Hearies view on a CI kid... its a bummer

[jillio]

*cough* Anti-CI gang? LOL. The only anti-CI'ers here are me and sweetmind. The rest are just resonably promoting bi-bi, a method that is the most popular among researchers and scientists. The problem you have with bi-bi, is that CI is not crucial for success in bi-bi programs. That does not mean that bi-bi is anti-CI at all, a lot of CI-kids success in bi-bi programs after mainstream failures.

Btw, a man in white cloak asked for you.

I she also wearing a hood?

And thank you for pointing out what has been reiterated time and time and time again.

 

[shel90]

I she also wearing a hood?

And thank you for pointing out what has been reiterated time and time and time again.

I found this ...

Kalalau's Korner: As KKK is to White Supremacy, So is AGB to Hearing Supremacy


"Those who believe as I do, that

the production of a defective race

of human beings would be

a great calamity to the world,

will examine carefully the causes

that lead to the intermarriage

of the deaf with the object

of applying a remedy ."

- Alexander Graham Bell


Whereas the Ku Klux Klan’s (KKK’s) long history of violence grew out of the resentment and hatred many white Southerners felt toward Blacks, the Alexander Graham Bell (AGB) folks had recently launched the complete intolerance of deafness and the resentment of sign languages of all the Deaf. Alexander Graham Bell called Deaf people "a defective race of human beings," and he began a racism--a hate crime.

We the Deaf are now faced with a new struggle against widespread linguistic racism. The menace of AGB folks is now peaking, and they are collecting supporters from people, especially those with cochlear implants, in expropriating the Deaf babies from sign language and distributing “hearing supremacy.” It is better to hear than to be Deaf.

Today it seems incredible that an organization so bigot, so opposed to the American principles of justice and equality, could be regarded such respect. How did the AGB as one of the nation’s prejudice groups so instantly sized the world of medicine and education?

American Sign Language (ASL) is all around us. ASL classes are more demanding than ever before. More and more Americans are learning ASL. But many folks learn, often through AGB, to be intimidated by the world of sounds; they fear ASL is encrypted in a secret code they never got access to.

AGB is a hate group; they hate that Deaf babies do not hear. They hate that we use ASL. They hate to be asked about ASL, too! I hope this blog, “As KKK is to White Supremacy, so is AGB to Hearing Supremacy,” dispels the false notion that there is a society of hearing people who have a hold on the “right” way to hear, to speak, to live, and to make meanings. AGB must be stopped!

posted by Carl Schroeder @ 6:38 PM 11 comments links to this post

11 Comments:
At 8:31 PM, Paul said...
Hey Carl:

You got that right!

AGB = KKK

thanks
=)


At 1:18 AM, John Egbert said...
This should be in the editorial page of every newspapers in the United States!!!!

And I will look up in the google for the editorial department of every major newspapers in USA and tell them that this is what is really going on in America. And how true that AGBell and its associates can legally deny the deaf babies's natural language.

It is time to get out of the "closet" and tell the world(newspapers) how you feel about the AGBell and its associate's abuse to Deaf's education and language since 1880.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!

ACT NOW!!

John F. Egbert


At 4:16 AM, ASL Risen said...
YES, BRILLIANT IDEA, John Egbert! Carl is RIGHT and has very good wisdom!!! Go for it, John! I want to see it in my city newspaper! Pls do let me know how did you get them publish asap! Hugs, Shawn


At 4:18 AM, ASL lover said...
I would give you the biggggest trophy!

KKK=AGBell

Yea!!!! (dancing and praises)


At 5:06 AM, deafk said...
Hey, Carl,

Thanks for bringing it up. I was thinking of AGB superior to us concept... KKK equal AGB says for me!!

deafk


At 8:42 AM, Anonymous said...
wow... what a provoking posting... like blacks we deafies can fight back... it is time for AGB to stop trashing/denying/degrading/cheapening our beloved ASL and deaf culture.

by the way it was nice meeting with you at the march.

howard


At 11:29 AM, JABParis said...
Carl,

Well said! You got it exactly right that AGB advocate to eradicate ASL and I am adding Deaf. I am surprised that Deaf and HOH AGB members are supporting this concept as if AGB is to destroy their Deaf members and supporters just like KKK wanted to destroy other races as well as Deaf people. This is what many other oralist supporters as well as Moogs who wanted to destroy ASL and Deaf people.

