Hearies view on a CI kid... its a bummer

[jillio]

I wonder HOW possibly can you change your children hearing??

Fuzzy

How can you possibly change a child's deafness?

 

[jillio]

Pardon me? "..here we go again..."??

I'm more or less implying a 'fact' that there is a 'choice'...(when it comes to a gift) I don't recall saying anything about implantation, nor early implantation. Please don't 'add' more to it....




~RR

There is a choice to accept the gift of a deaf child, and all the wonderous things that child can teach you.

 

[jillio]

Fuzzy,
I liked those numbers.... and they are reveiling...


Clggy: Join Date: Feb 2005, Posts: 2 996, (3.13 posts per day)

Perhaps, I have more posts, cloggy, because I actually get out of the CI thread and discuss other issues and have other conversations with deaf people. You would do well to do the same. You could actually learn something. As wellas make some headway on actually developing realtionships with some deaf individuals, rather than standing back and holding yourself apart from them.

 

[jillio]

THAT is the root of all the problems in deaf education. :roll:

BINGO!

 

[Maria]

Apart from the fact that you did, there are different levels of acceptance.
(Btw.... you changed the original post from "It obviously to me that you don't love your daughter enough by acceptin' your daughter as deaf." to "Why can't you just accept the deaf children who are not allowed to hear ?"..... noce coverup ... not...)

We accepted that our daughter is deaf. We, as in us parents and our other two children, immediately started with sign language, we had her in a deaf kindergarten. Is that acceptance enough?

Don't you ever assume that hearing parents of deaf children do not accept deafness of their child!! The deafness of a child does not only affect the child. It affects the whole family ! And without acceptance, you cannot move on.

But there is another type of acceptance as well
The acceptance that there's a choice that can be made. That a child can be just as happy growing up deaf without hearing, as deaf with hearing.
That growing up with hearing will expose her to sounds that she will not have when she remains deaf.
And that growing up hearing, implies that she will not experience deafness the way a deaf person experiences deafness. She will be able to turn the sound of and on at will.
The acceptance that YOU need to make a decision if the world is going to adjust to your child, or that the child is going to adjust to the world. Or, if the child is going to adjust to a little part of the world that thinks that deafness is god-given and that ASL is the only way....

All choices are difficult. But all choices involve the acceptance of the childs deafness.

So again... don't judge me, or any parent by the choices they made. You have not been in their shoe, and I hope you never will.

Communication is the main thing. When a child cannot hear, sign will be the mode of communication (after touch and vision)
But remember that at the very young age, signlanguage or ASL is not established. It will be separate signs, without grammar.
When a decision is made for CI, signs will be an important tool in order to stay in constant communication with the child, but in my experience, sign-"language" will might not evolve. It might stagnate at the level where the child prefers speech over sign. It will call you from another room, it will ask questions, and reply to questions with it's back turned to you. It will want to talk on the speakerphone with the grandparents, and with the normal phone later on.
We went through these stages, and were happy to see that Lotte chose her own direction. For now, it is speech. Both in Dutch and Norwegian, and sign for her is something that does not have structure... For her signs are iconics. After all, that's how she used them just before she stopped using them...

But the main thing is to have the communication. When we notice that she is not developing her speech, we might want to add cued speech (being closer to speech.) and if all fails we will add signs, and even sign-language.

For now, we - as in us (the parents and siblings) and Lotte - use speech and it works well. With family, friends, and strangers....

http://www.alldeaf.com/849339-post47.html

You and your hearin' culture/world influence your daughter with her cochlear implants. Where's the deaf culture/world influence ? I don't see any in that from you. You prefer speech over sign language. That was HOW the cochlear implants CHANGE her the way she senses and feels by focusin' on speech/hear. Are you fluently in sign language ?

FYI, I don't attempt to cover up anythin'. It's the way I SEE it and I put myself in a " deaf " child's shoes to see how he/or she feels when it comes to cochlear implants. And, I can see that it is kinda of " puppet " to me in a deaf child's shoes... doctors would love to see that, just because they are playin' God and you follow it. I don't think it is love to me. I think it is " experiment " to me in a deaf child's shoes.

