Maybe that's why I view the way I do cuz I have met over thousands of deaf people from all walks of life and I learned that ASL doesnt interfere with spoken language skills, English literacy, and interaction with the hearing world.
Click to expand...

So, my daughter is not yet old enough to read or write, tell me how I am supposed to teach her how to interact with people who don't sign. Assume she has zero speech and hearing and can't lipread at all. Some kid comes up and wants to play, or she is being asked a question by an adult, or she wants to order her own food at McDonalds. How can she interact with hearing people?
 
faire_jour said:
So, my daughter is not yet old enough to read or write, tell me how I am supposed to teach her how to interact with people who don't sign. Assume she has zero speech and hearing and can't lipread at all. Some kid comes up and wants to play, or she is being asked a question by an adult, or she wants to order her own food at McDonalds. How can she interact with hearing people?
Click to expand...

Isnt she taking speech classes to learn how to lipread? If not, why not?

Most hearing kids that age dont order food at McDonald's..at least my kids dont. At that age, most kids just play with little talking involved.

I have met over thousands of deaf people including those who have no lipreading nor speech skills and they have done fine interacting with hearing people. I have seen personal proof of that with my brother growing up and some of my students who have no speech skills tell me about playing with the neighborhood kids and they tell me how much fun they had. :dunno:
 
shel90 said:
Isnt she taking speech classes to learn how to lipread? If not, why not?

Most hearing kids that age dont order food at McDonald's..at least my kids dont. At that age, most kids just play with little talking involved.

I have met over thousands of deaf people including those who have no lipreading nor speech skills and they have done fine interacting with hearing people. I have seen personal proof of that with my brother growing up and some of my students who have no speech skills tell me about playing with the neighborhood kids and they tell me how much fun they had. :dunno:
Click to expand...

Actually we are not teaching to lipread but to listen.

I was using an example of children that aren't doing speech, since I so often hear her that you can be perfectly successful without any oral skills. And actually, my daughter orders her food every time we go to a resturant.

I want to know how to successfully interact before reading and writing. Anyone?
 
faire_jour said:
Actually we are not teaching to lipread but to listen.

I was using an example of children that aren't doing speech, since I so often hear her that you can be perfectly successful without any oral skills. And actually, my daughter orders her food every time we go to a resturant.

I want to know how to successfully interact before reading and writing. Anyone?
Click to expand...


That's great!!! Kudos to you for that!

What is your definition of success? It depends on your definition. My definition of success may not be your definition. Have to be more specific than that so that way I know what exactly are your expectations.
 
shel90 said:
That's great!!! Kudos to you for that!

What is your definition of success? It depends on your definition. My definition of success may not be your definition. Have to be more specific than that so that way I know what exactly are your expectations.
Click to expand...

Being able to understand and get your needs met. I would call that a successful interaction.
 
shel90 said:
I believe it depends on each person's personality..not the language they use. I dont know if I was born shy or being put in a linguistically-restrictive environment 24/7 made me feel anxiety whenever I am in a non-signing environment. The purpose of putting me in an oral only educational setting with only hearing kids was to get me to interact with them but instead, it did the opposite.
Click to expand...

I also agree with this.

Another thing I want to point out. Parents want what's best for their child right? I do believe that Oral only will more likely to bring out the "prodigy child" they've always wanted ("normal", "successful", "fits in") BUT if I am not mistaken, this is rare and causes way more bad than good for the majority of deaf children. When someone says "What about all those children that don't do well with oral, they fall behind. That's why we need these ASL-based programs for the deaf, so that the majority of deaf children will develop at a natural rate." This implies that those programs are of the "catch-all" types. Think of it this way: A parent with a hearing child has a choice between a high rated high school (money is no issue) that has a history of excellent success for the students to get into a good college vs a local high school with an average grade with a handful of graduates entering a good college. Most students (80%) who attempt to go to the high rated school fail after a year but most students who go to the local high school graduate. To choose the local high school would be like admitting "I don't think my child can be one of those top 20%". Not only that, but the parent must be convinced that if your child would have done well in the high rated school, s/he would also do well in the local high school too.

Hope my analogy makes sense? (It sounds kind of elitist, putting down deaf programs, but that is NOT intended.)
 
faire_jour said:
Actually we are not teaching to lipread but to listen.