This is a good way to use media to educate the public. It is like we are going back to Nazi and KKK period all over again. What are they trying to do to us? Are they afraid that we are as equal as they (hearing people) are?

Judy


At 6:04 PM, Jean Boutcher said...
Not only AGB. There are elitists, influenced by Aristotle, Plato, Hitler, and others who want to dwell in a utopia with "perfect" people. Aristotle told the Greek government to dump deaf people in the forest. Even in the 21st century (2001), North Korea's president Kim Jong II transports deaf people to the remotest villages and lets them starve to death.

They feel that deaf people are a burden to the government in general and taxpayers in particular. See utopism in Plato's "Republic". Again, Nietzsche's "Thus Spake Zarathusthra" (Aryanism in ancient Iran (Persia).

Why?

Simply put: they have no SENSO COMUNE! They do not know that deaf people are educable! Alas!


At 7:27 PM, Joey Baer said...
Excellent! Excellent! Excellent! It is time for us to stand up against AGB!


At 7:57 PM, John Warren said...
Who the hell AGB is but I definitely know ASL! Thank to God for being my deafness and my valuable ASL!

John Warren, Creator of Reverse Planet


At 3:36 AM, Katherine said...
They both do parallel and awareness about that needs to be made for the public!

 

[jillio]

Interesting. I never had formal AVT but was taught by a school of thought that believed that oral language should develop naturally and without inhibitation. So it was more play therapy and then when I became older, the teachers of the deaf spent an hour each week with me talking about hobbies, politics, what was on TV etc. They also acted as a facilitator at my mainstream school. One time I decided I no longer wanted to attend music lessons, so they arranged that for me.

In your son's case did it involve having to repeat the word or sound many times until he got it right?

Yes, repetition was a part of it. One part that he truly enjoyed was a computer assisted program that showed a little train on the screen, and everytime his pronunciation was correct, the train would move across the screen. Entertaining for a toddler!

The biggest facet of AVT that caused his frustration, however, was making him rely completely on his aided residual hearing, to the point of often covering the therapist's mouth to force it. That is the A portion of AVT that creates so much frustration for a deaf child, IMO. But it is such a structured, rigid way to try to get the language into a deaf child that their language usage is generally very rigid as well. Even though I will admit that the speech and language portions of AVT proved to be some benfit to my son in developing his speech skills, his English usage is much more rigid and concrete than his use of ASL. Perhaps that is why he prefers sign. He can express himself with a degree of creativity that he simply wa never able to achieve with spoken English.

 

[jillio]

I found this ...

Kalalau's Korner: As KKK is to White Supremacy, So is AGB to Hearing Supremacy


"Those who believe as I do, that

the production of a defective race

of human beings would be

a great calamity to the world,

will examine carefully the causes

that lead to the intermarriage

of the deaf with the object

of applying a remedy ."

- Alexander Graham Bell


Whereas the Ku Klux Klan’s (KKK’s) long history of violence grew out of the resentment and hatred many white Southerners felt toward Blacks, the Alexander Graham Bell (AGB) folks had recently launched the complete intolerance of deafness and the resentment of sign languages of all the Deaf. Alexander Graham Bell called Deaf people "a defective race of human beings," and he began a racism--a hate crime.

We the Deaf are now faced with a new struggle against widespread linguistic racism. The menace of AGB folks is now peaking, and they are collecting supporters from people, especially those with cochlear implants, in expropriating the Deaf babies from sign language and distributing “hearing supremacy.” It is better to hear than to be Deaf.

Today it seems incredible that an organization so bigot, so opposed to the American principles of justice and equality, could be regarded such respect. How did the AGB as one of the nation’s prejudice groups so instantly sized the world of medicine and education?

