Good news? (Abortions)

What if someone raped me and got preggy.. I rather let it natural preggy til born a baby then give a baby for adoption or keep a baby. Why not ? than getting an stupid abortion.

Other thing, For Adoption parents have been waiting too. They cant have children themselves. So give to them! ! ! Instead of ABORTION!:rl:

Some of you guys dont understand. They (babies) are very important! So beautiful! And They need us mothers! Dont throw them away for waste! They are human as us!

That is simple!

:afro:

M-
 
How do you feel about cancer and other parasites? Cancerous cells divide and drain the body of resources and life. Shall cancer be fought? Shall parasites be eliminated?

Show me any parasite, or cancer that has the ability to grow into
a full sized human, created from two individual humans, disabled or not.

I kill plants every day I drive a car or live in a home thats
been manufactured by using any materials that used fossil
fuels. I kill living things all the time, my body destroys bacteria
every second. Purposely! So does yours. Yet none of the things
I've killed can grow to be a full sized human if left alone to full
fill its destiny. I believe once conception has begun we must
now consider the choices of three people, the mom, the dad,
and the baby. If the baby can not yet make a choice in that
regard, (just like a 6 month old could not choose, or a 1 year
old could not choose) then we must step in and choose life for
it because the only other choice is death and death would prevent
that indivdual from choosing or not choosing life later on.
Mom can give up the baby or keep the baby, dad too, but
abortions prevent the other person from choosing. I choose
life for humans, and I choose the defenseless life to be protected.
 
Agreed. If we allow people to make these decisions, there will always be the
tendency to push things further and further. If we say a "vegtable" just takes
up resources, we are making a judgment call. And people will always say, "But
what about....." and then another person who may be just a little bit more
than a "vegtable" will be killed. Here is an interesting article in that reguard.

Are there any vegetables that do something besides taking up resources? What about the embryos and fetuses with no heads? Why waste time and resources carrying one to term just to have it die due to having no head? It will die anyway so get it over with before it uses up too much resources. What about ectopic pregnancies? Those often do not survive and can be a danger to the mother's life. I know of only one case where a baby implanted into a layer of fat on the bowls and grew there, positioned so that they didn't realize it wasn't even in the womb until they did the CS. Most often, ectopic pregnancies are implants in one of the tubes and when the embryo gets too big, it can make the organ burst and bleed.


I wasn't talking about Downs people. They can do productive things and have good lives. I've known some from school. I was talking about vegetable people who are so disabled that they can never interact with anybody to do anything, communicate in any manner or even think. A baby born with no head could be considered the most extreme example of this.

There is always another story, another reason to allow us to stop
experiencing life events. If a society only tries to allow what "feels
good" and never allows its people to experience the sadness and
sometimes trauma that is often a part of life, then we will never
be "Fully Human" ourselves.

I'd think that finding out that the unborn baby is a vegetable and aborting it is sad and traumatic, so it's not like there would be no more sad things in life if vegetable embryos and fetuses were aborted.

Using up resources by not aborting the vegetables instead of using them to have non-vegetables can be thought of as reverse eugenics because that is telling people that you are going to have less or no non-vegetables because of the resource being used up by the vegetables that could've been aborted. It's sad that those people won't have the chance to exist because their would-be parents are too busy with a vegetable to even make them. :(

Something that is related are parasitic twins, conjoined twins where one won't be able to function if they were separated. There were instances of parasitic twins that were just heads attached to the other twin's head. Those can have eye and mouth movement, but would kill the other twin by sucking up nutrients and oxygen that they don't have the organs to get by themselves. So they cut off the parasitic twin to let the other one live.

There are also parasitic twins that do not have heads or hearts, so they suck up resources from the other twin by making its heart beat harder. To avoid overworking the regular twin, they cut the part of the cord connected to the parasitic twin to disconnect and kill it off.

There were also things called fetus-in-fetu where a fetus apparently gets enveloped inside its twin and ended up with only some tissue types developed. I saw them cut such things out of people on TV. :eek2: There are other words like dermoid cyst and teratoma where tumors are found in people that look like out-of-place tissues like skin and hair inside the body. Those words seem to be used for varying degrees of differentiation with the fetus-in-fetu being the kind that looks the most like a person. A paper abstract of an interesting case of something in between a fetus-in-fetu and a teratoma is here. It looked like a teratoma, but had a rudimentary beating heart.

