Hearies view on a CI kid... its a bummer

[Cloggy]

Why does all deaf children must hear? Who ever says it is a "must"? the government or God or just you hearing parents? .........

Nobody is saying that...

Why are deaf children not allowed to hear? Who ever says it is a "must"? the government or God or just you deaf parents? ........

 

[Maria]

Why are deaf children not allowed to hear?

Why can't you just accept the deaf children who are not allowed to hear ? I mean, that's just the way it is. Why can't you accept ?

Where's your love by acceptin' natural deaf children ? You only focus on cochlear implants - why is that ? It obviously to me that you don't love your daughter enough by acceptin' your daughter as deaf.

 

[Angel]

Nobody is saying that...

Why are deaf children not allowed to hear? Who ever says it is a "must"? the government or God or just you deaf parents? ........

Please don't point this at me too, cause I already stated more than once that I believe in both "parents" and "individual" choice regarding to CI and hearing aids so therefore I'm nuetral on both sides...

but I don't think babies should be implanted that early cause they're so tiny and I feel it is too soon...

 

[Cloggy]

........... It obviously to me that you don't love your daughter enough by acceptin' your daughter as deaf.

You should be ashamed of a statement like that.

The love of any of my children has nothing do do with their ability to hear. It is unconditional... and if you are a parent, you should have known this.
As I have mentioned before, but you possibly refuse to read; I know my daughter is deaf.

 

[Cloggy]

Please don't point this at me too, cause I already stated more than once that I believe in both "parents" and "individual" choice regarding to CI and hearing aids so therefore I'm nuetral on both sides...

but I don't think babies should be implanted that early cause they're so tiny and I feel it is too soon...

I'm not pointing at you. You shouldn't take it personally.
I never said deaf children are never allowed not to hear.

I reversed Cheri's statement. The statement can apply for hearing and deaf. and it is nonsense...
There's too much black and white.... we should look at the colors in between these extremes..

And regarding your last sentence... I know how you feel...
Can you imagine how difficult it is for the parents of a child to make that decision. When the decision has been made, "they're so tiny and I feel it is too soon" is not a good reason to wait with the procedure..

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Fuzzy,

I began to see hypothetical about your posts... wow...

I stopped you for accused Cheri misleading, liar etc to defend hearing parents and tried to convince you that it´s truth because I have similar experience like that in the past. You denied it but defend hearing parents... until one hearing parent shared her experience about her Deaf parent in the past on the same CI thread where we shared our experience about hearing parents. You didn´t say anything to her like what you did to Cheri but SUPPORT her in nicely way and ranted about her Deaf parents... *scratch my head*

Liebling, except for this...:

You denied it but defend hearing parents...

I MOCKED Cheri. do you know what "mocked" means?
......I have no idea what are you talking about
but, is it really worth bring up again?

We have the right to say something opposite your view when we see different as your view.

But - do I have that right? Can I say something opposite if I view different?

it's hearing aids section forum too not only cochlear implant.

did Rick said it isn't hearing section?

You think you know so much about me, but you don't. I did had the experience in both worlds.

I was reffering to your own words about being slapped for signing, and being forced to be oral in your childhood, nothing besides that.
I know you have experience in both worlds.

If you opened your eyes, you would see that there is a great deal preventing it. But as Lotte is not your child, your assessments are inconsequential.

What exactly do you know about Lotte and her development to make such judgement?
Remember what I told you about assesments made without seeying a patient in real life? - is not a professional thing to do? nor a reliable assesment.
You do not know all the facts about Lotte.
I personally don't see any problems with her development- quite on the contrary, if you care to read blog about her there is plenty to learn about.
Don't forget she is still a little child and she still have plenty of time for sign language and all the deaf advances.

I know several implantees who wer not implanted early, as you so insist, that participate fully.....many of them attending hearing universities and successfully competing with and interacting with hearing students.

And that proves what? but anyway, please note I said MAJORITY. The problem is you can not predict who will fall into "majority".

That is not a question that can be answered froma logical standpoint alone,a s it is fraught with ethical and moral considerations and personal philiosphies.

I never said it's easy question.

The issue of concern is the denial of sign and deaf community to deaf children even though they may have a CI.

And exactly who's denying exactly what?

Is Cloggy denying his daughter sign language? is Rick denying anything? Cloggy stated clearly numerous times he still signs to Lotte. It's Lotte who refuses to sign right now.
And I for one am not suprised. Lotte used sign language FIRST. She had a little taste of the deaf world already.
The CI is still a novelty to her. At this stage of life, she is simply delighted discovering the world of sound, but the time will come when she will return to also signing as well. Just a matter of time.
I for one don't know if she has any deaf friends or not - I simply missed that, but I am sure Cloggy would mention that.
Cloggy never said he will prevent her from seeking deaf world and signing.

And even if SHE doesn't get interested in the SL and the deaf world - well everyone here is pretty adamant about free will and personal choice.
Since it will NOT be Cloggy who choses but Lotte, what's the problem?

Optimal is a subject measurement. How is it that my son is not functioning optimally?