American Sign Language (ASL) is all around us. ASL classes are more demanding than ever before. More and more Americans are learning ASL. But many folks learn, often through AGB, to be intimidated by the world of sounds; they fear ASL is encrypted in a secret code they never got access to.

AGB is a hate group; they hate that Deaf babies do not hear. They hate that we use ASL. They hate to be asked about ASL, too! I hope this blog, “As KKK is to White Supremacy, so is AGB to Hearing Supremacy,” dispels the false notion that there is a society of hearing people who have a hold on the “right” way to hear, to speak, to live, and to make meanings. AGB must be stopped!

posted by Carl Schroeder @ 6:38 PM 11 comments links to this post

11 Comments:
At 8:31 PM, Paul said...
Hey Carl:

You got that right!

AGB = KKK

thanks
=)


At 1:18 AM, John Egbert said...
This should be in the editorial page of every newspapers in the United States!!!!

And I will look up in the google for the editorial department of every major newspapers in USA and tell them that this is what is really going on in America. And how true that AGBell and its associates can legally deny the deaf babies's natural language.

It is time to get out of the "closet" and tell the world(newspapers) how you feel about the AGBell and its associate's abuse to Deaf's education and language since 1880.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!

ACT NOW!!

John F. Egbert


At 4:16 AM, ASL Risen said...
YES, BRILLIANT IDEA, John Egbert! Carl is RIGHT and has very good wisdom!!! Go for it, John! I want to see it in my city newspaper! Pls do let me know how did you get them publish asap! Hugs, Shawn


At 4:18 AM, ASL lover said...
I would give you the biggggest trophy!

KKK=AGBell

Yea!!!! (dancing and praises)


At 5:06 AM, deafk said...
Hey, Carl,

Thanks for bringing it up. I was thinking of AGB superior to us concept... KKK equal AGB says for me!!

deafk


At 8:42 AM, Anonymous said...
wow... what a provoking posting... like blacks we deafies can fight back... it is time for AGB to stop trashing/denying/degrading/cheapening our beloved ASL and deaf culture.

by the way it was nice meeting with you at the march.

howard


At 11:29 AM, JABParis said...
Carl,

Well said! You got it exactly right that AGB advocate to eradicate ASL and I am adding Deaf. I am surprised that Deaf and HOH AGB members are supporting this concept as if AGB is to destroy their Deaf members and supporters just like KKK wanted to destroy other races as well as Deaf people. This is what many other oralist supporters as well as Moogs who wanted to destroy ASL and Deaf people.

This is a good way to use media to educate the public. It is like we are going back to Nazi and KKK period all over again. What are they trying to do to us? Are they afraid that we are as equal as they (hearing people) are?

Judy


At 6:04 PM, Jean Boutcher said...
Not only AGB. There are elitists, influenced by Aristotle, Plato, Hitler, and others who want to dwell in a utopia with "perfect" people. Aristotle told the Greek government to dump deaf people in the forest. Even in the 21st century (2001), North Korea's president Kim Jong II transports deaf people to the remotest villages and lets them starve to death.

They feel that deaf people are a burden to the government in general and taxpayers in particular. See utopism in Plato's "Republic". Again, Nietzsche's "Thus Spake Zarathusthra" (Aryanism in ancient Iran (Persia).

Why?

Simply put: they have no SENSO COMUNE! They do not know that deaf people are educable! Alas!


At 7:27 PM, Joey Baer said...
Excellent! Excellent! Excellent! It is time for us to stand up against AGB!


At 7:57 PM, John Warren said...
Who the hell AGB is but I definitely know ASL! Thank to God for being my deafness and my valuable ASL!

John Warren, Creator of Reverse Planet


At 3:36 AM, Katherine said...
They both do parallel and awareness about that needs to be made for the public!

Discrimination and oppression of any minority based on superficial characteristics used to determine their worthiness or capabilities is bigotry, no matter what fancy name you give to the organization!

 

[deafskeptic]

The biggest facet of AVT that caused his frustration, however, was making him rely completely on his aided residual hearing, to the point of often covering the therapist's mouth to force it. That is the A portion of AVT that creates so much frustration for a deaf child, IMO.

