Hearies view on a CI kid... its a bummer

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highlands said:
you weren't born deaf .. you became hard of hearing (or deaf ) at 5 ( if I don't know wrong ) and then you slowly went deaf.. that's a different story.
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The truth is we do not know for sure, my mother thinks we were born deaf, my father really doesn't know, my grandmother thinks we lost our hearing at the age of 5 from illness, there are many stories being said in the family because the doctors weren't sure what cause our deafness or why we became deaf, because for one they didn't have hearing tests way back at the time when we were born and we wored hearing aids at the age of 5 or 6, and we were identify as being hoh and slowly becoming deaf through out the years, part of me believe it's because I wasn't wearing my hearing aids everyday...but the point here is I didn't have to hear in order to learn to speak, anyone can speak and in order to learn to speak, you have to put a certain amount of effort into speaking and what is more, the people whom you converse will be able to help you to find ways to say what you are trying to say... It seems reasonable to think that this would contribute to your language learning...
 
Cheri said:
Maybe she cares about what we think more than you would care about how we think. See the differences? :whistle:


I'm more like jillio, If I have a blind child, I would talk and ask someone who had experiecing in raising a blind child, I would take every suggestion seriously. Would you? I haven't seen you taking our suggestion any serious when we tried advise you that sign was very important to be added in the child's life and keep using it. What did you do? You decide well, my daugher reply on speech. Doesn't seem any important to you on what we have to offer to you doesn't it?
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Exactly, Cheri. And while we're at it, would you plug the ears of a blind child and tell them they couldn't use sound to compensate for their lack of sight. Would you refuse to provide them with braille, and tell them they had to learn to read from the printed words, even though they could't see them well enough to make any sense of them. I don't think anyone would propose doing that to a blind child. But that is exactly what we do to deaf children when we refuse to allow them to use visual cues for understanding and deny them the use of the language of signs.
 
highlands said:
I have to disagree on that.. I have biletaral severe/profound loss and I wear hearing aids but I cannot get crispy sounds.. I am heavily dependant on lip reading..hearing aids amplify sound to my hearing levels but this is not enough cuz I have highly damaged cochlea ,so my brain get distorted sounds when it comes to speech even if it is loud enough .

A child with a loss smilar to mine ( that means profound loss) wouldn't be able to get enough speech information via has..I'm sure of this due to my experience. CI would do a much better job for the child if parents wish the child to 'hear' some.. ( assuming that there is no any other medical factor for not implanting)
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Yeah, that was my point highlands. Is the motivation to provide sound perception, or to develop speech. But some profoundly deaf children are able to get some speech discrimination from HAs. It depends on many more things than simply the dB. level of the loss.

My question was actually a challenge to the hearingparents who are saying they provided CI to allow their child to be able to HEAR. In reality, they provide CI in order that their child will develop spoken language. Those are two very different perspectives.
You can hear with your HA, just not well enough to perceive speech without the aid of lipreading.
 
Maybe you know this?

jillio said:
Sorry Tousie. I didn't mean to give you an abrupt answer, but I had a student come in that I needed to speak with.

This may sound a bit off topic, but I think if you will bear with me, you will see how it realtes.

Have you ever heard the term "tone deaf" when referring to someone's ability to reproduce an exact muscial note? Well, that term is a misnomer. If I play a middle C on the piano to two different people, they will both hear exactly the same thing. However, when asked to reproduce that tone vocally, one will be able to reproduce it exactly, and one will reproduce it perhaps a 1/2 step or a step off. That is because even though they have heard the same note to the same degree of clarity, one processes it neurologically the same, and one processes it neurologically with a slight variance. Likewise, if Iplay the same not on a piano, and ask the same indiviudals to reproduce it on the keyboard without seeing the exact note I have played, one will be able to play the middle C and one will raise or lower it a 1/2 step or a full step.

