Hearies view on a CI kid... its a bummer

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rick48 said:
Do not disagree with you and I know many adults who did so but of those adults who subsequently got a ci later in life they universally wish that it had been available to them when they were children. I also know that for my daughter, a profoundly deaf child who did not benefit from HAs, it would have been a struggle for her to learn to speak without a cochlear implant and the fact that with it her language development literally exploded tells us something also.

I guess what I do not understand is the philosophy that suggests that she, or any child, should be made to struggle? Why? Where is the logic, and as some would suggest, the compassion or empathy, in saying that it is permissible for a child to use HAs that do not help the child at all and for the child to struggle to learn to speak and to hear but it is not permissible for the child to use a cochelar implant which, for our daughter did allow her to speak and to hear? As parents we chose to possibly eliminate or to alleviate that struggle. We were not made any guaranties as to what the ci would do for our child and we both had done our research to know that there were no such guaranties. I guess in the end, we just have a different philosophy as to how to raise a child. Not better or worse, just different.
Rick
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Why must a child be made to struggle to speak and/or hear at all?
 
jillio said:
Its really neat that you said that your problems started in the 5th grade, because it has been demonstrated that the socializtion problems will get bad for any child that is different in any way at jsut about the 5th or 6th grade in school. Its not the grade that is the magical number, but the age of the children int hat grade and the developmental tasks that they are working on at that point. Have you noticed also, that a lot of deaf kids get transferred to deaf schools from the mainstream at about the same age?
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Not really because the number of deaf kids getting referred to our school is about the same across all grade levels. We just got a new girl last week referred from the public school in the 5th grade. Last year, I got 3 new 1st graders referred from the public school in so it depends on each year.
 
shel90 said:
Not really because the number of deaf kids getting referred to our school is about the same across all grade levels. We just got a new girl last week referred from the public school in the 5th grade. Last year, I got 3 new 1st graders referred from the public school in so it depends on each year.
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Thanks. I was just wondering.
 
shel90 said:
Right...never seen any deaf native signers completely isolate themselves from the hearing society completely. Maybe, they prefer to socialize with other signers but if hearing people prefer to socialize with other hearing people, what's wrong with deaf people preferring to socialize with other deaf people or signers? Nothing wrong with that..why is being around hearing people better than being around deaf people?

No I do not think there is nothing with that, what I mean is not socially but with every day life things like markets, banks etc.., The one thing that I love about my kids and their implants is that I can talk to them on the phone. When they are not at home like this summer where they were away for a week, I could talk to them on the phone and I knew how they were really feeling and yes I know I could have talked them through relay but for me I like hearing their voices.

We are all humans and we are all born with different personalities, interests, and backgrounds whether deaf or hearing. That is what I would never understand...that the use of ASL would completely isolate us from the hearing society???
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I do not think that ASL isolates you, I just think for us and our family, my children being able to communicate in oral language and being to hear almost everything is a plus for my children. But Shel I understand you are happy the way you are and I think that is what is important you are happy just as my kids are. We are all different.
 
Maria said:
Well, you know what ? I am not goin' to argue with you. You figure it all out on your own. Make sure that you don't make a mistake in the near future. Make sure that you read the link I gave Jackie in my previous post.
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Maria you need to make sure you have accurate information. Take the time to speak to parents of CI kids and adult CI Users and find out about them.
 
Cheri said:
as soon as the child is in it's toddler years, Don't you think a child should know it's own world too?



I'm not talking about moving to another town, but down the road in life, they might come in contact with the deaf community, my question is are you going to be prepare? Will you take your deaf child to Deaf Expos?

Cheri I am not sure about Cloggy but let me tell you about my 2 CI kids, I do take them to Deaf Expo, my daughter was on a Deaf cheerleading squad. My daughter went to a prom with a Deaf young man that did not use his voice. My son's best friend only signs and comes from a Deaf family. Usually once a month I take my kids to local coffee place that has a Deaf event. During summer many many days I have Deaf kids swimming and spending the night at my home. Is this enough for you. My kids still have their implants still communicate mostly in oral language. What is your point.


Doesn't have to be everybody, It is important to understand the full nature of your child, You as a parent should give your child many options as possible that including signs as well. In my view it is vital for parents to learn sign as another form of communication.
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Cheri are you proposal to tell me how to raise my oral deaf children. Oral deaf kids can have just has much pride in themselves as ASL users. My daughter made a T-shirt on it says I am deaf and proud and I can hear and speak to you.
 
jillio said:
I don't think dd disagrees with any parent getting what their child needs. What dd disagrees with, and what so many of the posters disagree with is the parent who provides for their childe's needs based on what the parent needs fromthe child and not what the child needs from the parent. Piorities are reversed.
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Jillo I can see your point. I have seen parents like that. I though think I am not like that but I am seen though extreme oralists.
 
jillio said:
Agree with you. And that has nothing to do with CI. It is all about attitude. Before CI came along, there were parents who put HAs on their children and isolated them from the deaf world and sign. HA, CI....doesn't matter.