Maybe, doctors are doin' that for their own benefits, not for the hearin' parents' deaf child/ren. It's just " science " thing to them by experientin'. I am sorry if, you see that I opposed this kind of idea. We both don't see the same thing, because YOU are hearin' and I am NOT.

Wait and see how things go from 5 to 10 years. And, also I would like to see what the " cochlear implants' purposes are for ". I have somethin' else in mind you don't wanna to hear.

 

[jillio]

My point exactly. It's a choice.
Both choices should be respected. And when you made the choice, you live with it.

(And if "deafness" is a gift, then one should be able to make a choice there as well... is it really a gift, or is it something you learn to accept, and live with...)[/QUOTE]

It is up to the person to see deafness as a gift or as a burden.

And it is the parent's responsibility to foster those attitudes which lead to the greatest degree of personal adjustment and health. And to see defaness as a gift is definatley an attitude that leads to greater mental and emotional health and fewer burdens than the opposite.

 

[R2D2]

Why are deaf children not allowed to be deaf? Who says it is a must for deaf children to hear? The answer is quite simple...hearing parents who are incapable of stepping outside of their own limited experience as hearing individuals.

However, maybe some hearing parents look at some deaf adults who do enjoy hearing sounds, participating in "hearie" activities such as music and like the ability to switch between being deaf and being able to hear through a CI or hearing aid. Perhaps that influences their final decision. Some deaf people want to be deaf all the time but others like me do not.

I suspect that while some parents out there have grief and acceptance issues, there are others who are making a considerate decision based on the realisation that deaf people are actually quite diverse in their views, choices and preferences. Many parents feel that it's a lot easier to say combine sign and speech, or speech first with sign later than it is to have sign first and then speech later if that is what the deaf person wants. If it was physiologically possible to develop speech from scratch later in life in the same way that an oral deaf adult can learn sign and become fluent in it, I think more parents would happily defer surgery.

 

[Buffalo]

When you were born with healthy red eyes... Your parents replace your color eyes as brown because they do not like to see your color eyes as red. You were innocence to born with healthy visual and color on your eyes. Your parents were not accept for who you were. How do you feel a knife to take your eye balls out of your face.

Same idea, Deaf baby born with healthy and beautiful smile and soft cute skin. They do not deserve to see a knives to cut their head to put a machine inside their skulls to be hearing. They become inhumanize... They did not ask for it... They born healthy.. you were not accepted your daughter as Deaf... She doesn't deserve to carry metal inside her ear...

you were not accept for who she is.... Cochlear Implant is not emergency medical! Deaf is natural and healthy.....

Well said!

You're in denial, as I remember way back you created a thread "When expecting a child, would you want it to be deaf?" You always seem to focus on hearing instead of deaf, having a deaf child is no disappointment than having a no child.
Nobody says you must be deaf, this is just who they are, we are deaf for a reason, deafness is not a weakness but a greatest blessing and greater challenge. God made that choice. If you want to change deafness into a hearing mode, that means you're not accepting who you really are, it's like "Who am I do be deaf and hearing at the same time? Who am I?"
Why do you kept saying we made a choice to let the child be deaf, we did not make that choice, natural made that choice, we just live by that choice that was given to us
You made a choice to implanted your deaf child, and it's you the one who has to live with it, because you made that decision to change your daughter, because you saw deafness as a physical defect.

He only hears what he wants to hear.

Why are deaf children not allowed to be deaf? Who says it is a must for deaf children to hear? The answer is quite simple...hearing parents who are incapable of stepping outside of their own limited experience as hearing individuals.
And what makes you think that it is any less difficult, that it takes any less soul searching, and any less preparation, any less work, dedication, adjustment and effort, to decide not to implant? For a hearing parent to decide to raise a child as a deaf child requires that the hearing parent, also, make changes in life style, attitudes, and previously held beliefs, not to mention being able and willing to engage in constant battles with school adminsitration and hearing society who believes that to hear is better than not hearing.

 

[rick48]

BTW...myson lives independently at this point in time. Does your daughter, or is she still relying on her parents? Which is more dependent?