If some people think that a beating heart is enough for personhood, then how about leaving those fetus-in-fetu inside people, letting them suck away resources from their hosts and make them appear to be pregnant and get laughed at?
 
Are there any vegetables that do something besides taking up resources? What about the embryos and fetuses with no heads? Why waste time and resources carrying one to term just to have it die due to having no head? It will die anyway so get it over with before it uses up too much resources. What about ectopic pregnancies? Those often do not survive and can be a danger to the mother's life. I know of only one case where a baby implanted into a layer of fat on the bowls and grew there, positioned so that they didn't realize it wasn't even in the womb until they did the CS. Most often, ectopic pregnancies are implants in one of the tubes and when the embryo gets too big, it can make the organ burst and bleed.



I wasn't talking about Downs people. They can do productive things and have good lives. I've known some from school. I was talking about vegetable people who are so disabled that they can never interact with anybody to do anything, communicate in any manner or even think. A baby born with no head could be considered the most extreme example of this.



I'd think that finding out that the unborn baby is a vegetable and aborting it is sad and traumatic, so it's not like there would be no more sad things in life if vegetable embryos and fetuses were aborted.

Using up resources by not aborting the vegetables instead of using them to have non-vegetables can be thought of as reverse eugenics because that is telling people that you are going to have less or no non-vegetables because of the resource being used up by the vegetables that could've been aborted. It's sad that those people won't have the chance to exist because their would-be parents are too busy with a vegetable to even make them. :(

Something that is related are parasitic twins, conjoined twins where one won't be able to function if they were separated. There were instances of parasitic twins that were just heads attached to the other twin's head. Those can have eye and mouth movement, but would kill the other twin by sucking up nutrients and oxygen that they don't have the organs to get by themselves. So they cut off the parasitic twin to let the other one live.

There are also parasitic twins that do not have heads or hearts, so they suck up resources from the other twin by making its heart beat harder. To avoid overworking the regular twin, they cut the part of the cord connected to the parasitic twin to disconnect and kill it off.

There were also things called fetus-in-fetu where a fetus apparently gets enveloped inside its twin and ended up with only some tissue types developed. I saw them cut such things out of people on TV. :eek2: There are other words like dermoid cyst and teratoma where tumors are found in people that look like out-of-place tissues like skin and hair inside the body. Those words seem to be used for varying degrees of differentiation with the fetus-in-fetu being the kind that looks the most like a person. A paper abstract of an interesting case of something in between a fetus-in-fetu and a teratoma is here. It looked like a teratoma, but had a rudimentary beating heart.

If some people think that a beating heart is enough for personhood, then how about leaving those fetus-in-fetu inside people, letting them suck away resources from their hosts and make them appear to be pregnant and get laughed at?

My husbands aunt is like this. Carries inside of her the partial skeletal
system of her twin. She is hunched backed, and in a lot of pain. She
enjoys her life though. She is glad she was not aborted. Babies that
have died inside another persons body are no longer alive. My Great-
Great-Great-Great Uncles were the famous Bunker Twins, siamese twins
joined at the midsection.

Bunker Twins Page

They had 23 children between them. haha
Sorry.. anyway when they were born, they were considered to be a
bad omen, some thought they were demons, but that poor resource
sucking mother wouldn't drown them. Hmmmm. Wonder how many
wonderful people in the US can trace their lineage back to these
men who were, "potential resource suckers". Chang and Eng were
their names. Just who gets to decide who and to what extent a
disability becomes unsustainable and worse yet unprofitable? The
ultimate crime becomes a drain on resources. I am a CNA. (certified
nurses asistant) I worked in a nursing home where I did end of
life care. I'm sure there are many who would think it was a waste
of resources for me to care for these terminally ill people. Who could
contribute nothing, who couldn't eat and could only drink with their
water thickened so they didn't choke. I held their hands, I combed
their hair, I turned them, changed them, and cried with their families.
And when Gods time came, I held their hand as they left this world
and some other being escorted them into the next. I gained far more
than they did. THAT was their contribution.
 
Can you honestly say that that is same as a baby growing in a mother's womb?

