Hearies view on a CI kid... its a bummer

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jillio said:
Sorry, but cloggy does not understand personal choice in terms of the individual. He only understands personal choice in terms of forcinghis choice ont he individual. That is not choice, it is dominance.
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Ahh, like you forced YOUR personal choice on your son.
Yes, in that case, you are right.

On the other hand. My daughter can choose to go d/Deaf when she wants to. Your son cannot go "hearing" when he wants to...

So... how much personal choice did YOU give to your SON, and how much did I give to my daughter.....
Exactly..... you gave NO choice to your son! I gave a choice to my daughter !!!

So much for "personal choice" Jillio.. Is that why you are so insecure and need to ask Deaf culture if you did the right thing??
You did the right thing. You made a choice. Your son is living with that choice...... Get over it.
 
Cloggy said:
Ahh, like you forced YOUR personal choice on your son.
Yes, in that case, you are right.

Nope, I didn't force anything on my son. I provided all of the opportunites available to him and allowed him to make his own choice.

On the other hand. My daughter can choose to go d/Deaf when she wants to. Your son cannot go "hearing" when he wants to...

Yes he can. He can choose to be implanted anytime he wants to. He simply chooses not in.

So... how much personal choice did YOU give to your SON, and how much did I give to my daughter.....
Exactly..... you gave NO choice to your son! I gave a choice to my daughter !!!

My son has had all of life's choices open to him. He has chosen the ones that hold the most value for him, not necessarily for me. You gave your daughter choices based on your value system...that being able to hear is better than being deaf.

So much for "personal choice" Jillio.. Is that why you are so insecure and need to ask Deaf culture if you did the right thing??

No need for me to ask Deaf Culture if I did the right thing. My son is evidence that I did the right thing. I am completely secure in my knowledge that I did the right thing. Deaf Culture is free to affirm that whenever a member chooses to. I don't ask for affirmation it is something that is freely given.
You did the right thing. You made a choice. Your son is living with that choice...... Get over it.
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Nothing to get over, cloggy. Ihave never wavered in my belief that I did the right thing. And, if you also beleive that you are doingthe right thing, why do you find it neccesary to continually attempt to convince posters who have a different POV than your that they are wrong? Why do you find it so neccessary to label and disrespect those who have a different POV than yours?

I'm here on this board to talk with the many deaf friends I have made here. What's your motivation?
 
Cloggy said:
The implanted child can hear with a cochlear implant, cannot with hearing aids. Hear the differences?
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Cannot hear with hearing aids, or cannot hear enough with hearing aids to develop spoken language? Very, very few deaf do not have some degree of residual hearing that can be amplified, cloggy.
 
jillio said:
Cannot hear with hearing aids, or cannot hear enough with hearing aids to develop spoken language? Very, very few deaf do not have some degree of residual hearing that can be amplified, cloggy.
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Knowing what I do now, I would have asked questions back then. But Gallaudet's hearing and speech center took a more than a casual interest in my loss (born with it) and I wasn't paying much attention. So now, yes, even at this age, all I'm really left with as to explaining it is: My nerve loss is such that there's the nerve that has to do (isn't this funny...I sound so uneducated, lol) with spoken language as opposed to those nerves that have other duties such as just sounds, per se AND, therefore, give me amplification and I'm pretty much right there as to discerning the spoken language except, of course, for thickish accents for which I don't have enough experience. I know some friends who can hear an airplane before I can but they cannot discern spoken language. Fascinating, isn't it?

Which is also why I, to this day, still very much prefer the analogs over the digitals. I think my situation might mirror quite a bit to Mr. soars here on the board. Except that he has a CI.

Ahhh, but I ramble; carry on, mates!
 
So what I'm hearing, is that since CI's improve the quality of life, therefore they should be FREE, then by that concept, EVERYTHING that improves the quality of life should be free. Free bypasses. Free livers. Free kidneys. Free brain surgery. Free eye lasering, free dental care.. BOOOOO HISSSSS to all the people who take money by HELPING people, how DARE they!!!!
 