Have I made it even more confusing, or does that help?
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I had my 3rd childs hearing tested at the request of a teacher when
she was in 8th grade. She had some hearing loss in both ears in the very
low pitch areas. Every one said she did not need hearing aids thought.
Also she is so tone deaf that the teacher had spend
extra time after school helping her to stay on key and she had to place
a person that sang in her range on either side to help her stay on key.
Another problem is she has very intense physical discomfort when ever
there are base noises playing anywhere. She can not stand theaters or
concerts for this reason and hates it when cars drive up playing music
so loud that she can feel the base vibration. We all can feel and hear
it, but she finds in very uncomfortable. Does anyone know a name for
this?
 
Cloggy said:
The implanted child can hear with a cochlear implant, cannot with hearing aids. Hear the differences?
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Cannot hear with HAs? So it is all in my head that I am hearing things? Oh my gosh!!!! I am hearing voices, cars, airplanes, music, and more...I have been lied to!!! So my HAs were a fraud? Wow! They did a good job fooling me.
 
jillio said:
Not neccesarrily, and that is a mistake that is made when making the decision to implant. If one takes it only at face value, there would appear to be a poxitive correlation.....however, it does not hold up to closer scrutiny. There are those with HAs who have very poor perception in the speech range that have developed adequate speech skills, and there are those with CI who have increased perception in the speech ranges that are unable still to develop adequate speech skills. One does not always lead to the other.
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I am a perfect example of a HA user with a very poor perception in the speech range who has developed pretty adequate speech skills. Both dB losses are at 120. With HAs, it is probably around 95 dB..not enough to get the speech banana but yet, I was able to develop oral skills. I know, it is so weird but the important thing that really was missing out on so much info growing up.
 
highlands said:
you weren't born deaf .. you became hard of hearing (or deaf ) at 5 ( if I don't know wrong ) and then you slowly went deaf.. that's a different story.
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I, on the other hand, have been severely profoundly deaf since birth and I can speak very well with almost anyone. The problem occurs is when others start speaking to me too fast thinking I can hear better than I do cuz the misconception of better speech skills equalizing to better hearing.
 
highlands said:
Gain is not enough for very high losses.. the child may hear sounds in that case but speech would be distorted in most case.. that's why CIs are designed .

A hearing aid may amplify sounds to required level but due to high damage to cochlea , speech becomes distorted..I've been experiencing this for such many years.. loud enough but distorted sounds via ha.
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Many of the CI students that I have worked with have not been able to understand speech. It has been tried several times by the hearing teachers and speech therapists and they do show that they "hear" people talking but were unable to respond accordling unless sign was added. Their language level is not sophisticated yet to be able to explain what speech sounds like to them due to being delayed in language.
 
Cannot hear with HAs? So it is all in my head that I am hearing things? Oh my gosh!!!! I am hearing voices, cars, airplanes, music, and more...I have been lied to!!! So my HAs were a fraud? Wow! They did a good job fooling me.
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Shel, but it's YOUR experience.


Also, there are two things I would consider before becoming upset.
One. Maybe Cloggy meant that implanted child can not hear with HAs because the residual hearing is gone.
Two. Maybe Cloggy mean a child can't hear with HAs because of the type and greatness of its hearing loss, but can with CI.


I don't know how much and what kind of your hearing loss it, but I am sure if you can't hear without your HAs (like I do) you are pretty deaf.
So you can't then hear without HAs, or CI anything, right?

If you can hear with your HA's, but not without them, then I would guess you definitly can not hear many vowels and consonants anymore EVEN with your HAs - this is your brain that compensates for missed sounds, not your ear.
Your brain is feeling blanks for you. For example if you can not hear 'S' anymore, and somebody says to you "it's a bus" in reality all you hear "it' a bu". But your brain compensates for the missing sound, so you think you hear "it's a bus".

With long enough training (even natural training, just by living it) you master the art of oral communication to the point you don't even realize anymore what you can really hear and what not.

Moreover, you can't be sure that the sound of a passing plane or a train or anything that you hear is exactly what the hearing person hears. You accept it for true what you hear, how you hear it, but this not neccessarily what is reality, what it really sounds like.

