Hearies view on a CI kid... its a bummer

[Lavender]

Not be able to hear with a HA? Last night, I was dancing to old 80s music that was playing on the TV. If I take them off then I "cant" hear the music. Big difference

"Cant hear" or "cant hear as well" mean two different things...

Can u hear rain or one drop of water dripping?

 

[Tousi]

Can u hear rain or one drop of water dripping?

Shel has never, never claimed she can hear THAT well. So why, for what purpose would you ask a question like that? To me, there's only one purpose for asking such a question and that is to ignite another petty war of words that will not advance a positive discussion. You're not the only one so let this be a reminder to all of us to be civil.

 

[jillio]

.

I never said your son, or anyone for that matter, needs early implantation to be well adjusted, capable and happy.

No, you implied that it is needed to be complete.




yes, but since he missed the window of opportunity he will never have as good a benefits from CI as he would if implanted early. And because of that he can not chose if he wants to be "hearing" or "deaf". You chose it.

What window would that be? Are you referring to the window of opportunity for language acquisition? If so, then you are correct....that window has passed. But, you are incorrect in assuming that it has past with delays in his case. He was able to acquire language during this window of opportunity through the use of sign. From that he was able to acquire English a a second language. Therefore, he suffers no language delays. And that is the primary focus. Langauge acquisition, not mode. Because he has acquired a strong L1 llangauge, and because he was subsequently able to acquire a string L2 language as a result of his L1 language, CI is not neccessary to benefit him linguistically. At this point in time, the only benefit that he would get from CI would be increased sound perception. He does not need it for language acquisition....that has already been accomplished. Which makes your window of opportunity argument moot.

Nor could he hever choose to be hearing or deaf. That is not a choice that was ever available to him. He was born deaf. The only choice that has ever been available is how he is most comfortable in living with his deafness. No deaf person has the choice to become hearing, fuzzy.
NO HE WASN'T. OH, NO HE WASN'T. He deals with what YOU have choosed for him. And because of the missed "window of opportunity", he now has no choice at all.

Once again, your argument is fallicious. Simply because he is an adult and and theoretically passed that window of opportunity of which you speak does not mean that he would not receive benefit from a CI regarding sound perception. Which in fact, is what the CI is designed to provide, increased sound perception. Hehas already developed language bilingually. So the fact that the "window of opportunity" that you are so fond of speaking of has passed is inconsequential. He developed language within that opportunity without a CI.


Or, maybe it's YOU.

No, dear, your statements contiue to demonstrate that it definately you.



NOPE. That is not what it says, Einstein. Not my fault you can not comprehend this:

That is exactly what I qouted fuzzy. Too bad you don't have enough of a command of language to comprehend the words you write.


someday you will. maybe. I'll give you a clue - the above quote works vice versa, too!

Fuzzy

And how might that be, fuzzy? Explain it to me.

 

[jillio]

he could have all that PLUS he can hear.

Oh, so now you know for certain that the CI would have been successful in his case? That's great. What medical school did you go to? And to be able to amke a prediction like that.....amazing! Why is it that the implant teams don't have you on retainer to make those predictions for all of their candidates? An ability like that would be invaluable in deciding who should get implants and who shouldn't. You way overestimate yourself, fuzzy.

besides, you say you are all for "choice"?
Where is the choice when the window of oportunity is missed? nowhere. or, more precise- not as good.

Again, his "window of opportunity" was nor missed. He acquired L1 language well within his window of opportunity. It is obvious that you are continuing to throw around a phrase you have read somewhere without true comprehension of the connation.

Jillio, as many other parents, chose the deaf way for her son. That doesn't mean she doesn't love him - I never said that. Of course she loves him.

You Cheri would understand things better if you let your past go. You are still looking thru your painful early childhood experience. Your experince was NOT good, I know and admit that, but it also prevents you from being truly objective.

Wow! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! That is too funny!
Imagine in additon to your oral skills you were also given an opportunity to sign and all.
In essence, you would be what you are now, but without the heartache.

And what is it going to take to relieve your heartache, fuzzy? Becoming hearing?

Cheri does sign, and Cheri does have oral skills. And my son was given the opportunity to develop sign and oral skills, yet you keep talking about how he has been restricted without CI due some window of opportunity of which you have no comprehension.

You know fuzzy, you seem to have a great deal of time to comment on and pass judgement on the experience of others. How about sharing a little of your own experience? Tell us your own story. Because, int he end, that is all you are qualified to do. Or is it that you must concetrate so hard on picking apart the experience of others because you hold so much resentment toward your own past experience? Are you commenting on others experience becuase you cannot bear to look at your own. Its a common facet of distraction and denial. Look at yourself, fuzzy. It would be far more productive for all.

 

[jillio]

Jillio:
Obviously, he did not need the early impantation to happy, well adjusted & capalbe.
Obviously, he didn't.

Obviously, you have no idea about CI. Being happy, adjusted and capable is not the reason for implantation. It has to do with being able to hear, and from there to understand speach. It has to do with communication.