I was using an example of children that aren't doing speech, since I so often hear her that you can be perfectly successful without any oral skills. And actually, my daughter orders her food every time we go to a resturant.

I want to know how to successfully interact before reading and writing. Anyone?
Click to expand...

Bolded statement is very stressful for children or adults who don't hear. It is also a controversial method used with CI kids where they are not allowed to see lips when trying to understand.
 
Bottesini said:
Bolded statement is very stressful for children or adults who don't hear. It is also a controversial method used with CI kids where they are not allowed to see lips when trying to understand.
Click to expand...

Yea, I dont agree with that method. Why take away visual cues when they havent been proved harmful?
 
faire_jour said:
So, how?
Click to expand...

*scratching my head* You said that your daughter orders food for herself at restaurants so she seems to be on the right track to developing skills in interacting with hearing people.
 
shel90 said:
*scratching my head* You said that your daughter orders food for herself at restaurants so she seems to be on the right track to developing skills in interacting with hearing people.
Click to expand...

Yes, mine is, but I'm asking how one is to do it without speech or lipreading skills.
 
faire_jour said:
Yes, mine is, but I'm asking how one is to do it without speech or lipreading skills.
Click to expand...

I will have to ask my brother, my friend with the deaf 3 year old, and the staff at the toddler program about that because I dont work with the toddler program so I cant make any assumptions that could be incorrect.
 
Bottesini said:
Bolded statement is very stressful for children or adults who don't hear. It is also a controversial method used with CI kids where they are not allowed to see lips when trying to understand.
Click to expand...

The reason is so that the child will learn to use their hearing instead of their eyes. It is only (supposed to) be used with children who have shown that they have good residual hearing or CI's. Not children who are unable to hear.
 
faire_jour said:
The reason is so that the child will learn to use their hearing instead of their eyes. It is only (supposed to) be used with children who have shown that they have good residual hearing or CI's. Not children who are unable to hear.
Click to expand...

They should use both--afterall we've had experiences with individuals who say their happy when in fact--their body language doesn't convey that message.
 
Byrdie714 said:
They should use both--afterall we've had experiences with individuals who say their happy when in fact--their body language doesn't convey that message.
Click to expand...

Yea, I have seen that too. I was one of them growing up! :giggle:
 
jillio said:
The language of instruction is ASL in a Bi-Bi program. Any deaf child that receives an education, no matter what the philosophy followed, will receive English instruction. The biggest issue is, what language is used to teach not just English, but all of the curriculum.
Click to expand...

I really loved the use of ASL in all of my classes - in my experience, I know that using ASL did NOT lessen the quality of my education; I even had AP English with the instruction and discussions held in ASL. Of course, we were expected to know our grammar and to know how to write decent essays! That is not an issue, if we get a good foundation in English writing and reading early on.

shel90 said:
I mastered fluency in English mostly from reading all the time since I loved to read.
Click to expand...

Me too! People are often amazed to find that I can write fairly well while I don't have adequate oral skills. I rely on ASL primarily. Reading is always the key, anyway. :lol:

I remember when I was 6, I read a children's story about Mary and Joe having to run away to give birth to Jesus. I noticed the word 'bore' - giving birth in irregular past tense in one of the sentences. I used it in one writing assignment totally unrelated to the Jesus story later on, and it really surprised the heck out of my teacher that I used it correctly! :P Keep in mind that teacher used SEE as a way to instruct the students of elementary school age. I guess I almost always had 'signed' instruction save for one hellish semester of having been mainstreamed, and you certainly don't see me being 'slow' on grasping and expressing concepts in written English.

I, however, can certainly understand some parents' concerns in interacting with hearing people. Unfortunately, not all hearing people are as enlightened as these parents or any of us when it comes to interacting with a deaf child or person overall. That's why I think there is some value in learning the essential words. Just knowing how to say 'thank you,' 'please,' 'hello,' and 'goodbye' - all the words used for manners are good enough for me!

It is my opinion that insecurity and impatient attitudes often contribute greatly to the difficulties I have in my interactions with hearing people. I can successfully interact with hearing people if they are open minded enough to communicate in other ways like writing on paper. We have technology - e-mail, chatrooms, DirectVP, relay service, etc - to add to our success in interacting with hearing people.
 
Back
Top