Tousi said:
Knowing what I do now, I would have asked questions back then. But Gallaudet's hearing and speech center took a more than a casual interest in my loss (born with it) and I wasn't paying much attention. So now, yes, even at this age, all I'm really left with as to explaining it is: My nerve loss is such that there's the nerve that has to do (isn't this funny...I sound so uneducated, lol) with spoken language as opposed to those nerves that have other duties such as just sounds, per se AND, therefore, give me amplification and I'm pretty much right there as to discerning the spoken language except, of course, for thickish accents for which I don't have enough experience. I know some friends who can hear an airplane before I can but they cannot discern spoken language. Fascinating, isn't it?

Which is also why I, to this day, still very much prefer the analogs over the digitals. I think my situation might mirror quite a bit to Mr. soars here on the board. Except that he has a CI.



Ahhh, but I ramble; carry on, mates!
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My son,when he chooses to wear it, uses an analog still, and for the same reasons you have just stated.

And I'm hearing, and still have trouble with some thick accents!:giggle:
 
neecy said:
So what I'm hearing, is that since CI's improve the quality of life, therefore they should be FREE, then by that concept, EVERYTHING that improves the quality of life should be free. Free bypasses. Free livers. Free kidneys. Free brain surgery. Free eye lasering, free dental care.. BOOOOO HISSSSS to all the people who take money by HELPING people, how DARE they!!!!
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Nope, only when the manufacuter and those standing to make a huge profit off of the technology, claim to be doing it for the good of the deaf population and attempting to portray themselves as altuistic rather than profit driven. Even then, nothing wrong with making a profit, but if one is truly atruistic, then one would be donating services and devises to those deaf that cannot afford the surgery and do qualify, or to those deaf in 3rd world countries.
 
jillio said:
Nope, only when the manufacuter and those standing to make a huge profit off of the technology, claim to be doing it for the good of the deaf population and attempting to portray themselves as altuistic rather than profit driven. Even then, nothing wrong with making a profit, but if one is truly atruistic, then one would be donating services and devises to those deaf that cannot afford the surgery and do qualify, or to those deaf in 3rd world countries.
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ONLY the deaf population? No other manufacturer in the world says that what they market is helping people, when they are also making a profit?
 
jillio said:
Nope, only when the manufacuter and those standing to make a huge profit off of the technology, claim to be doing it for the good of the deaf population and attempting to portray themselves as altuistic rather than profit driven. Even then, nothing wrong with making a profit, but if one is truly atruistic, then one would be donating services and devises to those deaf that cannot afford the surgery and do qualify, or to those deaf in 3rd world countries.
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I just wanted to state - my example blows right in the face of THAT idea. My CI was free. The follow-up appointments with my audie were free. I got 2 years of batteries, audio cable, dry-store, and other odds and ends for free. NOT paid for by medical. Not paid for by insurance. Not paid for by me or my family

FREE.

PAID FOR BY COCHLEAR.

The EVIL manufacturer didn't get a penny. They helped me hear again.

Sounds altruistic to me.
 
neecy said:
ONLY the deaf population? No other manufacturer in the world says that what they market is helping people, when they are also making a profit?
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No one else makes the huge profit margin that manufacurers of CI and sugeons, not to mention referring audis, stand to make. Look at the difference in price for CI and HA. HA does not make a profit for the surgeon, nor does an HA wearer need to return to the audi for the follow up visists that a CI implantee does. And, there are organizations and manufactureres that donate HAs to lower SES children that cannot afford them, as well as other prothetic devises. Not so with CI. How many times do we hear about someone who qualifies, but their insurance will not cover the expense? There wa a post a short time ago about parents who were selling their home to pay for their child's CI becasue insurance turned them down. Where were all the surgeons and CI manufacturers then? Probably bidding on the home because they saw a chance to get it at a bargain rate and turn a profit.
 
jillio said:
No one else makes the huge profit margin that manufacurers of CI and sugeons, not to mention referring audis, stand to make. Look at the difference in price for CI and HA. HA does not make a profit for the surgeon, nor does an HA wearer need to return to the audi for the follow up visists that a CI implantee does. And, there are organizations and manufactureres that donate HAs to lower SES children that cannot afford them, as well as other prothetic devises. Not so with CI.
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see the post before yours.
 
neecy said:
I just wanted to state - my example blows right in the face of THAT idea. My CI was free. The follow-up appointments with my audie were free. I got 2 years of batteries, audio cable, dry-store, and other odds and ends for free. NOT paid for by medical. Not paid for by insurance. Not paid for by me or my family

FREE.

