"In-between"

[JadeSkye]

My graduating class at TSD was around 25 including the multihandicapped and repeat seniors. Then my graduating class at MSSD was around 150. Then my public school graduating class... over 1,000. Numbers don't mean anything.

More often than not, they are NOT trained. That is what often happens to mainstreaming special education classes. It's not Deaf ed but special ed which means they lump EVERYBODY with issues in there. Especially the low-functioning special needs kids. Special ed is one size fits all in the public schools while it's not at the Deaf schools.

"I'm not emotionally disturbed. Why am I in a class for the emotionally distrubed?" I remember asking those questions back in the day.

I guess by emphasizing the size of my graduating class I was really trying to emphasize how small our school and surrounding area is (we are definitely not "suburban" or "city" by any means). I actually think smaller class sizes are better for education but also know that just because a class size is small does not mean that the education IS better.

And I totally agree that mainstream special ed is basically a catch all for EVERYTHING! I had actually planned on becoming a special ed teacher before I just got burnt out on school and decided to quit college (not the brightest idea I've ever had but thankfully I have found a good job where experience counts more than degrees- at least at least at this point in time). We learned about a lot of different types of "issues" that kids might have and honestly, I don't remember once hearing about deaf or hard of hearing... And I observed and subbed for some special ed classes and never once encountered a deaf or hard of hearing student- most of the issues were learning disabilities or mental disabilities and occasionally other disabilities (CP or once there was a kid with MD). Granted, that was ten years ago (a little less time since I subbed but still over five years) but I don't think it has changed much, at least in our area... And I don't want my daughter to have to ask herself "why am I in here, I'm not [fill in the blank]?"

 

[TXgolfer]

These would worry me a lot too.

Deaf Elementary School (FSDB) - St. Augustine, Florida - FL - School overview

Deaf Elementary School (FSDB) Test Scores - St. Augustine, Florida - FL

 

[JadeSkye]

Thanks for the information, TXgolfer. I will look into that some more... Although, I don't necessarily think that that means it is not a good school. The areas that have the highest turnover (business services, transportation, and food services) probably see high turnover in a lot of places (food service ANYWHERE sees very high turnover and receives pretty low pay- i.e. fast food, restaurants, etc.). They are probably also the areas that are making less than $23,000 a year which would account for a good portion of that 30% I would think.

 

[JadeSkye]

Going to look at the other links you posted... I replied to your previous post while you must have been posting those links...

 

[ecp]

I'm actually glad you guys brought up how hard it is to deal with sound without your hearing aids. I just posted in the parents section asking for ideas on how to help her deal with sounds when out in public. It seems that since she has been exhibiting signs of not being able to hear well it has been so much harder to take her out in public. She inevitably gets cranky or screeches because she wants something or just plain doesn't "listen" (she was never like this before- she was always just content to sit in the cart and talk with us and so forth, which I guess she really can't do now). Do you have any ideas on how I can make things easier/smoother for EVERYONE involved when taking her out in public? Is there anything I can do for her to make being in public less stressful?

Other people seem to be blaming normal childhood development BUT when a child seems to have pain with some sounds or actually fears exposure to sound, it isn't normal.
Did you mean "how hard it is to deal with sounds WITH your hearing aids?" Instead of "without your hearing aids"?


With my hearing aids some noises feel so loud that they make me flinch. If I hadn't just turned 27, I might throw a fit.
I hate breaks between classes at my graduate school because 70 people all talking in a lecture hall+my superpower hearing aids=not a comfortable situation.

Also, after wearing my hearing aids all day I really enjoy having some quiet time. My fiancé knows this and usually let's me cook dinner (he does dishes) or "chill out" until I feel like thinking again.

 

[ecp]

About schools- you can fight school districts. It is a little or not widely known fact but if you make noise, the district will listen.
You can request a certain number of hours per week in speech therapy or with a teacher of the deaf or both.
You can request a qualified interpreter.
See Hands & Voices for so many resources about deaf education and parent involvement.

 

[cdaigle430]

I don't really know where to begin. I have posted a few times about my 3 year old daughter and her sudden (or seemingly sudden) hearing loss this past December. You can find those posts in the "parents" section if you like. I am posting this question/rant/what-have-you in this section because I think that this would fall under Deaf/HOH culture and issues.

Quick background: we finally had the sedated ABR done yesterday and it showed a moderate/moderately severe loss in both ears. (The audiogram starts at either 250 or 500hz and around 40db and slopes down to the right ending around 2000hz and 80db- I didn't get a copy of it then but next time we go back I will ask for a copy for my records, I basically memorized the begin and end points because I wasn't sure if they would give us a copy right away.) Her right ear is slightly worse than her left ear, except a the highest pitch where the left ear becomes slightly worse than the right. The audiologist who did her test (we have not been assigned an actual audiologist for her yet) sounded confident that hearing aids would "fix" things and that she will be fine to go to a mainstream school and just need speech therapy.

