Hearies view on a CI kid... its a bummer

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Cloggy said:
A: That's the answer to "when do you start".... but how long before a decision can be made to go for CI ??

B: What deaf expo's ?? How about letting my child meet other children with CI...???

C: No, I don't have to include sign. THAT's the whole point. She can speak, and probably lipreads very well. Why would she also need sign?
Learning Italian or Spanish would be more beneficial than sign.
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The bolded words are the answer to why whe would also need sign. Receptive language is as important to a child's development as expressive language. To base her need for sign on her ability to use her voice is to neglect a full 1/2 of the purpose of language and communication.

Learning Italian or Spanish would perhaps be as useful if she were in a stiuationwhere she was likely to lean toward the Spansih or Italian communities. However, as she is deaf, and like everyone on this earth, has a very real need to assoicate with others who share her circumstances, sign and being able to communicate fullly with other deaf will no doubt provide more of a benefit to her.
 
Cloggy said:
Sounds all very noble etc. However, sounds to me that you dragged your child away from the friends and family that you allready had.
That is also a choice. Taking your child away from all the people that would like to meet him, and learning a language that these people will not understand is the result of it (or - can be..)

We made the choice for Lotte that she would grow up between our friends and family, and for her to be able to hear, and with that learn the language of her family, friends, and the language of all other people around her...
That's also a possibility..

Both of us feel we made the right choice. Both of our children are happy and well-adjusted... in their own worlds..
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Actually, cloggy, I have family in the state in which we live now, and the one that I chose to relocate to. In addition, he had available an excellent school for the deaf where he was able to form friendships that continue to this day. He was in an environment that provided him with deaf adults that could serve as mentors, and that is a very important aspect in the development of identity and self concept.

Perhaps being unwilling to change locations in order to provide a better atmosphere for their child is more the fear of change that resides within the parents than a decison made for the welfare of the child. The parents' reluctance to leave what they feel is comfortable is a powerful motivator in making a decision.

And, to use your phrasing, I did not "drag my child away" from anything. I relocated in order to provide him with an environment that greatly increased his opportunites. I refused to settle for what was immediately available, and instead went where he would be provided with greater quality in educational and socializtion opportunites. Are you suggesting that it would have been preferable to settle for second best just to prevent the inconvienience of a move?
 
Cloggy said:
Perhaps:

"We were deaf,
We struggled with communication,
We learned signlanguage...
... and finally we could communicate with my own little group.
And therefore, the sooner the child learns sign, the sooner it can communicate with it's little group...

No need to make it easy for them to communicate with a large group... we tried that, and we felt miserable.
No reason why they should have it easier than us..."
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One must learn to communicate with one's own little group before one is able to apply what what has learned in that environment to the greater society as a whole.
 
Cloggy said:
It's not a struggle... It's mother nature...
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No, mother nature determined that she would be deaf. You determined that she would "hear".

And regarding the struggle to hear and speak for deaf children....I think the stories of the numerous deaf posters on this board validates the struggle. If it were not a stuggle, AVT would not be a neccesity. Oral language would develop as naturally as it does in hearing children. The very fact that hearing and speaking must be taught through formalized and directive instruction in children with hearing loss is evidence of the struggle.
 
Angel said:
How about ALL children ( deaf, blind, HC, hoh, ci, etc ) :D




because she is still deaf without her implant...and it's fun signing with other deaf children 2....let a kid be a kid
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You hit the nail on the head, angel!
 
Cheri said:
Yea true we are not hearing, but they're not deaf, their children are. :whistle:
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Good point. And rather than determining their child's needs fromthe perspective of the deaf, they attempt to determine their child's needs from their own perspective....that of the hearing. The deaf are the best equipped to determine the needs of the deaf.
 
jag said:
oh it;s not that I would ignore the signal lights, it's the other driver who might and crash into me. Life includes risks driving is just as risky if not more then the CI surgery. The surgery only happens once, the car on a daily basis for most.
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Kind of like a hearing parent ignoring the warning signs of their child's need for visual cues in language and communication, huh? Creates a big car wreck for the child, but the child is not the one responsible for the accident. But they are the one that suffers the consequences.
 
jillio said:
Actually, cloggy, I have family in the state in which we live now, and the one that I chose to relocate to. In addition, he had available an excellent school for the deaf where he was able to form friendships that continue to this day. He was in an environment that provided him with deaf adults that could serve as mentors, and that is a very important aspect in the development of identity and self concept.