And I think one thing that people seem to ignore hee.....there is a lot going on developmentally for a child when they are a baby and young child besides language acquisition. When you have to spend so much time and energy on drilling spoken language into that child, and teaching them to "hear", those other developmental needs to not get addressed, and that child ends up with delays other than just language. Is having a child that speaks so well that they can pass as hearing so important that you are justified in neglecting their other developmental needs?
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In my case with my children and students I make sure to focus on all areas, I do though put a bit more effort into language but the way I do is to included when I am teaching other areas. When my daughter was 5 I pulled her out of a very good oral school because that was all there focus was oral language so I switched her to more academic school.
 
jag said:
Yes I have looked at it. I KNEW the risks when I was wheeled into the surgery. Everything is life has risks, either that or you hide in your home cowering because something might not go right.

I was only 32 when my daughter with ds was concieved. I was not in the age catagory that was concidered to be high risk for a child with ds. But anytime one gets pregnant one risks having a child with some type of significant delays or some type of noticiable error (like ds or deafness) in the genetic code. I say significant because in a visit with the genitisist when my third child was around 9 yrs old we learned that everyone born into this world has around 8 errors in the genetic coding that is in every cell in their body. Should we all hide and not risk having children because something might go wrong? Because of my hearing loss being hereditary all my kids have the risk of hearing loss, should I have not risked having children? Because they have a sister with ds should my other girls not risk having a child with ds?

We could go on and on about the risks associated with surgery or even just the risks of giving birth, therer are risks in labor and delivery some that even include having to perform surgery. I didn't have to take that risk, but it was a good choice. Life is a gift which includes many many risks.
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GREAT POST, Really hit the mark, I actually almost lost my life and my daughter when she was born. Everything in life is a risk.
 
kalboy said:
Psychologist? Attorney? Wow. That's a bit of overkill isn't it? I couldn't speak that well and I had interpreters through out middle and high school. Not once my hearing classmates made fun of me nor any other deaf kids in my school. My teachers said nothing but good things on my IEP.

Sometimes its better to stand out and be different than to struggle and fit in.
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The reason we have an attorney is not for this issue it is because we have a pending due process case against the school district. We have won a cerdit for real time captioning and the school is appealing but it looks like the case is going to settle soon.
 
shel90 said:
I agree...I wish I had that all my life...be proud of being different instead of struggling all the time to try to fit in with hearing kids when I am not hearing.
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I tried to install in my children the need to be proud of themselves. I have told them that we are different in one way or another. I have also told them that people that might fun of them are usually very insecure of themselves. I see my daughter becoming more and more proud of herself.
 
jillio said:
I am sorry that your son had to go through this situation, and this is the age when mainstreaming presents the biggest problems socially for deaf kids. There are a number of reasons for this, and I don't have the space to gothrough all of that here. I do want to caution you, however, on bringing in a psychologist to address a group of teen-agers in that way. To address the entire class is to make the difference between your son and the rest of his classmates even more obvious. If there are those in the class that are prone to the kind of behavior that you spoke of, then making it even more obvious will jsut add fuel to the fire. Perhaps it would be better if the students who are quilty met with the counselor or psychologist one on one. I firmly believe in educating those who are misinformed regarding deafness, but the teen age years are very tricky times in dealing with issues such as this because of the developmental stages that a teen ager is going through.

When my son was in k-4 he was mainstreamed. At the beginning of every school year, I went in and addressed the class, passed his FM system around, told them how to get his attention, etc. It worked well. But these were also young children, and the younger the child, the more accepting they are of any kind of difference. They tend to see similarities at that age, not difference.

Of course, this is your child and your decision. I'm just trying to give you some benefit of my particular area of expertise.
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I did the same thing you did go in every year and talk about it. Thank you for your advice, I will think about it. Honestly we have annual IEPs set up and really not sure what to do about this situation, maybe by the time the IEP comes I will have a better idea, but thank you I do see where there might be some problems.
 
shel90 said:
Good advice, Jillo!

I agree about the age differences having an impact on the attitudes. During my elementary school years, I really didnt feel that much different due to socializing thru play but as I entered 5th grade, it was when the serious problems started. Not only with socially but in classes too when the curriculm got much more complex and missing out on critical key information.