My issues: I am really not sure how "bad" her hearing loss is. In terms of being hearing or being stone deaf, it looks like she falls in the middle- she would be considered hard-of-hearing. I want to keep taking ASL classes like I have been (through our state Deaf school- Florida School for the Deaf and Blind) and I really think it would be beneficial for her to learn it as well and have a good basis in ASL and speech. I still want to look into sending her to FSDB as an option, because I honestly think they would probably offer a better education to her than our local school district (we live in a pretty rural area) and they understand working with Deaf/HOH kids. I liked the ENT and the audiologist we saw BUT they both came across to me as being a bit "audist" (the ENT talked about how great advances in technology are and how it could make her basically hearing and something about deafness being a disability (I had stopped listening for the most part to keep myself from saying too much- I understand the concept of deafness being a disability and to an extent I think it does make things harder for some but I don't really look at it as a majorly limiting disability) and then the audiologist basically said that she wouldn't need sign language OR the deaf school, she would do perfectly fine with hearing aids and mainstream school). I don't know if I have been reading too much and have "over-sensitized" myself to the worries of dealing with "audism" for my child (the rest of our family is hearing in case you need to know or wondered) or what. Then I was talking to my coworker today and telling her about the outcome of the test. I started telling her about the "audism" that I picked up on and she said something to the effect that I seemed to be resisting the idea that my daughter's hearing wasn't "as bad" as I had prepared myself for it to be (I always plan for the "worst" in a situation). I admit that since yesterday I have been fighting with myself about this idea "why are you still thinking of the idea that she should go to a deaf school and learn sign language- it's not "that" bad"... But I don't really think that my feelings are because I am in some weird way "disappointed" that she is not completely deaf... (Gosh this is hard to explain, and getting quite long- please bare with me and feel free to ask questions to clarify because I am really struggling with this right now!) I almost feel right now like it is going to be harder in a way for her to be hard of hearing than actually deaf because of issues like this. I am afraid that the hearing world will look at me like I am crazy for "imposing a deaf life (or something to that effect)" on a child that is "almost hearing". And I am afraid that the Deaf world is going to look at me as some kind of weird wanna-be or whatever, that is just looking for a reason to be a part of their culture (or something equally strange). I really feel like we are at an "in-between" space right now and I don't know what to do... SO- I guess I am just really looking to see what you guys think. Maybe there is someone on here that has been HOH like this as a kid and they have some insight into things. Or maybe you could just give me your thoughts on the situation (you can even call me crazy if you need to- if enough people do it then maybe it will help me make a decision ). I almost feel like I am spinning in circles faster than I was BEFORE we had the answers to how much of a hearing loss she has!!

I am aldhoh (adult late deafened-HOH) and I dont think your making a bad descision but I think it would be better to diversify your child rather than take one path alone. For example, if you raise your child as deaf then most likely she will become part of the deaf culture alone-not a bad thing but it could be better to also raise her among the hearing culture even if it might mean CIs. Childrens minds are like sponges and she will have no problems doing both like learning among the hearing and ASL\Lip reading.

That way she can communicate among both cultures and decide later in life which path to take?

 

[Bottesini]

Other people seem to be blaming normal childhood development BUT when a child seems to have pain with some sounds or actually fears exposure to sound, it isn't normal.
Did you mean "how hard it is to deal with sounds WITH your hearing aids?" Instead of "without your hearing aids"?


With my hearing aids some noises feel so loud that they make me flinch. If I hadn't just turned 27, I might throw a fit.
I hate breaks between classes at my graduate school because 70 people all talking in a lecture hall+my superpower hearing aids=not a comfortable situation.

Also, after wearing my hearing aids all day I really enjoy having some quiet time. My fiancé knows this and usually let's me cook dinner (he does dishes) or "chill out" until I feel like thinking again.

ANd other people would certainly agree with the bolded.

But since she isn't aided and the mother was talking about something completely different, it just looks like you are sniping at others to be nasty...

 

[deafdyke]

I get the impression that deafdyke thinks that Deaf Schools are always the best choice regardless of level of loss.

I get the impression that you have not dealt with mainstream/inclusive education for a few decades. I also think you're extremely audist in thinking that HOH kids shouldn't attend Deaf School or dhh programs.

 

[deafdyke]

More often than not, they are NOT trained. That is what often happens to mainstreaming special education classes. It's not Deaf ed but special ed which means they lump EVERYBODY with issues in there. Especially the low-functioning special needs kids. Special ed is one size fits all in the public schools while it's not at the Deaf schools.