Perhaps being unwilling to change locations in order to provide a better atmosphere for their child is more the fear of change that resides within the parents than a decison made for the welfare of the child. The parents' reluctance to leave what they feel is comfortable is a powerful motivator in making a decision.

And, to use your phrasing, I did not "drag my child away" from anything. I relocated in order to provide him with an environment that greatly increased his opportunites. I refused to settle for what was immediately available, and instead went where he would be provided with greater quality in educational and socializtion opportunites. Are you suggesting that it would have been preferable to settle for second best just to prevent the inconvienience of a move?
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This is the kind of attitude that scared my parents. When I went deaf, they were FULLY ready to relocate 500 miles away to be next to Jericho Hill School for the Deaf in Vancouver BC, in order to give me what they had been lead to believe was the best opportunities for me. They were horrified when they were informed that I, newly deaf (for less than 6 months at the time) would be REQUIRED to live at the school and would only be allowed home one weekend a month. They were going to buy a home right in the neighborhood of the school, so I had access to both hearing and deaf. I was given the choice myself - and the thought of being forced to live away from my parents, so soon after going deaf, terrified me. Of course when I made my decision, my parents were attacked by the deaf teachers, and told they were destroying my "only chance at happiness." Sorry, but slapping a newly-deafened girl into an institute and cutting her off from the only family she has doesn't sound like a happy scenario me! I couldn't believe it when the principal started screaming at my parents, telling my mother she was a horrible parent, and that their choice not to put me in the deaf school was tantamount to abuse!!!! (I won't even get into the history at that school and how a decades long sexual abuse scandal closed it. I was safer at home than at a deaf school! At least I didn't have to fear constant sexual abuse from teachers/counselors/other students!)

My point is - communication with other deaf children might be NICE, but its not the only way to have a healthy, happy, well rounded deaf child! If you live close to a deaf community - then all the power to you - but citing my personal experience - its not always a reality!
 
neecy said:
I'd like to ask a question - just WHY is it so vital that a deaf child communicate with other deaf children? Why is the assumption automatically made that the child will have ACCESS to other deaf children right off the bat?

Yes, I went deaf when I was 9 years old, and NO, I didn't meet any deaf children while I was a child! Did my parents "prevent me" from meeting any? Far from it- we lived in a location that was more than 500 miles from the nearest deaf community. Traveling that far was out of question just to meet deaf children. I did know several deaf adults - but they communicated like I did - orally/lipreading. I didn't meet any deaf "peers" until I was 22 and went to RIT/NTID. Does that mean I was deprived in any way? Far from it- I had an incredibly happy, full life. Just realize - While communication with the deaf community is a good thing for a child (and not in the whole "deaf pride" aspect either - but to allow the child to meet others like them,) a child's happiness and wholesomeness does NOT hinge on their talking to other deaf children.



Is it not possible to make lifelong hearing friends? I did. I don't base who I become friends with on their deafness or lack thereof. I don't know anybody who would.
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No, it depends on communication with those who share their existence. For the prelingually deaf child, that is other deaf children. Yes, it is possible to raise a deaf child without exposure tothe deaf community....however, they will generally develop a self concept that is based on their being a hearing personwith a handicap or disability, not as a whole deaf person who is a member of a cultural and liguistically different group. "There are many implications for the difference in perception. But there is a difference between living a full and successful life AS a deaf person, and living a full and successful life DESPITE being a deaf person.
 
neecy said:
This is the kind of attitude that scared my parents. When I went deaf, they were FULLY ready to relocate 500 miles away to be next to Jericho Hill School for the Deaf in Vancouver BC, in order to give me what they had been lead to believe was the best opportunities for me. They were horrified when they were informed that I, newly deaf (for less than 6 months at the time) would be REQUIRED to live at the school and would only be allowed home one weekend a month. They were going to buy a home right in the neighborhood of the school, so I had access to both hearing and deaf. I was given the choice myself - and the thought of being forced to live away from my parents, so soon after going deaf, terrified me. Of course when I made my decision, my parents were attacked by the deaf teachers, and told they were destroying my "only chance at happiness." Sorry, but slapping a newly-deafened girl into an institute and cutting her off from the only family she has doesn't sound like a happy scenario me! I couldn't believe it when the principal started screaming at my parents, telling my mother she was a horrible parent, and that their choice not to put me in the deaf school was tantamount to abuse!!!! (I won't even get into the history at that school and how a decades long sexual abuse scandal closed it. I was safer at home than at a deaf school! At least I didn't have to fear constant sexual abuse from teachers/counselors/other students!)