My middle school years were just PURE hell and I would never repeat them again if someone offered me a million dollars. It is not worth the money cuz my self-esteem about myself and outlook on my life was completely destroyed during those years. I cant ever repeat those years again. I would probably just shoot myself or demand to be transferred to a deaf school.
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Shel, academically my son is not having any issues. His self esteem in the academic area is very strong. Honestly my son could really care less what other people think, he knows he is smart and he knows he is smarter then most kids.
 
I'm curious Jackiesolorzano, does your 2 CI kids know any signs at all?...if not what happens if they approach with other deaf children? how are they going to communicate with other deaf children like themselves?....Have you considered this?...Why can't we give them both languages and modes of communication? What's wrong with that? Why only oral?...I've always say "let the children be themselves and identify themselves for who they are!!"...
 
Angel said:
I'm curious Jackiesolorzano, does your 2 CI kids know any signs at all?...if not what happens if they approached with other deaf children? how are they going to communicate with other deaf children like themselves?....Have you considered this?...Why can't we give them both languages and modes of communication? What's wrong with that? Why only orally?...Let the children be themselves and identify themselves for who they are!!...
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Angel my kids were raised with only oral language thorughout elementary school. Once they had a solid foundation in oral language I did expose them to sign language. This happen in middle school. My daughter is quite fluent in sign language but more on a social level. My son was also exposed to sign language, his skills are much weaker but he thinks he has great skills. Both of my children have many friends that just sign. My daughter actually went to her first prom with a young man that only signs. She has this group of friends that she sees a lot and most only sign. My son's closest friend is from a Deaf family. My signing is not great but I can communicate with my children's friends.
I wanted them to be raise orally because I knew they would be able to learn sign language easily in their teen years.
Now if they choose to not use their voice this would be OK with me and my husband.
 
jackiesolorzano said:
Angel my kids were raised with only oral language thorughout elementary school. Once they had a solid foundation in oral language I did expose them to sign language. This happen in middle school. My daughter is quite fluent in sign language but more on a social level. My son was also exposed to sign language, his skills are much weaker but he thinks he has great skills. Both of my children have many friends that just sign. My daughter actually went to her first prom with a young man that only signs. She has this group of friends that she sees a lot and most only sign. My son's closest friend is from a Deaf family. My signing is not great but I can communicate with my children's friends.
I wanted them to be raise orally because I knew they would be able to learn sign language easily in their teen years.
Now if they choose to not use their voice this would be OK with me and my husband.
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That's great, I was raise orally too and attend mainstreaming, and didn't learn sign language until later on, my parents wanted me to speak and use my voice more often, I had no problem with that because I wanted to make my parents proud since my parents didn't know how to raise a deaf child, and didn't know about the school for the deaf or sign language etc,...

I'm glad your two children are doing great, and very proud to know they both exposed to sign language...It looks like you know exactly what you're doing...:)
 
Cheri said:
A: as soon as the child is in it's toddler years, Don't you think a child should know it's own world too?

B: I'm not talking about moving to another town, but down the road in life, they might come in contact with the deaf community, my question is are you going to be prepare? Will you take your deaf child to Deaf Expos?

C: Doesn't have to be everybody, It is important to understand the full nature of your child, You as a parent should give your child many options as possible that including signs as well. In my view it is vital for parents to learn sign as another form of communication.
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A: That's the answer to "when do you start".... but how long before a decision can be made to go for CI ??

B: What deaf expo's ?? How about letting my child meet other children with CI...???

C: No, I don't have to include sign. THAT's the whole point. She can speak, and probably lipreads very well. Why would she also need sign?
Learning Italian or Spanish would be more beneficial than sign.
 
jillio said:
From cloggy: should the parent move to another town to be closer to the Deaf community?

Answer: It is certainly a possibility. I did. In fact, I moved 3 states to provide my son with a Deaf school that would address his needs, and the large Deaf community that surrounds it. I personally felt that my son's needs took precedence over everything else in my life, and if that meant selling my home, moving, and finding a new job, then that's what I did.
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Sounds all very noble etc. However, sounds to me that you dragged your child away from the friends and family that you allready had.
That is also a choice. Taking your child away from all the people that would like to meet him, and learning a language that these people will not understand is the result of it (or - can be..)

We made the choice for Lotte that she would grow up between our friends and family, and for her to be able to hear, and with that learn the language of her family, friends, and the language of all other people around her...
That's also a possibility..

Both of us feel we made the right choice. Both of our children are happy and well-adjusted... in their own worlds..
 
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