Is it ever ok for kids NOT to use ASL?

[rick48]

I looked it up and my State school for the Deaf was testing at 10-35% of the national average. Remember this is a program that has a bi-bi school comprised of about 80% Deaf of Deaf. I don't know what conclusions should be drawn from that.

That it is an academically inferior school that is failing its students miserably.

 

[Byrdie714]

That it is an academically inferior school that is failing its students miserably.

What is academically inferior? Providing a bi-bi approach?

 

[jillio]

That is your typical response to say it is based on "empirical data" that you are never able to cite or produce. No matter how many times you say it, still does not make it so. Cite your proof that the oral only approach limits a person from reaching their full potential and BTW add in your "proof" for this additional subjective opinion that you are so fond of tossing around:

"Oral only environments create problems that an individual must spend a lifetime remediating."

As for your unsubstantiated opinions, that you like to mask as facts, not going to argue with them but if that is what you believe is the basis for why parents choose ultimately an oral only approach then you are mistaken.

BTW for the deaf child of hearing parents who does not have oral skills where does an "environment that permits 100% access to communication" exist?

Again, while you insist on a one size fits all philosophy for deaf children, that not surprisingly, is based on how you ultimately raised your deaf child,
I prefer to maintain that there is no one way to raise any child, even a deaf one. Each child is unique, so is each family situation and what works best for my child is not necessarily the best approach for your child.

I've produced the empirical evidence time and time again. Just because you choose to ignore it doesn't mean it hasn't been produced.

The person lacking any evidence what so ever for their claims is you.

Open your eyes and the proof is all around you. The Deaf/deaf have tried to relate their experiences to you over and over again. Unfortuantely, your ears are plugged and your eyes are closed.

To answer your question: It is quite simple, Rick. ASL provides 100% access to communication, whether the child is deaf of deaf or deaf of hearing. Duh.

Is your concern what works best for the child, or what works best for the parent? Obviously, what is best for the parent is your primary concern.

 

[Byrdie714]

Synopsis: Faire Jour posed the question.

Everyone but Daredevel said no.

Faire Jour said "is so."

Everyone else said "is not."

Faire Jour cursed one person and got banned. Got unbanned and is back at it.

Maybe soon 1000.

U asked the question and got our opinions and feelings....

ASL is a language and many of us don't see how it is ok to deprive deaf children full access to a language just like hearing kids aren't..

Gosh, if I went to a hearing forum and started a thread asking if it is ok for hearing kids not to use spoken language and just use ASL instead...u bet people would go against that idea..

Why should it be different for deaf children?

They have no one to oppress and decides to take it out on the most vulnerable--the deaf.

That is your typical response to say it is based on "empirical data" that you are never able to cite or produce. No matter how many times you say it, still does not make it so. Cite your proof that the oral only approach limits a person from reaching their full potential and BTW add in your "proof" for this additional subjective opinion that you are so fond of tossing around:

"Oral only environments create problems that an individual must spend a lifetime remediating."

As for your unsubstantiated opinions, that you like to mask as facts, not going to argue with them but if that is what you believe is the basis for why parents choose ultimately an oral only approach then you are mistaken.

BTW for the deaf child of hearing parents who does not have oral skills where does an "environment that permits 100% access to communication" exist? Once they leave the house, is it in their neighborhood? With there extended family? Is it in their local schools? Does it exists in their community? Will they find it in the hundreds of daily encounters they will be confronted with? In their workplace?

Again, while you insist on a one size fits all philosophy for deaf children, that not surprisingly, is based on how you ultimately raised your deaf child, I prefer to maintain that there is no one way to raise any child, even a deaf one. Each child is unique, so is each family situation and what works best for my child is not necessarily the best approach for your child.

:roll: Google is your friend. You go to Google and type in what you want to research. Any deaf person can do it. Any hearing person can do it. It's that simple.

I've produced the empirical evidence time and time again. Just because you choose to ignore it doesn't mean it hasn't been produced.

The person lacking any evidece what so ever for their claims is you.

To answer your question: It is quite simple, Rick. ASL provides 100% access to communication, whether the child is deaf of deaf or deaf of hearing. Duh.

 

[jillio]

That it is an academically inferior school that is failing its students miserably.

And where does your school district rate?

 

[Byrdie714]

The other thing they are forgetting is that the Deaf schools isn't the only ones that are hurting--so are the public mainstream schools.

