Is it ever ok for kids NOT to use ASL?

[shel90]

The reason is because it is impossible to say "THIS WILL WORK FOR ALL" and to pretend like other people's opinions and expertise don't matter. Just because you close your eyes and yell loud enough, doesn't make you right. Even if everyone pats themselves on the back and say "we are soooo right".

The world isn't black and white, I wish it were that easy.

U asked the question and got our opinions and feelings....

ASL is a language and many of us don't see how it is ok to deprive deaf children full access to a language just like hearing kids aren't..

Gosh, if I went to a hearing forum and started a thread asking if it is ok for hearing kids not to use spoken language and just use ASL instead...u bet people would go against that idea..

Why should it be different for deaf children?

 

[faire_jour]

U asked the question and got our opinions and feelings....

ASL is a language and many of us don't see how it is ok to deprive deaf children full access to a language just like hearing kids aren't..

Gosh, if I went to a hearing forum and started a thread asking if it is ok for hearing kids not to use spoken language and just use ASL instead...u bet people would go against that idea..

Why should it be different for deaf children?

And I didn't complain about the answers either. I wasn't surprised at all.

 

[shel90]

And I didn't complain about the answers either. I wasn't surprised at all.

Ok

 

[jillio]

Thank you. So there is a way to see the stats of how well a school is teaching reading.

Didn't I just say that? Do you mean that you did not know that prior to my posting it? You can view the results of the cummulative scores.

 

[jillio]

Because some people don't see the world as black and white.


If I had a hearing child who completly lost their hearing at age 10, I would give them a CI, and I doubt I would teach them ASL. Why do they need to learn a whole new language when they already communicate perfectly well?

Because, even with a CI, and being post lingual, receptive language is still compromised.

 

[jillio]

The reason is because it is impossible to say "THIS WILL WORK FOR ALL" and to pretend like other people's opinions and expertise don't matter. Just because you close your eyes and yell loud enough, doesn't make you right. Even if everyone pats themselves on the back and say "we are soooo right".

The world isn't black and white, I wish it were that easy.

The people using the word all are you and Daredevil. The rest of us are say "majority". And since it does work for the majority, and has been shown time and time again to offer an advantage, and to do no harm, why would you deny it? On the assumption that there is a .10% chance that your child will fall into the .05% at the far end of the curve? That is quite a risk to take, especially if optimal functioning is the goal for your child.

 

[loml]

I have yet to be able to access things like test scores. I am only able to judge based on what I see in the classrooms and the work from the students everyday.

faire_jour - You will not be able to view individual scores, you should be provided the schools standings in all core subjects.

If they say no...simply ask why not?

Then ask why the director doesn't support phonics and what she/he has to support her decision.

 

[jillio]

faire_jour - You will not be able to view individual scores, you should be provided the schools standings in all core subjects.

If they say no...simply ask why not?

That information is easily accessed through the state dept of education. If you want it badly enough, a 2 minute search on the Internet will pull up the website for your individual state. Doesn't take much effort at all.

 

[Mockingbird]

Because some people don't see the world as black and white.


If I had a hearing child who completly lost their hearing at age 10, I would give them a CI, and I doubt I would teach them ASL. Why do they need to learn a whole new language when they already communicate perfectly well?

Using a CI (or HA) doesn't give you the ability to communicate perfectly well again, as I'm sure just about every late-deafened CI user will say here. Once again it's just depriving them of a language they'll need to use if they want to communicate without barriers.

I can't begin to describe how much using ASL would help me, but my family won't learn it and as long as my hearing is good enough to keep good grades they don't see any reason for me to go to a school where I'd be able to actually talk with most of the students. This is a pitfall nobody should need to fall into, especially when the solution is just around the corner.

 

[rick48]

Sure it's okay not to provide ASL as a tool of communication and learning for a deaf child. As long as you are satisfied with the fact that you are preventing the child from functioning to their ability. Quite frankly, I'm not satisfied with that. (emphasis added)

Actually, that is not a "fact" but merely an opinion stating a subjective value judgment.

 

[rick48]

faire_jour - You will not be able to view individual scores, you should be provided the schools standings in all core subjects.