Seems to me that an embryo-come-foetus fits the bill of a parasite:

"an animal or plant that lives in or on a host (another animal or plant); the parasite obtains nourishment from the host without benefiting or killing the host"
 
Seems to me that an embryo-come-foetus fits the bill of a parasite:

"an animal or plant that lives in or on a host (another animal or plant); the parasite obtains nourishment from the host without benefiting or killing the host"

the different is a parasite was not started by the host. The "host" of the baby is the baby's mother. The baby was started in the mother's body with help of her partner while the parasite was started elsewhere and then become a parasite on the host. It is totally different and I have to say that you are reaching when you came to that opinion in trying to support your view.
 
Show me any parasite, or cancer that has the ability to grow into
a full sized human, created from two individual humans, disabled or not.

As I demonstrated http://www.alldeaf.com/current-events/48442-good-news-abortions-5.html#post901633 a pregnancy fits the bill of a parasite.

If the baby can not yet make a choice in that
regard, (just like a 6 month old could not choose, or a 1 year
old could not choose) then we must step in and choose life for
it because the only other choice is death and death would prevent
that indivdual from choosing or not choosing life later on.

I would imagine that you are vehemently against suicide because of your chosen religion. How could someone possibly chose to "self-abort" without the condemnation of you and others like you? Rhetorical question, really.

Anyways, if the foetus can live outside the host (on its own or with machines) it's too late for abortion. That's where I draw the invisible line.
 
Red Fox,
FYI, the percentage of kids with congential PVS (persistant vegetative state) is extremely rare. Most profoundly MR kids are basicly at infant level in terms of mentality. It's also very difficult to tell how severely a condition will effect someone. There are some kids with extreme profound CP who are PVS, but then again there are kids with syndromes who have PVS. A syndrome/brain difference doesn't effect a population uniformly. There are people with brain differneces in PVS, but there are also people walking around right as rain who have brain differences that would make nereologists ooooo and ahhhhh...........
 
Actually I loved my child, she was the 'apple of my eye'.

You know the old saying, " My child is better than your child." :giggle:

Don't doubt that for a minute. But, your question was howcould someone have a child and not love children. I answered that question from the general frame of reference in which it was asked.

And no child is better than my child!:giggle:
 
As I demonstrated http://www.alldeaf.com/current-events/48442-good-news-abortions-5.html#post901633 a pregnancy fits the bill of a parasite.



I would imagine that you are vehemently against suicide because of your chosen religion. How could someone possibly chose to "self-abort" without the condemnation of you and others like you? Rhetorical question, really.

Anyways, if the foetus can live outside the host (on its own or with machines) it's too late for abortion. That's where I draw the invisible line.


Suicide? Well if the suicide were to kill another person, like a mom sticks
her head inside a gas oven, turns on the gas and kills her self, plus any
children that were in the room with her then yes. I would be against that
suicide. There is nothing preventing a person from killing themself. I am
against physician assisted suicide. Suicide when the person kills only
themself, while shocking to those left behind, only leaves that person
to deal with their creator. How could I condem anyone who commits
suicide? They left this world already. I condem no one. I do defend the
defensless. Saying a thing is wrong and working to stop that thing, is not comdeming the person who is doing it. It is simply saying it is wrong.
 
I slowly think I understand what a woman feels... I meant, it's about rape issue.. Hmm, it's kinda of hard for me to understand her.

I actually feel so sorry and so bad for women and babies.. I can't imagine I have a 1/3 chance to be aborted by mom's desicion.. Well... my life or death depends on the fact that someone wants or doesn't want me...I have no intrinsic right to be, because of it's her body and her choice. we should not speak for ourselves nor anyone else will speak for us, neither. It's all about her choice, period.

Right?

:( I still can't stand children of rapists had been aborted for nothing... Again, it's a woman's desicion. :(
 
What if someone raped me and got preggy.. I rather let it natural preggy til born a baby then give a baby for adoption or keep a baby. Why not ? than getting an stupid abortion.

Other thing, For Adoption parents have been waiting too. They cant have children themselves. So give to them! ! ! Instead of ABORTION!:rl:

Some of you guys dont understand. They (babies) are very important! So beautiful! And They need us mothers! Dont throw them away for waste! They are human as us!

That is simple!

:afro:

M-

I understand your feeling, try visit the debate threads and there are explaination of why women have abortions: "anti-adoption" "prolife vs prochoice", and "what is prolife" and others. I know it's sad for babies like that. :(
 
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Don't doubt that for a minute. But, your question was howcould someone have a child and not love children. I answered that question from the general frame of reference in which it was asked.