I suppose that is the difference in our philiosophies, Cloggy. I see raising a child that is happy, well adjusted, and capable as the first priority. You see raising a child who can hear as the first priority. My son has no problems with communication. He is able to communicate fluently in sign, and he is also able to communicate with speech. He reads English at a college level. Obviously, there are no problems with communication.
That is the whole point, cloggy. To you, communication means the way that you communicate, through hearing and speech. To me communication means meaningful and productive interaction with others no matter what the mode.Jillio:
And, he still is allowed the freedom to choose implantaion at any time he desires. And had he expressed a desire to be implanted at an age where he was capable of understanding the implications, I would have conceeded to his request.

Obviously, his freedom to choose Ci when he wants is a reduced option because his abilities with CI will never be as good as it could have been..

Abilities to do what, cloggy? Speak? He already has speech skills. His ability to perceive sound? I don't think so. If your reasoning were to hold up, then there would never be a reason to implant past the age of 6. Numerous adults have chosen to be implanted as adults, and are perfectly happy with thier choice.

Jillio:
My son was given the freedom to explore his identity without being pushed or pulled in any particular direction based on my needs for him rather than his needs for himself. You seem to have a great deal of difficulty in grasping that concept.

Obviously, he did not have the freedom to choose. He was too small. You forced him to go through life deaf, without hearing, and that was the basis for his identity. HAd you forced him to be deaf and hear, then that would be his identity. Identity is not something you are born with, it is something society around the child is forcing upon the child.

I did not force my son to go through life deaf. He was born deaf. That choice was already made as a consequence of his birth. He will go through his life deaf, just as your own daughter will go through life deaf. The only difference is one has a CI and one doesn't. No matter what either one of us as parents do, both children will always be deaf. Face reality, cloggy.

One is not born with a "christian" identity, or "islam" identity.

One can change religious affiliation at will. Once cannot change the fact that one is deaf. Fallicious argument. Stick to that which is applicable.

 

[jillio]

Not be able to hear with a HA? Last night, I was dancing to old 80s music that was playing on the TV. If I take them off then I "cant" hear the music. Big difference

"Cant hear" or "cant hear as well" mean two different things...

Exactly, shel. And something cloggy seems incapable of understanding, ot simply afraid to face, is that his daughter will still be deaf for all of her life, no matter how well she hears with a CI on.

 

[jillio]

Can u hear rain or one drop of water dripping?

If you've ever had a leaky faucet in your house, you would understand that this is not neccessarily a benefit! Does absolutlely nothing to improve quality of life, or assist in language acquisition. And simply becasue a given individual is capable of hearing a drop of water does not necesarily mean that they are able to perceive sound int he frequencies that do add to the quality of life and language acquisition.

 

[jillio]

Oh blimey!!! CLOGGY !!! Geezh !!! How about you too forced your daughter to be hear with C.I. eh when she have no choice as while she was very young.
CLOGGY.. doesn't we all*DEAF PEOPLE ALLOW TO LIVING IN THIS SAME UNIVERSE AS YOU ? ONLY YOUR DAUGHTER TO BE ALLOW LIVING IN THIS SAME UNVERISE AS YOU*

:roll: You are so unbelievable because you're so closed minded person i ever have to know here also this other person who is Fuzzy too .

Yep, they are two of a kind. Can't see farther than their own ears!

 

[Cloggy]

Originally Posted by Cloggy
Pretty sad, that you still haven't figuered out that when a person is not able to hear with a HA, a cochlea implant will make it possible to hear again. And often - as many here have explained - better than with the HA.

Not be able to hear with a HA? Last night, I was dancing to old 80s music that was playing on the TV. If I take them off then I "cant" hear the music. Big difference

"Cant hear" or "cant hear as well" mean two different things...

Again, sad you cannot read...
The key word is "when"... To make sure you could find it, I underlined it and made it bold...

 

[Cloggy]

Oh blimey!!! CLOGGY !!! Geezh !!! How about you too forced your daughter to be hear with C.I. eh when she have no choice as while she was very young.
CLOGGY.. doesn't we all*DEAF PEOPLE ALLOW TO LIVING IN THIS SAME UNIVERSE AS YOU ? ONLY YOUR DAUGHTER TO BE ALLOW LIVING IN THIS SAME UNVERISE AS YOU*

:roll: You are so unbelievable because you're so closed minded person i ever have to know here also this other person who is Fuzzy too .

Of course she had no choice. Parents make the choice.
Jillio chose for her son the be Deaf. He had no choice in the matter.
We chose for our daughter to be able to hear.

And, what's with all the capitals... are you screaming???
I can hear you in small font as well....

 

[Cloggy]

Cloggy,


Obviously, Either did your daughter did not have the freedom to choose. You forced cochlear implant on her and forced her to go through life being hearing because of that you're hearing. You even choose to let her participle in the hearing world, reply on speech, no needed to continue signs, no needed to participle her in the deaf world. What makes you a better parent than Jillio?