 

[jillio]

The other thing they are forgetting is that the Deaf schools isn't the only ones that are hurting--so are the public mainstream schools.

Exactly. They say the average deaf student has a reading level of 4-5th grade. They fail to mention that the average hearing student has a reading level of 6th grade at graduation.:roll:

 

[Byrdie714]

And they don't even know geogrpahy!

 

[shel90]

Exactly. They say the average deaf student has a reading level of 4-5th grade. They fail to mention that the average hearing student has a reading level of 6th grade at graduation.:roll:

And that is in their 2nd language! How many hearin people can read in a different language and past the 4th grade level of the 2nd language?

 

[jillio]

And that is in their 2nd language! How many hearin people can read in a different language and past the 4th grade level of the 2nd language?

I dare say most of the ones complaining about deaf ed. and recommending oral only. After all, the oralists won't even take the time to learn ASL to benefit the children. Chances are they haven't developed fluency in any other language but the one that is easiest for them...spoken English. Especially since their average reading level is only 6th grade at graduation.

 

[jillio]

And they don't even know geogrpahy!

Quite true. And their math skills are lacking, as well.

 

[Byrdie714]

Quite true. And their math skills are lacking, as well.

I was talking to a potential customer who made the point that they were Washington native and didn't know where we were at!

I figure if one is living in the state--you would attempt to learn as much as you can about your state.

And...he was a doctor!

 

[faire_jour]

And how is it rating in terms of the rest of your state? 10-35% is quite a variance.

The lowest "average score" for 5th grade was about 10%, the highest was under 35%. These were the IOWA test scores for last year.

We have at least two dozen schools that scored in the 75% or above, with 2 elementary schools in the high 90's.

 

[Jolie77]

I was talking to a potential customer who made the point that they were Washington native and didn't know where we were at!

I figure if one is living in the state--you would attempt to learn as much as you can about your state.

And...he was a doctor!

:jaw:

You're serious? Wow, tis all the irony.

 

[Byrdie714]

The lowest "average score" for a grade was about 10%, the highest was under 35%. These were the IOWA test scores for last year.

We have at least two dozen schools that scored in the 75% or above, with 2 elementary schools in the high 90's.

Remember that certain school districts have school levies. The ones that past the most usually have a higher test score than those that fail their levies.

Don't be making assumptions as each school district is individually tailered to their community.

For the state school--it's usually on the low end of funding due to the government's ignoramous of deaf education as they prefer to "just pass them" without utilizing the full potential of the deaf students. Regardless if they are CI users or not.

 

[Byrdie714]

:jaw:

You're serious? Wow, tis all the irony.

Yeah scary!

 

[jillio]

The lowest "average score" for 5th grade was about 10%, the highest was under 35%. These were the IOWA test scores for last year.

We have at least two dozen schools that scored in the 75% or above, with 2 elementary schools in the high 90's.

Your percentages aren't telling me anything. 10% and 35% of what?

 

[jillio]

Remember that certain school districts have school levies. The ones that past the most usually have a higher test score than those that fail their levies.

Don't be making assumptions as each school district is individually tailered to their community.

For the state school--it's usually on the low end of funding due to the government's ignoramous of deaf education as they prefer to "just pass them" without utilizing the full potential of the deaf students. Regardless if they are CI users or not.

Not to mention the funding dependent upon NCLB. The poorer school districts (the ones that need it) actually receive less funding under the act. The more successful and wealthy schools receive more funding. It has had the opposite effect of what was supposedly intended.

Likewise, if IOWA tests are being used with deaf students, there can be some questions regarding reliability and validity.

 

[faire_jour]

Remember that certain school districts have school levies. The ones that past the most usually have a higher test score than those that fail their levies.

Don't be making assumptions as each school district is individually tailered to their community.

For the state school--it's usually on the low end of funding due to the government's ignoramous of deaf education as they prefer to "just pass them" without utilizing the full potential of the deaf students. Regardless if they are CI users or not.

The 20 highest schools are in 7 different school districts. My daughter could attend any of 3 easily (open enrollement) and 2 more with a little effort.

 

[jillio]

The 20 highest schools are in 7 different school districts. My daughter could attend any of 3 easily (open enrollement) and 2 more with a little effort.

And you haven't enrolled her why?