"I'm not emotionally disturbed. Why am I in a class for the emotionally distrubed?" I remember asking those questions back in the day.

*nods* Exactly! The trouble with mainstream sped, is that while it's good for kids who have high incidence issues (ie mental disability, ADD, high functioning autism, learning disability, emotionally disturbed, kids who have "just" mobility issues like wheelchairs/walkers ,etc) the teachers (even the sped teachers) generally don't have a lot of experience with lower incidence kids. I also have a learning disability (math related) and I do have functional math abilty due to mainstream special ed.
I do agree with specialized public school classes specificly for low incidence kids....I'm all for continuum of placement, but I simply think that for low incidence kids, they should start out in specialized schools/classes and THEN slowly transistion to the mainstream.

 

[deafdyke]

I am aldhoh (adult late deafened-HOH) and I dont think your making a bad descision but I think it would be better to diversify your child rather than take one path alone. For example, if you raise your child as deaf then most likely she will become part of the deaf culture alone-not a bad thing but it could be better to also raise her among the hearing culture even if it might mean CIs. Childrens minds are like sponges and she will have no problems doing both like learning among the hearing and ASL\Lip reading.

That way she can communicate among both cultures and decide later in life which path to take?

Sigh............Cdaigle, the overwhelming majority of hoh and even DEAF children already have tons of exposure to the hearing world. It's pretty much the default for HOH kids, that we get hearing aids/CIs and speech therapy and an automatic kneejerk placement into the Hearing World. Nobody is saying " do ASL only" or " be totally separatist"

 

[CSign]

I get the impression that you have not dealt with mainstream/inclusive education for a few decades. I also think you're extremely audist in thinking that HOH kids shouldn't attend Deaf School or dhh programs.

From your posts it's clear you haven't really been around the table much either in the last decade or more.

Jane said nothing about HH students not attending a DHH placement. Throwing out "Audist" doesn't change things, and her perspective is certainly not Audist.

Jane is right, after all. It is you who always says, "deaf schools rock!!!!" and are persistently encouraging sighted DHH children with additional needs to attend a school for the deaf and blind.

 

[JadeSkye]

I am aldhoh (adult late deafened-HOH) and I dont think your making a bad descision but I think it would be better to diversify your child rather than take one path alone. For example, if you raise your child as deaf then most likely she will become part of the deaf culture alone-not a bad thing but it could be better to also raise her among the hearing culture even if it might mean CIs. Childrens minds are like sponges and she will have no problems doing both like learning among the hearing and ASL\Lip reading.

That way she can communicate among both cultures and decide later in life which path to take?

I just wanted to note that she will most definitely be raised among hearing culture because EVERYONE else in our family/extended family/friends/etc. is hearing. It is not like I would be shipping her off to a residential program at the school where she would live in the Deaf culture 24/7- she would only be attending the school during the day but on weekends and after school she will most likely be completely immersed in a hearing world (unless we attend Deaf events, which I do hope to become comfortable doing in the future but my ASL is not such that I would be completely comfortable at this moment). There will be no lack of "hearing" experience for her- I think my main concern in all this has been how to 1) best accommodate her needs as HOH and 2) provide her with a strong foundation in ASL and possibly Deaf culture in the event that her hearing worsens or she eventually decides that she feels more comfortable in the Deaf world. And of course, what route would possibly be the best one to take as far as education considering that a lot of mainstream classes might not be equipped to work well with dhh kids.

 

[NitroHonda]

I just wanted to note that she will most definitely be raised among hearing culture because EVERYONE else in our family/extended family/friends/etc. is hearing. It is not like I would be shipping her off to a residential program at the school where she would live in the Deaf culture 24/7- she would only be attending the school during the day but on weekends and after school she will most likely be completely immersed in a hearing world (unless we attend Deaf events, which I do hope to become comfortable doing in the future but my ASL is not such that I would be completely comfortable at this moment). There will be no lack of "hearing" experience for her- I think my main concern in all this has been how to 1) best accommodate her needs as HOH and 2) provide her with a strong foundation in ASL and possibly Deaf culture in the event that her hearing worsens or she eventually decides that she feels more comfortable in the Deaf world. And of course, what route would possibly be the best one to take as far as education considering that a lot of mainstream classes might not be equipped to work well with dhh kids.

I'm originally from Houston. I live in Austin now. I hate it here but I'm here for one reason and one reason only... I'm not ready to send my kid off. He's only 11 (been at TSD since he was 2). So I moved here. That was all I needed. I want him at TSD but I don't want to ship him off either. Hearing culture, Deaf culture... it don't matter. Your daughter needs her family whatever culture they are.

 

[deafdyke]

These would worry me a lot too.