Whoop dee do!

My daughter is still in college fool.

 

[rick48]

Now there's an unbiased publication!

Being made by a biased anti-ci person.

 

[rick48]

Why does all deaf children must hear? Who ever says it is a "must"? the government or God or just you hearing parents?

Just remember one thing, You don't have the power to rule this world the world belongs to everyone and each of us, hearing or not.

Oh brother, you have got to be kidding with that comment. We are talking about cochlear implants not world domination, get real! That is truly one of the more bizarre comments!

 

[Buffalo]

When you were born with healthy red eyes... Your parents replace your color eyes as brown because they do not like to see your color eyes as red. You were innocence to born with healthy visual and color on your eyes. Your parents were not accept for who you were. How do you feel a knife to take your eye balls out of your face.

Same idea, Deaf baby born with healthy and beautiful smile and soft cute skin. They do not deserve to see a knives to cut their head to put a machine inside their skulls to be hearing. They become inhumanize... They did not ask for it... They born healthy.. you were not accepted your daughter as Deaf... She doesn't deserve to carry metal inside her ear...

you were not accept for who she is.... Cochlear Implant is not emergency medical! Deaf is natural and healthy.....

Well said!

You're in denial, as I remember way back you created a thread "When expecting a child, would you want it to be deaf?" You always seem to focus on hearing instead of deaf, having a deaf child is no disappointment than having a no child.
Nobody says you must be deaf, this is just who they are, we are deaf for a reason, deafness is not a weakness but a greatest blessing and greater challenge. God made that choice. If you want to change deafness into a hearing mode, that means you're not accepting who you really are, it's like "Who am I do be deaf and hearing at the same time? Who am I?"
Why do you kept saying we made a choice to let the child be deaf, we did not make that choice, natural made that choice, we just live by that choice that was given to us
You made a choice to implanted your deaf child, and it's you the one who has to live with it, because you made that decision to change your daughter, because you saw deafness as a physical defect.

He only hears what he wants to hear.

Why are deaf children not allowed to be deaf? Who says it is a must for deaf children to hear? The answer is quite simple...hearing parents who are incapable of stepping outside of their own limited experience as hearing individuals.
And what makes you think that it is any less difficult, that it takes any less soul searching, and any less preparation, any less work, dedication, adjustment and effort, to decide not to implant? For a hearing parent to decide to raise a child as a deaf child requires that the hearing parent, also, make changes in life style, attitudes, and previously held beliefs, not to mention being able and willing to engage in constant battles with school adminsitration and hearing society who believes that to hear is better than not hearing.
And it is the parent's responsibility to foster those attitudes which lead to the greatest degree of personal adjustment and health. And to see defaness as a gift is definatley an attitude that leads to greater mental and emotional health and fewer burdens than the opposite.

Sometimes I see the CI as the easy way out for the hearing parents.
Jillio, thanks for your suggestion that I get "When the Mind Hears" by Harlan Lane. I only read about 35 pages now and it is already quite clear that pro-oralism is there right from the beginning of the deaf education and probably long time before then. It is sickly to read that Abbe Sicard infantilized Massieu's petition when he had it published (just so it fitted his view of the deaf population). Laurent Clerc's education seems to be similiar to mine so there is nothing new under the sun. I have the same problem that Laurent Clerc had in the past. (off topic - I have a strange feeling when seeing the picture of the painting on page 70 of Jacob Rodrigues Pereire and Marie Marois. How often do I get to see an 18th century painting of a deaf person?)

THAT is the root of all the problems in deaf education. :roll:

Yeah! :roll:, too.

 

[rick48]

Perhaps that may be true...however, there's a 'choice'...to choose to accept such a gift.






~RR

And it is the parents' right to make that choice, whatever it may be, for their child.

 

[Buffalo]

Oh brother, you have got to be kidding with that comment. We are talking about cochlear implants not world domination, get real! That is truly one of the more bizarre comments!

The hearing people are already running the world. Look at Gally, until the protest for the Deaf President, Gally was running by hearing people. It is the hearing people who decided on the deaf education. It is high time that we decided for ourselves on education, etc.