Oh he is, but with what he has. could he also have had CI early, that would changed his "optimums".

Exactly. Your focus is on speech and hearing only, not the entirety of developmental concerns. When you limit your focus to simply that of speech and hearing, you neglect all of the other developmental areas.

Oh, but I am NOT limiting - I am also advocating ASL and whatever is needed to function as a deaf individual. One however do limit a deaf person if provides only the deaf enviroment. As well as the one who provides oral only.

And, as he ahs already developed language and speech, it was not necessary, obviously, that he have a CI in order to accomplish that.

PLUS he could have HEAR with CI, and have even more independence with it.

No, you are automatically assuming that it would be successful.

I am not assuming anything - I simply relay what is told and written on the subject by professionals.

There is just as great a chance that he would not have developed oral language skills any greater than he already has

I am not sure about "as great", true he would may not have developed the skills,
but he also COULD HAVE.

YOU were talking about deaf people as if speech and hearing are the only concern. The rest of us were talking about deaf people as whole individuals.

Actually no, I just have a tendency to stick to the narrow part of a subject.
But since you mentioned other part, I'd like to point out that speech and hearing is valuable, and beneficial to also a deaf person - without damaging its deaf personality.
Since when a deaf person who is able to also hear and speak NOT whole?

That would be "think in the abstract", or "think abstractly.
Thank you. I knew something was wrong.

And your constant focus onthe concrete issues of speech and hearing without being able to integrate the other facets that make up the person is evidence of concrete thinking tothe extreme.

I was talking about the meaning of the sentence per se only, so you might have not fully understood me, sorry.
truthfully I already forgot what the whole sentence was, oy..

My son can sign and float between 2 cultures. Many, many hearing people can't do that.

yes but many CAN do. So here you have it - a hearing person can do it.

And, a hearing person cannot do, if you are referring to accomplish, anything that my son can't.

Exactly. The only way either - a "handicapped" ot not "handicapped" could DO or accomplish something the other could not, is for example growing a missing limb, or being able to fly without any assistance. . whatever is out there to accomplish or do, is doable for both.

Kids weren't slapped ont he hands for their unclear speech....they were slapped on the hands for signing. Duh.

Geez. I know my English is not always at its best, but surely a person with average intelligence would figured out what I mean. of course slapped for signing.
Curiously, I never see you correcting a really bad written English of other people here...

All that idicates is that I have more to say than you do.

More doesn't neccessary mean better.

I work 2 jobs and attend school working on my advanced degree. What productive things do you do with your time?

Surely you don't think I have to explain myself to you, do you?
Reagrdless, I admire your hard work and accomplishments.

If I stopped hearing with my HAs, I honestly cant say that I WONT get a CI. If that day comes, I will let u know.

Would you mind telling me Shel if you are mostly in the deaf world or the hearing world? I think you mentioned having hearing husband. How do you communicate with your hubby if you don't mind me asking?

Fuzzy

 

[Angel]

I'm not pointing at you. You shouldn't take it personally.
I never said deaf children are never allowed not to hear.

I reversed Cheri's statement. The statement can apply for hearing and deaf. and it is nonsense...
There's too much black and white.... we should look at the colors in between these extremes..

Honestly, I wasn't taken your post personal, I had to clear up that one line where you said "or just you deaf parents?" and I happen to be a deaf parent 2...


My sister is only stated her opinion, you have the right to disagree with her but there no reason to say it's nonsense....Afterall, aren't we adults here?

 

[Maria]

The love of any of my children has nothing do do with their ability to hear. It is unconditional... and if you are a parent, you should have known this.

You should be ashamed of a statement like that.

Ahh... so, you just picked that one line out to answer ?
How about acceptin' your daughter as deaf ?

Well, for your information - I know about " unconditional love ". I am mother of 4 children. All my 4 children are hearin' and I don't attempt to change their hearin'. I accepted them when they were born hearin' naturally. Why should I be ashamed of my statement about you over your daughter ? I will tell you what ? It's the way I see it, because you DON'T ACCEPT your daughter's deafness by changin' her deafness.

Supposely, if someone gives you a gift ( anythin' ), will you change it to somethin' that you want, just because of " someone " who gave you this gift is somethin' you don't like ? hmm ...

You don't have many " Lottes " clones to chose from. For example : All Lottes clones look the same and everythin', except somethin' is missin' with one sense to another - maybe, 5 or 6 of them and you prefer to chose hearin' one with perfect senses and all in one piece WITHOUT acceptin' ONE Lotte that was given to you when she was born deaf.

I was just thinkin' here : Let's just say, God gave you a deaf child - will you tell Him that you don't want a " deaf " child, but a " hearin' " child ? You will probably insult Him. Same thing outta here, you insult deaf people, too especially your daughter. God expect YOU to learn ASL when He gave you a deaf child.......

 

[Audiofuzzy]

All my 4 children are hearin' and I don't attempt to change their hearin'. I accepted them when they were born hearin' naturally

I wonder HOW possibly can you change your children hearing??

