Good news? (Abortions)

Um, NOT ALL prolifers are like that. I visited some pages that I love this pages mostly. It's a such gold information, in the note, some pro-lifers are non-traditional prolifers but that's not make them less pro-life being.

take a look here
seamless-garment.org home page
Consistent Life - Home Page

Standing on my opinion of miscarriges.
If I have a miscarriage, then I lost a baby (not a parasite that what I believe in). I personally don't like it when stupid people went in an "ooh, i'm sorry but you dont REALLY lost your baby. Your baby is not really human, exist, etc. blah blah" comment and a such rudeness. =/

Standing on my opinion of conception...
Sperm need to be alive until they meet an egg and to create a baby. Personally, I don't think it's really bad idea to kill sperm and egg because, obviously, BCs are suppose to prevent the creating baby.

What is unborn baby derseves (sp)? NOTHING.
I'm a bit of surprise that some of ADers seemingly don't want unborn children to be defended against abortions, as if pro-choicers not allow pro-lifers to speak for those unborn babies... :(

Fine... Similary, these quotes also show how with time and knowledge, the minds of people change.

"An Indian is not a person within the meaning of the constitution" George CanfieldAmerican Law Review, 1881.

"In the eyes of the law...the slave is not a person" - Virginia Supreme Court decision, 1858.

"The statutory word 'person' did not in these circumstances include women" -British Voting Rights case, 1909.

"The Reichsgericht itself refused to recognize Jews...as 'person' in the legal sense." German Supreme Court decision, 1936.

"The Law of Canada does not recognize the unborn child as a legal person posessing rights." Canadian Supreme Court. Winnipeg Child and Family Services Case, 1997.

Sometimes the most important lessons take the longest to learn. As we grow as a society, we often correct our previous mistakes, imo.

"In Germany, the Nazis first came for the communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then the came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak for me." -- Reverend Martin Niemoeller"
 
fredfam1 said:
Only if you believe there is no God.
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I believe in God with every bit of my heart. I -hope- with equal amounts of faith that He loves us regardless of the choices we find ourselves forced to make. No matter what perspective you praise God from, I would hope you know Him as loving and forgiving.

Humans aren't perfect- we are forced to make horrible and unethical and uncomfortable choices all too often, and perhaps we make the wrong ones all too often. That doesn't mean the world is Godless, or that we're not believers. We're just imperfect!
 
Think how many potential lives are thrown away in used condoms after recreational sex.
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*starts to sing*(Monty Python) Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great. if sperm is wasted then God gets quite irate(/Monty Python)
 
Byrdie714 said:
How can I not like children when I had a child myself?
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From the level of child abuse evident in the world today, I'd say there are a lot of parents don't like them. Being able to procreate doesn't necessarily equip an individual with parenting skills or an immediate ability to empathize with children.
 
Aleser said:
I believe in God with every bit of my heart. I -hope- with equal amounts of faith that He loves us regardless of the choices we find ourselves forced to make. No matter what perspective you praise God from, I would hope you know Him as loving and forgiving.

Humans aren't perfect- we are forced to make horrible and unethical and uncomfortable choices all too often, and perhaps we make the wrong ones all too often. That doesn't mean the world is Godless, or that we're not believers. We're just imperfect!
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:applause: Well said!
 
Aleser said:
I believe in God with every bit of my heart. I -hope- with equal amounts of faith that He loves us regardless of the choices we find ourselves forced to make. No matter what perspective you praise God from, I would hope you know Him as loving and forgiving.

Humans aren't perfect- we are forced to make horrible and unethical and uncomfortable choices all too often, and perhaps we make the wrong ones all too often. That doesn't mean the world is Godless, or that we're not believers. We're just imperfect!
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Absolutly! I have the impression that you think I may be condeming
people who have abortions. I do not mean to give that impression.
I only want our culture to change its position and protect the defenseless.
If a woman is taught that it is only a clump of cells, she does not know
she has participated in stopping a beating heart. (remember most abortions
occur at or around week 12) God does forgive, and wants to forgive. If
there is no awareness of sin then for that person it is not a sin. There are
still consequences. There is a higher risk of many types of illnesses, later in life, due to unnaturally interrupted pregnancies. Many people will say that a pregnancy can be dangerous. Yes it can. But that does not justify surgical or chemical intervention unless the physical life of the woman is in jeopardy. It is leagle. But so was slavery. And many other horrible things. And I for one do not want to face my Creator and have to say that I did nothing to try and save these babies. And provide support and comfort and help to those
women who choose to give life. I am not here to judge any human. It is
the system I judge.
 
jillio said:
From the level of child abuse evident in the world today, I'd say there are a lot of parents don't like them. Being able to procreate doesn't necessarily equip an individual with parenting skills or an immediate ability to empathize with children.
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Actually I loved my child, she was the 'apple of my eye'.

