i asked this elsewhere..

Beach girl said:
True, but the amount of "some" in each category is really important. The vast majority do not have problems with devices or implants of various sorts (I'm not just talking about CIs) in their bodies. It's not like it's 50/50. For a given individual, it's either 100% fine or it's absolutely not fine and has to come out.

But taking into consideration the whole universe of people who have had surgeries requiring some sort of plastic or metal or other product in their bodies, if you know that better than 99%, say, have no problems, while less than 1% do, wouldn't that make a difference in your thinking versus, say,
20% are successful, versus 80% unsuccesful?

I'm just saying it's important to know what those numbers are, success vs. failure, before saying "anything foreign in the body is bad news."
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I think Jiro is reacting to very concept of implanting a CI and not the actual risk of surgery and successful implantation/activation. While CI's have become more accepted in the Deaf community, implanting children is still a hot topic. We might be better to clarify the group we are talking about. :hmm:
 
Beach girl said:
True, but the amount of "some" in each category is really important. The vast majority do not have problems with devices or implants of various sorts (I'm not just talking about CIs) in their bodies. It's not like it's 50/50. For a given individual, it's either 100% fine or it's absolutely not fine and has to come out.

But taking into consideration the whole universe of people who have had surgeries requiring some sort of plastic or metal or other product in their bodies, if you know that better than 99%, say, have no problems, while less than 1% do, wouldn't that make a difference in your thinking versus, say,
20% are successful, versus 80% unsuccesful?

I'm just saying it's important to know what those numbers are, success vs. failure, before saying "anything foreign in the body is bad news."
Click to expand...

I take it that you're willing to take that kind of medical statistical risk for your own children?
 
Jiro said:
CI carries more risk than HA. it's a permanent option.
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Well, now you are talking about medical risk.

You were talking about social risk. I questioned if social risk was "higher" for kids with CIs than those with HAs.
 
Statistics. Take a group of small children, say, about a hundred of them, and implant them. See who has problems and see who will die.
Acceptable risk, acceptable.
:roll:
 
Bottesini said:
With what Netrox talked about with the biofilm and potential for staph, I say "wouldn't do that on a bet!"
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I can sympathize.

I put off having a hysterectomy for probably 3 years beyond when it was first recommended to me, because of potential complications and not wanting to say bye-bye to all my internal girl bits. I am a very slow decider myself when it comes to major surgery where it's not absolutely essential right that minute.

After I did though, I thought "sheesh, this is great, no more pain and aggravation. What in the world was I waiting for!!!"

So - just saying - it's important to take everything into consideration, but everyone will still have their own point of saying "OK, benefits are greater than the risks here," or vice versa. Facts and emotions both have to be taken into account.

For me personally, I start with the facts and work through to emotions. Others might make decisions the other way around, emotions first and then facts.
 
Jiro said:
CI carries more risk than HA. it's a permanent option.
Click to expand...

yes, ALL surgeries carry more risk than non surgery. Might be good to look at the benefits of such surgery verses other options.
 
I feel like I am standing on neutral ground while 50 foot waves are building up on both sides of me... Hold on while I get my scuba gear, I'm going to need it.
 
Beach girl said:
Of course it matters

There are nearly 40,000 deaths from car accidents in the U.S. every year. Does that stop you from driving a car?

There is a small number of women who die in childbirth in the U.S. every year. Will that stop you from ever having kids?

Some kids drown in backyard pools. Will that stop someone from having a pool, if they don't have kids and only have visiting nieces and nephews from time to time?

There is a risk of investment loss (as we've seen last week!) if you put money in the stock market. Long-term, will that stop you from investing?

My point is: for nearly every human activity - even staying home! - there is some level of risk and some level of benefit. It's important to know the probability of a given risk and the probability of the corresponding benefit, and decide accordingly.
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40,000 deaths from car a year hm.... lets see.

that's a 1 in 7500 people a year that dies from car related incidents in the USA.



This is a study that shows in a group study of 4264 children who got a CI.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.105...ype=ref&ijkey=FGbgCPw7gQwjk&#t=articleResults

26 of them got infected, 3 of them twice. one of them died.

19 out of the 29 of these cases were reported. (this makes one go :hmm:)

So with your comparison... If everyone in America got a CI, there would be a higher rate of death than car related deaths.