Fuzzy

 

[Cloggy]

Ahh... so, you just picked that one line out to answer ?
How about acceptin' your daughter as deaf ?

Well, for your information - I know about " unconditional love ". I am mother of 4 children. All my 4 children are hearin' and I don't attempt to change their hearin'. I accepted them when they were born hearin' naturally. Why should I be ashamed of my statement about you over your daughter ? I will tell you what ? It's the way I see it, because you DON'T ACCEPT your daughter's deafness by changin' her deafness.

Supposely, if someone gives you a gift ( anythin' ), will you change it to somethin' that you want, just because of " someone " who gave you this gift is somethin' you don't like ? hmm ...
................

I was just thinkin' here : Let's just say, God gave you a deaf child - will you tell Him that you don't want a " deaf " child, but a " hearin' " child ? You will probably insult Him. Same thing outta here, you insult deaf people, too especially your daughter. God expect YOU to learn ASL when He gave you a deaf child.......

What's to accept?.

And as a mother of 4 children, you should REALLY be ashamed to say to a parent that he doesn't love his child!!!

And about God... basing your decisions on a 2000+ year old asian myth is not really productive, or constructive.

But let's go that way... Let's assume the god exsists and that she is concerned and loving...
She not only "gave" Lotte deafness, he she also "gave" the world cochlear implants.
Now, don't you think she would be really pissed off if we wouldn't use that gift...

 

[Roadrunner]

..Now, don't you think she would be really pissed off if we wouldn't use that gift...

Perhaps that may be true...however, there's a 'choice'...to choose to accept such a gift.






~RR

 

[Audiofuzzy]

here we go again...

Perhaps that may be true...however, there's a 'choice'...to choose to accept such a gift.

well, the early implantation shows ..... and so on.

Fuzzy

 

[Angel]

Perhaps that may be true...however, there's a 'choice'...to choose to accept such a gift. ~RR

Good point there....

 

[Angel]

well, the early implantation shows ..... and so on.

Fuzzy

We KNOW Fuzzy, We KNOW, how many more times are you gonna to repeat that?...

 

[Roadrunner]

here we go again...



well, the early implantation shows ..... and so on.

Fuzzy

Pardon me? "..here we go again..."??

I'm more or less implying a 'fact' that there is a 'choice'...(when it comes to a gift) I don't recall saying anything about implantation, nor early implantation. Please don't 'add' more to it....




~RR

 

[Maria]

What's to accept?.

Deaf.

And as a mother of 4 children, you should REALLY be ashamed to say to a parent that he doesn't love his child!!!

I never said that he doesn't love his child. I am speakin' of " acceptance ". Accept your " deaf " daughter as gift. Learn ASL to show your acceptance of her the way she is.

And about God... basing your decisions on a 2000+ year old asian myth is not really productive, or constructive.

But let's go that way... Let's assume the god exsists and that she is concerned and loving...
She not only "gave" Lotte deafness, he she also "gave" the world cochlear implants.

" Gave " the world cochlear implants ? Well, I am kinda stuck because, I am NOT supposed to say somethin' here unless Alex permits it. I know my issue is goin' to be very " hot " to debate.

Now, don't you think she would be really pissed off if we wouldn't use that gift...

That's right.

 

[Maria]

I wonder HOW possibly can you change your children hearing??

Fuzzy

I am not usin' " stupidity " to do anythin' to change my children's hearin'.

 

[Angel]

And regarding your last sentence... I know how you feel...
Can you imagine how difficult it is for the parents of a child to make that decision. When the decision has been made, "they're so tiny and I feel it is too soon" is not a good reason to wait with the procedure..

I'm sorry I must have missed that one...Yeah I know it's not easy at all, I'm just glad I'm not in their shoes to make that decision...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Liebling, except for this...:

I MOCKED Cheri. do you know what "mocked" means?
......I have no idea what are you talking about
but, is it really worth bring up again?

Excuse me please, I know what mock is about. I do not see that you MOCKED Cheri but ACCUSED Cheri for insult hearing parents and then call her liar there... and then advise her here to let the past go. I only want to remind you about your posts at other CI thread to convince you about our past experience with our hearing parents for not expose both world. Don´t pretend that you has no clue what I talking about. You denied our posts to defend hearing parents because your parents are hearing until one hearing poster shared her bad experience with her Deaf parents for not expose her to both world. You SUPPORT her and over her Deaf parents. You didn´t say anything about our bad experience over hearing parents like what you did to a hearing poster at other CI thread.

I won´t let you to belittle me and twist my post... Pretend that you has no clue what I am talking about.

But - do I have that right? Can I say something opposite if I view different?

You kept on repeat, repeat, repeat and can´t accept that we see different as you and defend hearing parents.

 

[Cloggy]

Perhaps that may be true...however, there's a 'choice'...to choose to accept such a gift.

~RR

My point exactly. It's a choice.
Both choices should be respected. And when you made the choice, you live with it.

(And if "deafness" is a gift, then one should be able to make a choice there as well... is it really a gift, or is it something you learn to accept, and live with...)