I count myself fortunate that I never encountered this philosophy when I was growing up. I would have loathed it. I know from personal experience I'd not have had much success of making sense of words that I heard but was unable to lipread. When I wore my hearing aid, all I could have could have told you if the speaker on the radio was male or female. That's it.

While I think AVT is a useful tool for learning to listen, you must be able to benefit well enough from HAS or CIs for it to work.

 

[jillio]

I count myself fortunate that I never encountered this philosophy when I was growing up. I would have loathed it. I know from personal experience I'd not have had much success of making sense of words that I heard but was unable to lipread. When I wore my hearing aid, all I could have could have told you if the speaker on the radio was male or female. That's it.

While I think AVT is a useful tool for learning to listen, you must be able to benefit well enough from HAS or CIs for it to work.

You are correct in this, deafskeptic. AVT is hardly a new concept that has come about with CI. And it produces questionable results. Particularly so because, even with benefit from a devise, you are still requesting that a child rely on their weakest sensory perception for understanding. A strengths based approach makes much more sense.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Interesting. I never had formal AVT but was taught by a school of thought that believed that oral language should develop naturally and without inhibitation. So it was more play therapy and then when I became older, the teachers of the deaf spent an hour each week with me talking about hobbies, politics, what was on TV etc. They also acted as a facilitator at my mainstream school. One time I decided I no longer wanted to attend music lessons, so they arranged that for me.

In your son's case did it involve having to repeat the word or sound many times until he got it right?

It wasn't really about repeating the words over and over again. It was more of a change of life for us. We just do things more differently. We try to make everything our son was interested in turn into a fun language learning envirnoment. It wasn't about sitting doing speech lessons it was playing with him in ways that he was interested in and feeding him the language.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Yes, repetition was a part of it. One part that he truly enjoyed was a computer assisted program that showed a little train on the screen, and everytime his pronunciation was correct, the train would move across the screen. Entertaining for a toddler!

The biggest facet of AVT that caused his frustration, however, was making him rely completely on his aided residual hearing, to the point of often covering the therapist's mouth to force it. That is the A portion of AVT that creates so much frustration for a deaf child, IMO. But it is such a structured, rigid way to try to get the language into a deaf child that their language usage is generally very rigid as well. Even though I will admit that the speech and language portions of AVT proved to be some benfit to my son in developing his speech skills, his English usage is much more rigid and concrete than his use of ASL. Perhaps that is why he prefers sign. He can express himself with a degree of creativity that he simply wa never able to achieve with spoken English.

Jillo AVT has changed a bit since your son was in AVT. We are now taught not to cover our mouths. We are taught to use a more natural way. We still focus on the hearing. When I am doing therapy with my students I have them sit next to me. Better hearing ear to me. If they really try to focus on my mouth then I move my face where they cannot see my mouth moving.

That computer program you talk about, it really is not used much any more. I actually have the program in my class but I do not use it because it is not really a natual way to teach speech. I do use it as a fun game but not when I am focusing on the vocabulary and language development. WIth the age group I work with I am not focused on articulaton but on vocabulary and language development.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Cloggy doesn't understand a "personal choice decision"

On the contrary - Cloggy understands what "personal choice decison" VERY WELL. But You, on the other hand, don't understand what "window of opportunity is". The proof for that is, you were unable to reply me when I asked you about it MANY TIMES.

According to you, personal choice is when you miss an opportunity to hear and then tell your child "oh but honey I know you will never hear as good as you would if I implanted you early, but I believed the choice is yours. too bad is too late for better results."


Fuzzy

 

[Cheri]

On the contrary - Cloggy understands what "personal choice decison" VERY WELL. But You, on the other hand, don't understand what "window of opportunity is". The proof for that is, you were unable to reply me when I asked you about it MANY TIMES.

According to you, personal choice is when you miss an opportunity to hear and then tell your child "oh but honey I know you will never hear as good as you would if I implanted you early, but I believed the choice is yours. too bad is too late for better results."