Deaf Elementary School (FSDB) - St. Augustine, Florida - FL - School overview

Deaf Elementary School (FSDB) Test Scores - St. Augustine, Florida - FL

On the other hand, you do have to understand that the majority of kids at Deaf Schools transferred there from other programs. Not to mention that you do need to compare those listings to OTHER special ed students, rather then regular ed. Mainstream special ed tends to be rather low achieving as well.
Besides, even if the elementary school test scores are kinda not exactly the best, JadeSkye can STILL send her daughter to FSDB for preschool/kindergarten and maybe even first grade to give her a good foundation for mainstreaming. Heck, generally at the larger Deaf Schools there are usually a substational subpopulation of strongly academic kids...heck even at the dhh schools that mostly serve mentally disabled kids, you'll see some kids who are strongly academic.

 

[TXgolfer]

On the other hand, you do have to understand that the majority of kids at Deaf Schools transferred there from other programs. Not to mention that you do need to compare those listings to OTHER special ed students, rather then regular ed. Mainstream special ed tends to be rather low achieving as well.
Besides, even if the elementary school test scores are kinda not exactly the best, JadeSkye can STILL send her daughter to FSDB for preschool/kindergarten and maybe even first grade to give her a good foundation for mainstreaming. Heck, generally at the larger Deaf Schools there are usually a substational subpopulation of strongly academic kids...heck even at the dhh schools that mostly serve mentally disabled kids, you'll see some kids who are strongly academic.

She could....... I am just providing the facts.

I sure would send my kid to a school with a rating like that. I would home school first.

 

[deafdyke]

But as always, check out the school. Yes, every kid is different.....BUT, if there's the chance to attend a Deaf School/program or other specialized school/program for early childhood, for a condition or a disability that is low incidence then a parent should take it. Say if JadeSkye's daughter was blind, and she was asking if she should send her daughter to the Blind School, my response would be the same. The specialized training, education, resources at a specialized school, especially for early childhood tends to far outshine the specialized training, education and resources in an inclusive mainstream setting. Make sense now? I am advocating a strong base of a few years in a specialized educational environment.......that way you KNOW that the kid will get more then 15 mintues of ASL, and the school isn't ripping them off by providing a bare minimal accomondations FAPE.

 

[TXgolfer]

But as always, check out the school. Yes, every kid is different.....BUT, if there's the chance to attend a Deaf School/program or other specialized school/program for early childhood, for a condition or a disability that is low incidence then a parent should take it. Say if JadeSkye's daughter was blind, and she was asking if she should send her daughter to the Blind School, my response would be the same. The specialized training, education, resources at a specialized school, especially for early childhood tends to far outshine the specialized training, education and resources in an inclusive mainstream setting. Make sense now? I am advocating a strong base of a few years in a specialized educational environment.......that way you KNOW that the kid will get more then 15 mintues of ASL, and the school isn't ripping them off by providing a bare minimal accomondations FAPE.

Your opinion has been clear for a long time. We disagree.

 

[deafdyke]

She could....... I am just providing the facts.

I sure would send my kid to a school with a rating like that. I would home school first.

Yes, but are you trained in Deaf Ed? I doubt it. That really wouldn't be the best situation. You don't know how to teach a deaf child do you?
I know the Deaf Schools don't always have the best reputation.....but then again test scores don't always reflect the achievement levels of the students....b/c again a heck of a lot of the students there are transfers from the mainstream. Also the score is for the elementary school as a whole. It doesn't say anything about the preschool/kindergarten/early childhood......Even at the Deaf or specialized schools where there are a lot of mentally handicapped/kids who really fell through the cracks in the mainstream, the early childhood programming tends to be really good.

 

[NitroHonda]

On the other hand, you do have to understand that the majority of kids at Deaf Schools transferred there from other programs. Not to mention that you do need to compare those listings to OTHER special ed students, rather then regular ed. Mainstream special ed tends to be rather low achieving as well.
Besides, even if the elementary school test scores are kinda not exactly the best, JadeSkye can STILL send her daughter to FSDB for preschool/kindergarten and maybe even first grade to give her a good foundation for mainstreaming. Heck, generally at the larger Deaf Schools there are usually a substational subpopulation of strongly academic kids...heck even at the dhh schools that mostly serve mentally disabled kids, you'll see some kids who are strongly academic.

I call 'em mainstreaming rejects. I was one of them too as I entered TSD while in middle school. It's absolutely true. So many of those kids are mainstreaming failures and they are shipped to the Deaf school as a last resort... which ULTIMATELY hurts the numbers that TXgolfer looks for. Look at their ECE program before you guage their high school numbers. Indiana was a school that's not known for their quality of education but if you look at their ECE program... be prepared to be blown away. Honestly... it's unfair that the rejects drag our success stories down.