If they say no...simply ask why not?

Then ask why the director doesn't support phonics and what she/he has to support her decision.

loml,

Correct, our school routinely publishes the results of all the testing that they are mandated to do. In fact, our newsaper publishes those scores for every school district in our county.

Rick

 

[faire_jour]

I looked it up and my State school for the Deaf was testing at 10-35% of the national average. Remember this is a program that has a bi-bi school comprised of about 80% Deaf of Deaf. I don't know what conclusions should be drawn from that.

 

[deafdyke]

Actually Rick it IS a fact that oral only can inhibit sucess in life. Not oral TRAINING but oral ONLY. Yes, your experiance is that your child has done well....but think about it. How well would someone do if they were gifted in one thing, but defincent in another way, and their life's focus was lived soley to remediate that definecy?

 

[jillio]

Actually, that is not a "fact" but merely an opinion stating a subjective value judgment.

Actually, it is fact based on empirical data. Subjective value data is what the oralists use. They subjectively believe, based ont heir own experience, not the experience of the deaf, that oral only is more valuable than an environment that permits 100% access to communication.

 

[jillio]

Using a CI (or HA) doesn't give you the ability to communicate perfectly well again, as I'm sure just about every late-deafened CI user will say here. Once again it's just depriving them of a language they'll need to use if they want to communicate without barriers.

I can't begin to describe how much using ASL would help me, but my family won't learn it and as long as my hearing is good enough to keep good grades they don't see any reason for me to go to a school where I'd be able to actually talk with most of the students. This is a pitfall nobody should need to fall into, especially when the solution is just around the corner.

Well said, Mockingbird. It truly is a shame that the oralists will not listen to the deaf experience.

 

[jillio]

I looked it up and my State school for the Deaf was testing at 10-35% of the national average. Remember this is a program that has a bi-bi school comprised of about 80% Deaf of Deaf. I don't know what conclusions should be drawn from that.

And how is it rating in terms of the rest of your state? 10-35% is quite a variance.

 

[shel90]

What's more valuable than the experiences of deaf people who have lived through it especially those children who end up with language delays? I guess they chose to ignore that as long as a few deaf people were successful with the oral-only approach.

 

[jillio]

What's more valuable than the experiences of deaf people who have lived through it especially those children who end up with language delays? I guess they chose to ignore that as long as a few deaf people were successful with the oral-only approach.

Nothing is more valuable than that when deciding what it is a deaf child needs.

 

[rick48]

Actually Rick it IS a fact that oral only can inhibit sucess in life. Not oral TRAINING but oral ONLY. Yes, your experiance is that your child has done well....but think about it. How well would someone do if they were gifted in one thing, but defincent in another way, and their life's focus was lived soley to remediate that definecy?

Show me your proof that the oral only approach limits a child from reaching their full potential, not anecedotal stories, but proof.

 

[rick48]

Actually, it is fact based on empirical data. Subjective value data is what the oralists use. They subjectively believe, based ont heir own experience, not the experience of the deaf, that oral only is more valuable than an environment that permits 100% access to communication.

That is your typical response to say it is based on "empirical data" that you are never able to cite or produce. No matter how many times you say it, still does not make it so. Cite your proof that the oral only approach limits a person from reaching their full potential and BTW add in your "proof" for this additional subjective opinion that you are so fond of tossing around:

"Oral only environments create problems that an individual must spend a lifetime remediating."

As for your unsubstantiated opinions, that you like to mask as facts, not going to argue with them but if that is what you believe is the basis for why parents choose ultimately an oral only approach then you are mistaken.

BTW for the deaf child of hearing parents who does not have oral skills where does an "environment that permits 100% access to communication" exist? Once they leave the house, is it in their neighborhood? With there extended family? Is it in their local schools? Does it exists in their community? Will they find it in the hundreds of daily encounters they will be confronted with? In their workplace?

Again, while you insist on a one size fits all philosophy for deaf children, that not surprisingly, is based on how you ultimately raised your deaf child, I prefer to maintain that there is no one way to raise any child, even a deaf one. Each child is unique, so is each family situation and what works best for my child is not necessarily the best approach for your child.