 

[rick48]

What's to accept?.

And as a mother of 4 children, you should REALLY be ashamed to say to a parent that he doesn't love his child!!!

And about God... basing your decisions on a 2000+ year old asian myth is not really productive, or constructive.

But let's go that way... Let's assume the god exsists and that she is concerned and loving...
She not only "gave" Lotte deafness, he she also "gave" the world cochlear implants.
Now, don't you think she would be really pissed off if we wouldn't use that gift...

Well said Cloggy. It is truly frightnin' to think that she is actually a parent and thinks like that!

And raisin' the God argument, well it was Jesus who cured the deaf man. Why? Wouldn't an all knowin' God already know that she should not view deafness from a medicalized viewpoint? You would think that of all people, God should know that deafness does not need to be cured or "fixed"

Guess God is an audist!

 

[Buffalo]

BTW
.... The CI is NOT inside the skull,
.... My child is not "inhumanize",
.... My daughter is not Deaf, (go and find a definition of Deaf vs deaf)
.... Your grammar sucks (why is that?)

Here is the link that said that the CI is inside the skull.
Cochlear Implants
"The actual cochlear implant consists of an implant package, which is secured inside the skull, and a sound and speech processor, which is worn externally (outside the body). Several components of the cochlear implant work together to receive sound, transfer it to the hearing nerve, and send it to the brain."

I don't know why you are denying that the interior part of CI is inside the skull.

 

[neecy]

Here is the link that said that the CI is inside the skull.
Cochlear Implants
"The actual cochlear implant consists of an implant package, which is secured inside the skull, and a sound and speech processor, which is worn externally (outside the body). Several components of the cochlear implant work together to receive sound, transfer it to the hearing nerve, and send it to the brain."

I don't know why you are denying that the interior part of CI is inside the skull.

Most people think of "inside the skull" as being the equivalent of "inside the brain" and this is a misconception. The implant is anchored to the skull and sits in a shallow depression carved into the bone. The only thing that goes past the skull itself is the electrode array, which goes directly into the cochlea.

 

[Buffalo]

Most people think of "inside the skull" as being the equivalent of "inside the brain" and this is a misconception. The implant is anchored to the skull and sits in a shallow depression carved into the bone. The only thing that goes past the skull itself is the electrode array, which goes directly into the cochlea.

Cloggy uses the word 'skull' not 'brain'.

 

[R2D2]

Here is the link that said that the CI is inside the skull.
Cochlear Implants
"The actual cochlear implant consists of an implant package, which is secured inside the skull, and a sound and speech processor, which is worn externally (outside the body). Several components of the cochlear implant work together to receive sound, transfer it to the hearing nerve, and send it to the brain."

I don't know why you are denying that the interior part of CI is inside the skull.

It doesn't sit inside the skull in the way that you are thinking of it. It sits in a specially created well on the outside side of the skull. the well is made by removing a thin layer off the skull and placing it there. Then the muscle tissue is packed over it to keep it in place. However, there is still thick skull underneath the implant that separates it from the brain.

If you go to the FDA website Cochlear Implants
look at the little movie on the left hand side and play it. Then you will understand what I'm talking about.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

I used to be in the hearing world full time but now I am in the Deaf world a lot more and in the hearing world maybe 1/4 of the time. My hubby learned sign..he is not fully fluent in ASL. His receptive skills are poor so I use spoken language for him and he uses sign for me. So u can say we use both languages to communicate with each other and it works great! The most important thing is that my deafness is not an issue with him like it was with my ex hubby.

Then I guess your situation does not neccessarily require better hearing. No wonder you are not hurrying with it, if ever - I probably wouldn't either if I was mostly in the deaf enviroment. You have no need, so far.
I, on ther hand am 100% immersed in hearing enviroment so for me it's more neccessary to hear than for you. But I am in no hurry either.

His receptive skills are poor so I use spoken language for him and he uses sign for me.

You mean he simply "don't get it" when it comes to signing?
some people are like that, no fault of their own.


Fuzzy