PAID FOR BY COCHLEAR.

The EVIL manufacturer didn't get a penny. They helped me hear again.

Sounds altruistic to me.
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Uh, huh....were you a part of a research group? Were your surgeons part of a research group? There is money to be generated there as well. It offsets the cost of the implant.
 
I was part of a clinical trial. I still didn't have to pay anything for my CI or the follow up. So even though I got my CI for free, that's not altruistic enough for you? You said that they are only in it for the money, not to help other people. They helped me.

The price difference for CI's vs HA's? If you don't know the reason for that, I can't help you there.

Here's an example. There are many manufacturers that donate stuff to help others and don't get paid.....but they STILL make a profit on the things they sell. Are they still evil, since they make money?
 
neecy said:
I was part of a clinical trial. I still didn't have to pay anything for my CI or the follow up. So even though I got my CI for free, that's not altruistic enough for you? You said that they are only in it for the money, not to help other people. They helped me.

The price difference for CI's vs HA's? If you don't know the reason for that, I can't help you there.

Here's an example. There are many manufacturers that donate stuff to help others and don't get paid.....but they STILL make a profit on the things they sell. Are they still evil, since they make money?
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There you go. Clinical trials are mandatory prior to making a devise available for the general population. They gave you a devise and in essence used you in order to fulfill legal obligations so they could sell the devise to more people and make a profit.
 
jillio said:
No one else makes the huge profit margin that manufacurers of CI and sugeons, not to mention referring audis, stand to make.
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CI manufacturers make profits (no different to HA manufacturers) but surgeons, hospitals and audies lose money on CIs. They are no more evil than other medical professionals.

Look at the difference in price for CI and HA. HA does not make a profit for the surgeon, nor does an HA wearer need to return to the audi for the follow up visists that a CI implantee does.
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Audies also work with hearing aids as well and who's to say they don't make a profit on them when they sell them? Most of us here had to trial hearing aids before we could qualify for a CI and in some cases, audies push hearing aids more than CIs. The reason for the return visits for the CI as explained to you before is because the CI has to be reprogrammed several times. There is no dark, evil purpose to squeeze money out of us, it's just the way it is.

And, there are organizations and manufactureres that donate HAs to lower SES children that cannot afford them, as well as other prothetic devises. Not so with CI. How many times do we hear about someone who qualifies, but their insurance will not cover the expense?
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There is a huge cost difference between hearing aids and the total cost of surgery and a new CI speech processor plus follow up visits. So making a comparison between the two is not quite fair. Having said that, we have the Let them Hear Foundation which fights insurance battles and manufacturers have donated to this. I believe that Advanced Bionics has donated CIs to overseas recipients as well.
 
jillio said:
Cannot hear with hearing aids, or cannot hear enough with hearing aids to develop spoken language? Very, very few deaf do not have some degree of residual hearing that can be amplified, cloggy.
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But why force those at the higher end of hearing losses to struggle with hearing aids? Hearing aids don't work very well for the profoundly deaf as you well know. My nephew tried them and then stopped by the time he was four. The CI is only designed for people with losses at that end of the spectrum, it's not meant to be interchangeable with hearing aids.

When my hearing loss increased I suppose I could have continued to wear a hearing aid, I mean it did amplify something but it sounded so distorted and it was painful too. I notice that quite a few ADer no longer wear hearing aids, basically because it does nothing for them and it's too much effort. I don't blame them! The CI takes so much hard work out of hearing compared to HAs at the hearing loss that I had.
 
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jillio said:
No one else makes the huge profit margin that manufacurers of CI and sugeons, not to mention referring audis, stand to make.
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What is the "huge" profit margin that ci manufacturers make on each implant?

What is the "huge" profit margin that a surgeon makes on each ci surgery he performs?

What is the "huge" profit margin that an audiologist makes for referring a patient for ci curgery?

Although cis are done worldwide, please give your respective answers in US dollars.
 
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