The CI is able to produce sounds that HAs are not,
And that is what makes the whole difference, and maybe that is what Cloggy means when he says "the implanted child can hear with CI, can't hear with HAs".

I am sure there are some so profoundly deaf children that can not hear with HAs, but can with CI.

Fuzzy
 
Angel said:
The truth is we do not know for sure, my mother thinks we were born deaf, my father really doesn't know, my grandmother thinks we lost our hearing at the age of 5 from illness, there are many stories being said in the family because the doctors weren't sure what cause our deafness or why we became deaf, because for one they didn't have hearing tests way back at the time when we were born and we wored hearing aids at the age of 5 or 6, and we were identify as being hoh and slowly becoming deaf through out the years, part of me believe it's because I wasn't wearing my hearing aids everyday...but the point here is I didn't have to hear in order to learn to speak, anyone can speak and in order to learn to speak, you have to put a certain amount of effort into speaking and what is more, the people whom you converse will be able to help you to find ways to say what you are trying to say... It seems reasonable to think that this would contribute to your language learning...
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I would have to disagree about "anyone" cuz my brother was born with the same bilateral hearing loss like mine, put in the same oral-only program that I went to for 5 years, came from the same home life, and was just as sharp as I was if not more, but yet after 5 years of hours and hours in that oral-only program with the same teachers I had, he was unable to develop any speech nor lipreading skills. Nobody knows why..it all depends on how we process information..he just processed it differently than I do and as a result, he was deprived of a language.
 
jillio said:
Exactly, Cheri. And while we're at it, would you plug the ears of a blind child and tell them they couldn't use sound to compensate for their lack of sight. Would you refuse to provide them with braille, and tell them they had to learn to read from the printed words, even though they could't see them well enough to make any sense of them. I don't think anyone would propose doing that to a blind child. But that is exactly what we do to deaf children when we refuse to allow them to use visual cues for understanding and deny them the use of the language of signs.
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Yep!!! Society does deaf children a huge injustice by forcing them to develop language using their weakest sense. Doesnt make sense at all. :roll:
 
Sorry, but cloggy does not understand personal choice in terms of the individual. He only understands personal choice in terms of forcinghis choice ont he individual. That is not choice, it is dominance.
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And what do you call exercising YOUR opinon over your deaf baby who was at a time unable to make choice for himself? Don't make me laugh....


Fuzzy
 
That's not even true, You don't have to hear thru hearing aids or cochear implant to be able to speak. Speech is presented to anyone, deaf, hoh, hearing, etc.
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yeah, and we all know how the deaf "speak".
A hearing person can tell if not right away then after a short time that something is not right with speech.
very few deaf people can pronunce perfectly. More often this is possible with HoH, and certainly late deafened.

Fuzzy
 
you weren't born deaf .. you became hard of hearing (or deaf ) at 5 ( if I don't know wrong ) and then you slowly went deaf.. that's a different story.
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ABSOLUTELY.

Let's get the fact straight, my parents recovered that we were deaf at the age of 5 nobody really knows if we were born deaf, or we lost our hearing throughout the years before the age of five. As I remember we could hear music better before than we do now.
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The same as me. The first signs that I can't hear well were about at that age.
I too used to hear better before- and no wonder, I have progressive hearing loss, and you too, probably.
You can't hear anymore a lot- it's the brain memory that helps you "talk" on the phone with Ha's or "hear" at all.

In reality with HAs a person like me or you hears very few consonants and vowels.

Fuzzy
 
Exactly, Cheri. And while we're at it, would you plug the ears of a blind child and tell them they couldn't use sound to compensate for their lack of sight. Would you refuse to provide them with braille, and tell them they had to learn to read from the printed words, even though they could't see them well enough to make any sense of them. I don't think anyone would propose doing that to a blind child. But that is exactly what we do to deaf children when we refuse to allow them to use visual cues for understanding and deny them the use of the language of signs.
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Nobody is advocating that to the deaf children, get ahold of your imagination.
Maybe the extreme audist do, but I don't see them here.
And correct me if if I'm wrong but isn't AVT a thing where the children are forced to learn what's being said without lips showing- (the one somebody is crying about) -one of a therapies for the HAided deaf kids?
wasn't your son jill in AVT at Bill Wilkersons?


Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Nobody is advocating that to the deaf children, get ahold of your imagination.
Maybe the extreme audist do, but I don't see them here.
And correct me if if I'm wrong but isn't AVT a thing where the children are forced to learn what's being said without lips showing- (the one somebody is crying about) -one of a therapies for the HAided deaf kids?
wasn't your son jill in AVT at Bill Wilkersons?


Fuzzy
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Correct fuzzy and she has yet to answer why, if as she called AVT "cruel", she subjected her son to that form of therapy in the first place, actively participated in it and continued to send her son to a form of therapy she found "cruel".

Remember also that she deems herself qualified to criticize other parents on their language and communications choices for their children--children and parents she has never met.
Rick
 
fredfam1 said:
I had my 3rd childs hearing tested at the request of a teacher when
she was in 8th grade. She had some hearing loss in both ears in the very
low pitch areas. Every one said she did not need hearing aids thought.
Also she is so tone deaf that the teacher had spend
extra time after school helping her to stay on key and she had to place
a person that sang in her range on either side to help her stay on key.
Another problem is she has very intense physical discomfort when ever
there are base noises playing anywhere. She can not stand theaters or
concerts for this reason and hates it when cars drive up playing music
so loud that she can feel the base vibration. We all can feel and hear
it, but she finds in very uncomfortable. Does anyone know a name for
this?
Click to expand...

It's labeled as a hypersensitivity to certain frequencies. I personally respond very kinesthetically to sound. Not tothe point that I am in pain, but to the point that I actually feel the sound in various parts of my body. But I also come from a family full of musicians who respond the same way, so in my case it is probably a genetic predisposition.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Shel, but it's YOUR experience.


Also, there are two things I would consider before becoming upset.
One. Maybe Cloggy meant that implanted child can not hear with HAs because the residual hearing is gone.
Two. Maybe Cloggy mean a child can't hear with HAs because of the type and greatness of its hearing loss, but can with CI.


I don't know how much and what kind of your hearing loss it, but I am sure if you can't hear without your HAs (like I do) you are pretty deaf.
So you can't then hear without HAs, or CI anything, right?

If you can hear with your HA's, but not without them, then I would guess you definitly can not hear many vowels and consonants anymore EVEN with your HAs - this is your brain that compensates for missed sounds, not your ear.
Your brain is feeling blanks for you. For example if you can not hear 'S' anymore, and somebody says to you "it's a bus" in reality all you hear "it' a bu". But your brain compensates for the missing sound, so you think you hear "it's a bus".

With long enough training (even natural training, just by living it) you master the art of oral communication to the point you don't even realize anymore what you can really hear and what not.

Moreover, you can't be sure that the sound of a passing plane or a train or anything that you hear is exactly what the hearing person hears. You accept it for true what you hear, how you hear it, but this not neccessarily what is reality, what it really sounds like.

The CI is able to produce sounds that HAs are not,
And that is what makes the whole difference, and maybe that is what Cloggy means when he says "the implanted child can hear with CI, can't hear with HAs".

I am sure there are some so profoundly deaf children that can not hear with HAs, but can with CI.

Fuzzy
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I have taken several audiology classes so I know what my HAs can or cant do. I was being silly. I guess I should have added the "LOL" at the end, huh?
 
Audiofuzzy said:
yeah, and we all know how the deaf "speak".
A hearing person can tell if not right away then after a short time that something is not right with speech.
very few deaf people can pronunce perfectly. More often this is possible with HoH, and certainly late deafened.

Fuzzy
Click to expand...

Does that really matter? As long as communication is happening, who really cares unless people worry about that too much. I stopped caring a long time ago after years of worrying about making my speech very perfect. I do the best I can do and if hearing people have a problem with that, oh well but fortunately, most of them dont.
 
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