Who said I'm a better parent?

I am just saying that Jillio, like me made the decision for our child, and with that decision we force our child in a certain direction. Jillio's son into the Deaf world, my daughter in the "hearing" world.

Again, where did I imply I am a better parent???

 

[shel90]

Can u hear rain or one drop of water dripping?

If I stand close to it, yes and it annoys the hell out of me. LOL!

I can hear rain that's for sure!!! Especially a downpour!

Why?

 

[shel90]

Shel has never, never claimed she can hear THAT well. So why, for what purpose would you ask a question like that? To me, there's only one purpose for asking such a question and that is to ignite another petty war of words that will not advance a positive discussion. You're not the only one so let this be a reminder to all of us to be civil.

Thank u. What I am able to hear suits me. It may not suit others but for now, it is fine. If I was going to get a CI, it would only to hear music better but I dont want to get surgery for that. That would be my ONLY reason to really consider a CI. I know it is weird of me. LOL!

 

[shel90]

Again, sad you cannot read...
The key word is "when"... To make sure you could find it, I underlined it and made it bold...

Yea, it is sad that I am illiterate.

 

[shel90]

If you've ever had a leaky faucet in your house, you would understand that this is not neccessarily a benefit! Does absolutlely nothing to improve quality of life, or assist in language acquisition. And simply becasue a given individual is capable of hearing a drop of water does not necesarily mean that they are able to perceive sound int he frequencies that do add to the quality of life and language acquisition.

Right...I have never been able to hear like a person who has normal hearing so how can I miss it if I have never had that I used to want it sooo badly that it made me miserable as hell. It used to be my obsession like someone who is obsessed with being thin and end up developing an eating disorder. Now, it is not worth the misery and just focus on the things I am very lucky to have in my life. Isnt that what life is about? Either focus on our blessings and live a happy/content life or focus on what we dont have and live a bitter and unhappy life.

 

[jillio]

Of course she had no choice. Parents make the choice.
Jillio chose for her son the be Deaf. He had no choice in the matter.
We chose for our daughter to be able to hear.

And, what's with all the capitals... are you screaming???
I can hear you in small font as well....

No, cloggy, I did not choose for my son to be deaf. Nature took care of that choice for me. My only choose was in the environment that I provided to allow him to develop the skills necessary to live a productive and happy life with his deafness.

And you have not chosen for your daughter to be able to hear. You simply made the choice to give her a CI. You did not determine the physiological facts that made that implant successful nor did you determine the facts that could make it unsuccessful. All you provided was surgery and devise. And while we're at it, your daughter had no choice, nor did you in the fact that she is, and always will be, deaf. Exactly what choice did your daughter have in her implant?

 

[jillio]

Who said I'm a better parent?

I am just saying that Jillio, like me made the decision for our child, and with that decision we force our child in a certain direction. Jillio's son into the Deaf world, my daughter in the "hearing" world.

Again, where did I imply I am a better parent???

That's what you seem to be missing cloggy. I did not force my son in a particular direction, but provided an atmosphere that allowed him to choose that which was most beneficial and comfortable for him. Perhaps you are too focused on control.

 

[jillio]

Right...I have never been able to hear like a person who has normal hearing so how can I miss it if I have never had that I used to want it sooo badly that it made me miserable as hell. It used to be my obsession like someone who is obsessed with being thin and end up developing an eating disorder. Now, it is not worth the misery and just focus on the things I am very lucky to have in my life. Isnt that what life is about? Either focus on our blessings and live a happy/content life or focus on what we dont have and live a bitter and unhappy life.

Absolutely,shel. Obsessions with what is not only prevent us from living fully with what is. It is possible to entirley miss one's own life by living in an obsessional, delusional state. Sad situation. To miss the beauty and the gifts that our life provides by contantly focusing on what we do not have.

 

[dreama]

*cough* Anti-CI gang? LOL. The only anti-CI'ers here are me and sweetmind.

I consider myself anti CI although I'm ok about adult deaf and children old enough to make their own decisions having a CI but I still don't like the device for several reasons.

 

[dreama]

It is not really about trying to "change" Deaf people into hearing people,
Or even "Mak'ing Deaf people Normal" Though that is what the "Money
Trail" people would have the worlds "DO-Gooders" think. It is only about
funding research and making money and more research and more money
and more govt agencies to oversea the making of more money. But you
would be led to believe that the DG's only have Deaf peoples best intrests
at heart. And in the meantime the "Social Scientists" are throwing you the
"Argument Bones" and they are watching and charting and writing scientific
papers on the "Dynamics of Social Change" in minority groups so they can
get more money to fund their research add infinitum! The communications
on these topics that you have are being monitored and used in someones
research paper and nobody really cares what the outcome is.

That's one of the reasons I'm anti CI. Plus a lot of this research into CI still relys on outdated Animal research which is extremely cruel.