You know the old saying, " My child is better than your child." :giggle:
 
fredfam1 said:
Absolutly! I have the impression that you think I may be condeming people who have abortions. I do not mean to give that impression.
I only want our culture to change its position and protect the defenseless. If a woman is taught that it is only a clump of cells, she does not know she has participated in stopping a beating heart. (remember most abortions occur at or around week 12) God does forgive, and wants to forgive. If there is no awareness of sin then for that person it is not a sin. There are still consequences. There is a higher risk of many types of illnesses, later in life, due to unnaturally interrupted pregnancies. Many people will say that a pregnancy can be dangerous. Yes it can. But that does not justify surgical or chemical intervention unless the physical life of the woman is in jeopardy. It is leagle. But so was slavery. And many other horrible things. And I for one do not want to face my Creator and have to say that I did nothing to try and save these babies. And provide support and comfort and help to those women who choose to give life. I am not here to judge any human. It is the system I judge.
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Exactly my sentiments. I also do not mean to condemn people, but to let people realize what their actions may result in severe consequences in the future or afterlife. Often, my words get twisted for political reasons. To some people, everything is politics rather than about the morality surrounding the choices we make everyday.
 
Aleser said:
...
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...
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I seriously hope that's your idea of a VERY sick joke.
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I was talking about aborting the very seriously disabled ones, the vegetable ones, before they're even born. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
 
Reba said:
Sadly, it's not a joke. :(

Taking Life: Humans, by Peter Singer
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I was talking about aborting the vegetable kids before they're born, not euthanasia. Aborting them would free up resources for more healthy kids who will become productive members of our community. Having less or no healthy kids because of carrying vegetable kids to term when they could've been aborted is taking away valuable potential members of our communities by making them not exist.
 
fredfam1 said:
I have had two miscarriages at 4 months each. I fully expect to meet
those created beings in the next life. But even if one does not believe
in the here after, how does that even fit into this discussion? With out
God that would be considered to be a natural selection process, done
without mans help.(unlike abortion which is different from miscarriage) Creatures die all the time naturally. Most people I
hear say, "Oh well, it was probably defective and for the best."

Human life only has "potential" before the egg and sperm combine.
After that union the life is now Human, no mater how small.

And keeping a disabled kid tells the other kids we value ALL life.

Aborting a defective one tells other kids, "Its a good thing you
were born perfect or this could be you!" It could also say, "Don't
screw up or you could be next."
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What makes us human are our minds because that is what makes us able to think, learn and develop personalities and relationships. The structures required to have a mind are not there at the early parts of development. The heart starts beating at about 3 weeks and the EEG activity had been measured as early as 12 weeks, so there is a period with heartbeats and no known brain functioning. And having a signal doesn't mean it's yet patterned into a mind like the nerves outside the brain having signals, but not minds. So just having an heartbeat doesn't make you have a personality. It's a potential human that requires further development before becoming a fully developed human.

What about those that develop a beating heart and no head and brains? Those can't stay alive once they are detached from the mother, so why waste resources continuing their growth? What about ectopic pregnancies?

What of the ones that would develop into vegetable people with no functioning mind? I was thinking of vegetable people who can never get out of bed, eat by themselves, talk or think, not more minor things like deafness. I wasn't talking about healthy non-vegetable people getting screwed up after birth. Carrying vegetable ones to term instead of aborting them sucks up resources that could be used for more healthy people. It could cause fewer non-vegetable people to be born and therefore takes away from the community. It is telling potential non-vegetable people that they are not existing because people are too busy taking care of vegetable people who could've been aborted to allow more non-vegetable people to be born. Vegetable people can't grow up and decide if and how to contribute to the human community, so why carry them to term? Why value vegetable embryos and fetuses more than non-vegetable people you could've had, if you aborted the vegetable people, plus the contributions those potential non-vegetable people could've made if they were permitted to exist? Letting a vegetable one be born also means taking away medical resources and space away from already living people.
 
RedFox said:
I was talking about aborting the vegetable kids before they're born, not euthanasia. Aborting them would free up resources for more healthy kids who will become productive members of our community. Having less or no healthy kids because of carrying vegetable kids to term when they could've been aborted is taking away valuable potential members of our communities by making them not exist.
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It's still eugenics, no matter how you put it.
 
Banjo said:
Killing is killing. Can't get any simpler than that.
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Yeah, it does the same with killing animal for meat, killing a human for capital punishment (death penatly), killing a human at war as well.

I prefer to call myself a pro-choice because I eat meat from animal killing, support women's abortion choice for medical reasons and against abort for no reasons, against death penalty and war. Am I real pro life? I don't think so.