And no child is better than my child!:giggle:

Well I think this is a statement we could all agree
with from our own perspectives.:fingersx:
 
Don't doubt that for a minute. But, your question was howcould someone have a child and not love children. I answered that question from the general frame of reference in which it was asked.

And no child is better than my child!:giggle:

:lol:
 
I've read about the Bunker twins before. They clearly look like they could do plenty of things like writing books and directing organizations if they wanted to and are no where close to being vegetables. I know someone from university who is deaf and deformed with his back leaning back at an angle, but he can still walk and go to classes. He's nowhere close to being a vegetable either.

Plenty of people in nursing homes have done something for the world and are loved by others they know, so we don't kill them off against their will.

Deafdyke, thank you for your information about PVS.:ty:

There is also the issue of women's ownership of their bodies. Pregnancy can be seen as a parasite-dom. The body belongs to the woman, so she should have say in how it is used. Making them carry babies, against their wills, with disorders that will kill them before they grow up beyond infancy or even get born is being controlling of the women. I don't want to make women mad about losing control over their own bodies. Who wants to walk around for 9 months with a headless baby inside?
 
I've read about the Bunker twins before. They clearly look like they could do plenty of things like writing books and directing organizations if they wanted to and are no where close to being vegetables. I know someone from university who is deaf and deformed with his back leaning back at an angle, but he can still walk and go to classes. He's nowhere close to being a vegetable either.

Plenty of people in nursing homes have done something for the world and are loved by others they know, so we don't kill them off against their will.

Deafdyke, thank you for your information about PVS.:ty:

There is also the issue of women's ownership of their bodies. Pregnancy can be seen as a parasite-dom. The body belongs to the woman, so she should have say in how it is used. Making them carry babies, against their wills, with disorders that will kill them before they grow up beyond infancy or even get born is being controlling of the women. I don't want to make women mad about losing control over their own bodies. Who wants to walk around for 9 months with a headless baby inside?

My point in mentioning them is that at their time in their culture it was
believed they should be killed. The mother and father chose to go
against what others believed was ok and legal. And they were correct.
But they could have been just as incorrect. Suppose one of the twins had been vegitative? His brother would have had an awfull life carrying him around as they could not at that time have been separated. Why burden him with
that vegetative state being attached to him? Because we simply can not be certain that no life exists simply because we are as yet unable to detect brain waves. It hasn't been that long ago that we had no method of measuring brain waves, nor did we even know they existed. Now they are used as a definiton of life in many cases. But life used to be defined by other much more objective data. Like were they breathing? But now people can stop breathing
on their own due to pysical tramau, be placed on an apparatus that breathes
for them until they heal and begin to breath on their own. But many years ago that wasn't even an option. You stopped breating, end of life, period.
I believe once conception occurs the rights of the preborn
must be considered as well. There is adoption, and many other methods to
allow this life to continue. There are people who are willing to adopt even
those who have a portion of their brain missing, and do end of life care for
them. But most abortions in this country are done for the sake of birth control. These "what if" scenarios are rare, and should not be used in my opinion to make these kinds of policies. I personally know two women who
both had prenatal genetic testing done and both had positive test results
that indicated their babies had genetic deformities. They decided to carry
to term and both babies were healthy. They could have chosen an abortion. What about the healthy babies who were aborted due to our own scientific ignorance and arrogance? We all think we know so much. And we have only
scratched the surface.
 
Suicide? Well if the suicide were to kill another person, like a mom sticks
her head inside a gas oven, turns on the gas and kills her self, plus any
children that were in the room with her then yes. I would be against that
suicide. There is nothing preventing a person from killing themself. I am
against physician assisted suicide. Suicide when the person kills only
themself, while shocking to those left behind, only leaves that person
to deal with their creator. How could I condem anyone who commits
suicide? They left this world already. I condem no one. I do defend the
defensless. Saying a thing is wrong and working to stop that thing, is not comdeming the person who is doing it. It is simply saying it is wrong.

In physician assisted suicide, the the patient dies by their own hand. One of the designations of PAS is that the patient must be able to take the combination of medications without physical assistance. Any alteration of this turns PAS into euthanasia. They are two very different concepts.

A mother who sticks her head in a gas oven, thus killing herself and the children in the room ceases to be just a suicide and becomes a murder suicide. Again, a very different concept.
 
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