My point is - communication with other deaf children might be NICE, but its not the only way to have a healthy, happy, well rounded deaf child! If you live close to a deaf community - then all the power to you - but citing my personal experience - its not always a reality!
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I relocated in order that my son not have to live at the school, but could attend as a day student. Perhaps the Jericho school wa not the best environment. What stopped them fromsearching for others?
 
jillio said:
I relocated in order that my son not have to live at the school, but could attend as a day student. Perhaps the Jericho school wa not the best environment. What stopped them fromsearching for others?
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There WERE no others! Not unless they wanted to move across the country, and that wasn't a possibility.
 
jillio said:
...... However, as she is deaf, and like everyone on this earth, has a very real need to assoicate with others who share her circumstances, sign and being able to communicate fullly with other deaf will no doubt provide more of a benefit to her.
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Nonsense!
 
Most of my Real life friends are hearing and sighted. However, I find I relate better to other deafblind people as we share experience that my hearing sighted friends don't have so don't really understand.
 
jillio said:
Hmmmm. And why wasn't it a possibility?
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For one, the other deaf institutes in other provinces (I live in Canada) were boarding schools as well, and for another, my parents didn't have the financial means to move out of province and both find new jobs. The area we were going to move to near Jericho Hill School for the Deaf was in a place where both my parents could have transferred their jobs. Out of province wasn't a possibility. Is that sufficient enough or do I need to go into greater detail?
 
(I won't even get into the history at that school and how a decades long sexual abuse scandal closed it. I was safer at home than at a deaf school! At least I didn't have to fear constant sexual abuse from teachers/counselors/other students!)
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I happened to meet a couple from this school who were abused. You were so lucky having parents who didn't gave in to this "deaf culture" nonsense.
I am all for deaf culture ON ONE'S FREE WILL.

But bullying people into it- what the heck??

Fuzzy
 
neecy said:
I'd like to ask a question - just WHY is it so vital that a deaf child communicate with other deaf children? Why is the assumption automatically made that the child will have ACCESS to other deaf children right off the bat?

Yes, I went deaf when I was 9 years old, and NO, I didn't meet any deaf children while I was a child! Did my parents "prevent me" from meeting any? Far from it- we lived in a location that was more than 500 miles from the nearest deaf community. Traveling that far was out of question just to meet deaf children. I did know several deaf adults - but they communicated like I did - orally/lipreading. I didn't meet any deaf "peers" until I was 22 and went to RIT/NTID. Does that mean I was deprived in any way? Far from it- I had an incredibly happy, full life. Just realize - While communication with the deaf community is a good thing for a child (and not in the whole "deaf pride" aspect either - but to allow the child to meet others like them,) a child's happiness and wholesomeness does NOT hinge on their talking to other deaf children.



Is it not possible to make lifelong hearing friends? I did. I don't base who I become friends with on their deafness or lack thereof. I don't know anybody who would.
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Never said anything about not making life long hearing friends. This was about expressing my wishes to being able to communicate with Deaf people. U made life long hearing friends...good for u.

I never based my friendships on who was deaf or not...my hearing friends werent interesting in keeping in touch with me cuz they got tired of using the relay. I cant do all the work so I am not gonna kiss their asses and keep meeting their needs. It is about meeting halfway..if they couldnt meet my needs some way, I am moving on.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
I am all for deaf culture ON ONE'S FREE WILL.
Fuzzy
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Deaf children with cochlear implants don't have free will to choose, Parents make the choice which world the child should explore to, while we advise that the child should be included in both worlds, don't you think it'll be fair for the child to know both worlds?
 
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