Fuzzy

Oh Does he really understands what "personal choice decision is?" And so do you? :sure: I for one do not need you to speak for Cloggy, He can speak for himself. This is what I have a issue with >>

The implanted child is being 'married' for life with a cochlear implant, doesn't have to with hearing aids. See the differences?

I do understand the window opportunity but not every child can do the same amount as another child with implant. Every person is different, so please remind yourself don't expect so much out of cochlear implant, just the same goes for hearing aids.

Some people would want to hear but on the other hand there are some people who don't think it is even necessary to hear in order to have a successful language development, Deaf people can have a successful language development without the need of use of cochlear implant. I for one don't think it is necessary for me to hear. It's a choice, Do you want to hear or you don't.

If you think having hearing is so important to you, then why don't you get a cochlear implant.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

On the contrary - Cloggy understands what "personal choice decison" VERY WELL. But You, on the other hand, don't understand what "window of opportunity is". The proof for that is, you were unable to reply me when I asked you about it MANY TIMES.

According to you, personal choice is when you miss an opportunity to hear and then tell your child "oh but honey I know you will never hear as good as you would if I implanted you early, but I believed the choice is yours. too bad is too late for better results."


Fuzzy

You have nailed it, Fuzzy.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Oh Does he really understands what "personal choice decision is?" And so do you? :sure: I for one do not need you to speak for Cloggy, He can speak for himself. This is what I have a issue with >>

The implanted child is being 'married' for life with a cochlear implant, doesn't have to with hearing aids. See the differences?

I do understand the window opportunity but not every child can do the same amount as another child with implant. Every person is different, so please remind yourself don't expect so much out of cochlear implant, just the same goes for hearing aids.

Some people would want to hear but on the other hand there are some people who don't think it is even necessary to hear in order to have a successful language development, Deaf people can have a successful language development without the need of use of cochlear implant. I for one don't think it is necessary for me to hear. It's a choice, Do you want to hear or you don't.

If you think having hearing is so important to you, then why don't you get a cochlear implant.

Cheri the picture you posted is adorable but maybe if you trying to be anit CI you should have picked a picture where a child look like it was in pain or uncomfortable. This child looks happy and content.

 

[rick48]

You have nailed it, Fuzzy.

That's right Fuzzy, you are right on target!
Rick

 

[rick48]

It wasn't really about repeating the words over and over again. It was more of a change of life for us. We just do things more differently. We try to make everything our son was interested in turn into a fun language learning envirnoment. It wasn't about sitting doing speech lessons it was playing with him in ways that he was interested in and feeding him the language.

Jackie,

You are taking the words right out of my mouth (don't worry my foot is still there).

That is how it was with us. We just made certain to always talk and explain things to our daughter, and to use words to describe what we were doing or what was happening around her.

An advantage we had is that not only did my wife have a masters in Special Ed but she had taught grades 1 or 2 before our daughter was born. She is great at taking anything, like a trip to the beach and making it a fun event talking about the waves, the sand, the water, etc without our daughter ever knowing that she was getting s&L therapy all the while.

As I am certain you experienced as well, not only did our kids learn to speak but we have, and escpecially my wife, have an extremely close relationship with our daughter as we talk often and about everything.

These people who talk about "hours of therapy" really have no clue. Maybe it was for them, but not for my child.
Rick

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Jackie,

You are taking the words right out of my mouth (don't worry my foot is still there).

That is how it was with us. We just made certain to always talk and explain things to our daughter, and to use words to describe what we were doing or what was happening around her.

An advantage we had is that not only did my wife have a masters in Special Ed but she had taught grades 1 or 2 before our daughter was born. She is great at taking anything, like a trip to the beach and making it a fun event talking about the waves, the sand, the water, etc without our daughter ever knowing that she was getting s&L therapy all the while.

As I am certain you experienced as well, not only did our kids learn to speak but we have, and escpecially my wife, have an extremely close relationship with our daughter as we talk often and about everything.