If anyone who call themselves pro-lifer which mean is true vegetarians/vegan who against animal killings for meat, sacrifice of mother's life to save the life of her baby instead of abort to save her risk life, against death penalty & war then is real pro-lifer. IMO

I can see from many hypocrisy posts here who claim themselves is pro lifer for against abortion and then for abortion to save mother's risk life. *scratch my head*. They should remember that it's not just abortion but anything why we are for pro-life or pro-choice.
 
PuyoPiyo said:
Well, we, the Men, were born by the females. Plus, we, the Men, are the one who gave the women the sperm cause them pregnanted.

That's why I rather to have BOTH couple, boyfriend/husband and girlfriend/wife discuss about abortion TOGETHER.
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Yes, I second that. I personally would for it but I has to respect woman's decision because it's her body.



But... Rape... well, that's different story...
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That's an exactly why I respect women's choice.
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Kalista said:
good point Banjo !! Alot of mothers have bunches different fathers, collect food stamps and welfare, it will deduct alot of money from our taxes in USA.

Pro and con about abortion issues !
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Yes I has to agree with you on this... and also pro/cons about abortion issues...
 
~*Kaelei*~ said:
I've been against Abortion ever since I learned what it causes. Look at me, I'm 21 and I have a two year old son who's amazing and I love him with all my heart. He's the best thing ever happened to me.

I'm only for Abortion for two things:

~ Been Raped (Who would want a child that has been concevied by rape? I know I wouldn't be able to stand looking at the child and remember being raped)

~ Child putting mother's health at risk

That's all I'm for it, but for other reasons: You need to take responsbilty for it. You can either put it up for adoption which there are tons of people out there that wants a child or you can just keep the child that is if you can afford it and love the child.
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Yes I second that.

See bold about rape issues. I has to agree with you on this but I noticed that each woman is different.

I posted the story about the example over my hubby's Grandma at other thread who was being raped by different soliders/Nazi while she was a cooker and already have a 17 years old son whom her husband was killed by WWII. She fall unwanted pregnant and want to abort it... Unfortunlately no, the abortion law was forbidden at that time. She was force to carry an unwanted fetus until 9 months. After birth to son, (that son is happen to my hubby's father). It got Grandma bad nightmare when she look at my hubby's Dad. His childhood was very unhappy one.

Another side, some women I know well who keep rapist child and decide to raise him/her with her love and accept what she/he is without see in them as rapist child.

Like what I say before that each woman has different feeling/emotion when they decide to keep rapist child or not. That's why I respect their choice/decision.
 
Babyblue said:
Some say life doesn't begin until the first breath is taken.

Now I am pro-choice. But I never have consider or never will consider an abortion but if it puts my health at risk I will. I have my other children that already been living life to think about. If a child becomes pregnant then it should be her choice along with help of a psychiatrist. If a person have been raped it should be her choice. If a person was stupid enough to have an unplanned pregnancy' she SHOULD consider adoption for that child, but still it is her choice. Too many people ending up on welfare with unplanned pregnancy. Costing the tax payers millions.

I do feel that women that has multiple abortions abuses it, and should be ashame of themselves and be fixed so they can't get pregnant.
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*nodding agreement*
 
Reba said:
1. Even if the girl gave birth to a live baby, that doesn't mean the baby would be raised in the birth family. She could give it up for adoption.
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Yes I personally would agree with you on this but I has to leave my child's choice without force her to give up for an adoption or abortion. She will have my support and advice/recommendation.


2. If the girl's physical life was in danger, then an abortion could be allowed for medical reasons.
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This is a pro-choice, that's why I am pro-choice. If a mother who refuses to abort to save her life then is a real pro-life... (I personally disagree with it and want to save mother's risk life.)

3. How would the girl feel after an abortion that she was coerced into? How would she feel about the people who forced her into an abortion?
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I would say opposite as you...

How would she feel about the people who forced her to not abort and accussed her as murder, evil, selfish, etc for decide to abort her child instead of carry to full term and then give up for an adoption or want to keep her child?

That's why I respect and support my child's choice. Of course I would sit and talk with her what I feeling and what I thought... recommendation, tips, etc. without force her...

4. How often does this kind of circumstance actually happen? How many 10-year-old girls become pregnant by incest? I'm asking because I really don't know. Does anyone here have real numbers to prove this happens often? You say this happens "all too often" so I'm curious how you know the veracity of that.

Just some more to think about.
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No matter how many ... numbers... either one or more of million children but this is so... What I am doing to help my child or read the magazine about children, not think how many numbers to compare with their condition. All what I think is many sex abusers/assault without count how many ...
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