*yawn*
 
Jiro said:
I take it that you're willing to take that kind of medical statistical risk for your own children?
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If I have any children at this point, it would be a medical miracle!!

OK, seriously - for me personally, my prime child-bearing years would have been 25 to 35 years ago. If I had had a deaf child at that point, I probably would NOT have done a CI. The technology was still iffy, the surgery was very new, and I think I would have been too scared to have been an early-adopter.

If I were a new mother today, I certainly would very seriously consider it. I can't say for sure what I would do, but taking everything into account, medically and socially, I would certainly consider it a viable option. But of course would try HAs first, as everyone recommends.
 
I'm not sure we can truly gauge the overall risk of a CI in children without understanding the probability of benefit (benefit is also vague and needs to be defined).
 
Hmmm.... nice post, PFH, but a bit misleading.

Can someone say TINY SAMPLE?

I am willing to bet that the one person who died had a pre-existing condition (heart problem, perhaps?).

I'll personally never understand operating on a kid who already has health problems to get a CI.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Hmmm.... nice post, PFH, but a bit misleading.

Can someone say TINY SAMPLE?

I am willing to bet that the one person who died had a pre-existing condition (heart problem, perhaps?).

I'll personally never understand operating on a kids who already has health problems to get a CI.
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cha ching........ that.

BTW - Tiny sample? 4000 children is a large percentage of the CI community here in America. Much bigger of a sampling pool than many other researches that have been conducted.
 
Plus the fact that EVERY person that receives a CI has a different experience. How can you judge the potential of success if you do not even have a clear idea of what you should be expecting? I was extremely lucky with my CI. I can use a telephone. I know plenty of others with the same background as I had and cannot use a telephone with their CI.
 
Cheetah said:
Plus the fact that EVERY person that receives a CI has a different experience. How can you judge the potential of success if you do not even have a clear idea of what you should be expecting? I was extremely lucky with my CI. I can use a telephone. I know plenty of others with the same background as I had and cannot use a telephone with their CI.
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Watch how they insert the electrode into the cochlea and you will see why it's so different for everyone. It's no science how they do it.
 
posts from hell said:
cha ching........ that.

BTW - Tiny sample? 4000 children is a large percentage of the CI community here in America. Much bigger of a sampling pool than many other researches that have been conducted.
Click to expand...

Yep...

It may be the largest sample in terms of research thus far, but still nonetheless when it makes such a HUGE statistical difference if you simply took away only 1 death.

One death doesn't count = Perfect record.
One death counts = Statistically. kids die from CI more than car accidents.

See my point?
 
posts from hell said:
They're not the only ones. I know a person who was modeling for a living and she was making a killing.... Paralyzed face by the CI. Killed her career.
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That's what I am talking about kids are too young, their nerves, skins, blood, muscles are too new and too fresh why cut them right away..

I had breast reduction and c section (2X). First, I had B reduction and discovered how much nerves that I lost and could feel numb in some area od my chest that I did not know!! When I learned that i needed a csection. i wasn't too thrilled that I knew I would lose more nerves and was worried how much numb i got. I cant image having more numb in the head. So I don't feel comfortable the idea of seeing small kids to get cut in the head and lose some nerves that become more numb. :(
 
Daredevel7 said:
Yep...

It may be the largest sample in terms of research thus far, but still nonetheless when it makes such a HUGE statistical difference if you simply took away only 1 death.

One death doesn't count = Perfect record.
One death counts = Statistically. kids die from CI more than car accidents.

See my point?
Click to expand...

How many deaths do you want to have an accurate statistical pool?
 
Cheetah said:
I think Jiro is reacting to very concept of implanting a CI and not the actual risk of surgery and successful implantation/activation. While CI's have become more accepted in the Deaf community, implanting children is still a hot topic. We might be better to clarify the group we are talking about. :hmm:
Click to expand...

of course Deaf Community accepts any deafies - CI/HA/none/etc. We all share same issue - false hope by our hearing parents. Too many parents out there are misguided or misinformed but few parents like Grendel & frankiesmom used BiBi approach and included ASL.

Medical Risk is hardly a concern for me. I've had surgeries and I'm cool with it but for me, I have a HUGE moral & ethical problem with implanting infants! That's just wrong on many levels. I don't want to do 50-50 risk and find out later on that my own child hates me for it. Simple - let the child be old enough to make a decision for himself.
 
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