These people who talk about "hours of therapy" really have no clue. Maybe it was for them, but not for my child.
Rick

Rick that is exactly how it was for us. When my daughter had to study California history we took a trip up to coast to San Fran. When it was my son's turn went up the Great Valley to the captiol for his California history adventure. We even included our extended family on our road trips like when went to see the giant red wood trees. Our vacation were fun but they were learning experiences.
Even daily life became a learning experience. I remember taking 3 hours in the market because we talk about we were gong to buy and how we were going to prepare it.

 

[R2D2]

On the contrary - Cloggy understands what "personal choice decison" VERY WELL. But You, on the other hand, don't understand what "window of opportunity is". The proof for that is, you were unable to reply me when I asked you about it MANY TIMES.

According to you, personal choice is when you miss an opportunity to hear and then tell your child "oh but honey I know you will never hear as good as you would if I implanted you early, but I believed the choice is yours. too bad is too late for better results."
Fuzzy

Have to agree with this. Waiting until a very deaf child makes their own choice is really only a hollow, symbolic choice. It's not really a choice in practice at all and in fact I'd probably talk a deaf adult who was too deaf to benefit from hearing aids during the window of opportunity out of getting a CI because the results would likely be very disappointing, result in headaches etc.

We had a poster here recently who even got refused a CI on those grounds as well even though she appealed etc. So some people in that category might not be able to find a program willing to implant them. People may have noticed that just about every single one of us deaf adults here on AD who got approved for our CIs as adults had hearing aids as children and developed oral language. Insurance companies basically want to see that the CI is going to benefit us before they shell out the dosh.

So I think that people need to be honest and recognise that waiting until adulthood is indeed making a choice for that child. It might be the right choice, depending on the family, circumstances and philosophy that you have but it's still a choice at the end of the day.

 

[shel90]

Have to agree with this. Waiting until a very deaf child makes their own choice is really only a hollow, symbolic choice. It's not really a choice in practice at all and in fact I'd probably talk a deaf adult who was too deaf to benefit from hearing aids during the window of opportunity out of getting a CI because the results would likely be very disappointing, result in headaches etc.

We had a poster here recently who even got refused a CI on those grounds as well even though she appealed etc. So some people in that category might not be able to find a program willing to implant them. People may have noticed that just about every single one of us deaf adults here on AD who got approved for our CIs as adults had hearing aids as children and developed oral language. Insurance companies basically want to see that the CI is going to benefit us before they shell out the dosh.

So I think that people need to be honest and recognise that waiting until adulthood is indeed making a choice for that child. It might be the right choice, depending on the family, circumstances and philosophy that you have but it's still a choice at the end of the day.

Yea, it is a choice and it should be a personal one whether it is not to implant or to implant. I think it is not worth arguing over it cuz people are gonna do what they want to do.

 

[Cheri]

Cheri the picture you posted is adorable but maybe if you trying to be anit CI you should have picked a picture where a child look like it was in pain or uncomfortable. This child looks happy and content.

You are wrong about me, Don't assume me of being anti-CI, I've said this more than thousand times that I'm against implant on children/babies, not the implant itself. Understand the differences?

A abused baby can smile on camera too, pictures don't always tell that this child or person is happy. Don't be so naive.

 

[jillio]

You have nailed it, Fuzzy.

Sorry, but cloggy does not understand personal choice in terms of the individual. He only understands personal choice in terms of forcinghis choice ont he individual. That is not choice, it is dominance.

 

[jillio]

It wasn't really about repeating the words over and over again. It was more of a change of life for us. We just do things more differently. We try to make everything our son was interested in turn into a fun language learning envirnoment. It wasn't about sitting doing speech lessons it was playing with him in ways that he was interested in and feeding him the language.

Exactly. Rather than allowing him to learn peripherally, AVT turns everything into a directive, goal oriented regimented activity. Children learn best from engaging in nondirected play. When you jump in and turn everything into a lesson, you interupt the natural developmental flow that occurs and learning is rigid. I'm surprised, given that you claim to have studied Vygotsky, Piaget, and Gardner, that you don't seem to understand that. A child has fun learning language in a natural relaxed, non-directive environment. A child does not have to be fed language.