Gitmo Closing

[SFShawn13]

I agree with the santa claus cat person.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I don't understand about you use USA as torture in world. :roll:

I did not create a thread but US ADer. If you complaint then say this to him, not me because it's him who create a thread to ask us for our opinion.

Go ahead and create your own thread.

Why should I create my own thread since you brought the subject over Russia and China up in first place? I offer you my friendly suggestion to create a new thread if we want to talk about torture in different countries.

I would not take posts personally when I were you because we have the right to express our POV on any situation... They also have the right to express their POV over German Nazi issues in different threads since 2004, too.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I agree with the santa claus cat person.

 

[SFShawn13]

lmao yeah, you.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

lmao yeah, you.

I forget about my avator until you pointed it out....



*blush* it's still Xmas.. I will re-new avator later...

 

[SFShawn13]

I forget about my avator until you pointed it out....

Lmfaaaaooo, I bet you were like "wtf???"

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Is there proof of torture at GITMO?

torture Guantanamo Bay - Google Bilder

If there is, why not just stop the torture there?

Because Bush/Cheney authorized torture but good thing is Obama is new President and banned torture and closed horrible camp.

Why is it necessary to move the prisoners?

Because Guantanamo is an embarrassment to Americans who believes in the legal and fair trial.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

My opinion is that we need to close it down because there were too many tortures on some innocent people with many different kind of experiments such as blast sounds, loud musics, beats, suffer from cold and hot weather in the prison.

It is too far embarrassment for all of us that our soldiers did it on purpose, and it makes other countries look at us as a bad country. I know other countries does the same thing - I don't want to make argument here.

I don't like the idea having them into our country, and we need to stop paying enormous amount of our taxes. Our priority focus on our health issues and jobs for now. Then, we should start invest in our alternative energy to eliminate the foreign oils.

See *thick bond* - No, it's not "some" but too many or a lot....

I would highly recommend you to read Turkish-German Murat Kurnaz's book "Five Years of My Life: An Innocent Man in Guantanamo"

Five Years of My Life, Murat Kurnaz, Book - Barnes & Noble

Five Years of My Life: An Innocent Man in Guantanamo by Murat Kurnaz (part 1) | Books | guardian.co.uk

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Five-Years-My-Life-Guantanamo/dp/0230603742]Amazon.com: Five Years of My Life: An Innocent Man in Guantanamo: Murat Kurnaz: Books[/ame]



I bought a book last December and read the whole from morning to night... It's horrible...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Yep WAY long ago when Bush and Chiney were in the office, we already knew about it and yet, they didnt do a thing and Chiney said he had no idea what was going on there...I can smell bullshit. :roll:

Yes, Cheney and Bush know what they doing to muslims in camp. Bush and Cheney said that waterboarding is OK and view it as not torture at FEW weeks ago and then warned Obama after learn about Obama's plan for close the Guantanamo Bay...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

In my opinion, they should stay in GITMO. The facilities are already there, and they can be kept separate from our communities.

Is it good idea to put innocent people in that torture camp without legal trial?

Do you support those idea?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Accusations, not proof.

Even if abuses happened, how would a change in geography prevent abuses?

Reba's post

What exactly did you see, who shot them, when were they shot, and who verified them?

Are you saying that the pictures of torture muslims are false or what? The former Gitmo's experiences are also false as well?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Secondly--what prisoner doesn't complain about inadequate or inhumane facilities? It comes with the territory.

Link? I never heard that they don't complaint... From read former German-Turkish Guantanamo detainee Murat Kurnaz's book "Five Years of My Life: An Innocent Man in Guantanamo". Oh yes, they SUFFERED sooo pain... and innocent... Murat met many detainees including minor datainees as well... They suffered because they want to know how their family doing, need help, etc.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I think that most prisoners at GITMO should be freed because I remember on CBS news, a reporter interviewed a young Afghan who was 14 years old was sent to GITMO for about five years. The military made a mistake because they were told what to do by the government without a question. He is freed and went back to his hometown in Afghanistan.

Is that what you talking about?

http://www.alldeaf.com/war-political-news/60973-judge-orders-release-young-gitmo-detainee.html

A small bad group of criminals should be stayed in a Federal prison for a very long time.

Yes I would agree if there're 100% proof, not doubt or suspect.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Recently I read one of the news articles that stated about 60 former detainees have re-joined Al-Qaeda and other jihad groups following their release from Gitmo.

re-joined? Seriously? Why do US Government let them go when they know that 60 former detainees are extremely dangerous people? If they were truly dangerous threat when they were being captured, then they would NEVER released from US Government, don't they? They would stay in prison for a long time or death penalty...


If they weren't terrorists before US Government wrongfully detained and tortured them for long years, then it might turn them into terrorists?

OR

If they are guilty of involved in terrorism but why let them go instead of imprison for a long time or death penalty?

Sorry I dont buy that media because it make no sense to me.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

If we move them to other facilities, it will cost even more, on top of the money that we've spent in building the facilities at GITMO.

The GITMO prisoners can't just be thrown into any facility; they will need to build new wings just for them. That's what happened at our brig in Charleston. They blocked off a whole wing just for a couple of prisoners. What a waste.

What a waste? but the worst is check the article...

Guantanamo inmates say they were 'sold'
Warlords, others 'trumped up charges' for U.S. cash rewards

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico - They fed them well. The Pakistani tribesmen slaughtered a sheep in honor of their guests, Arabs and Chinese Muslims famished from fleeing U.S. bombing in the Afghan mountains. But their hosts had ulterior motives: to sell them to the Americans, said the men who are now prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.

Bounties ranged from $3,000 to $25,000, the detainees testified before military tribunals, according to transcripts the U.S. government gave The Associated Press to comply with a Freedom of Information lawsuit.

A former CIA intelligence officer who helped lead the search for Osama bin Laden told AP the accounts sounded legitimate because U.S. allies regularly got money to help catch Taliban and al-Qaida fighters. Gary Schroen said he took a suitcase of $3 million in cash into Afghanistan himself to help supply and win over warlords to fight for U.S. Special Forces.

Bundles of cash

“It wouldn’t surprise me if we paid rewards,” said Schroen, who retired after 32 years in the CIA soon after the fall of Kabul in late 2001. He recently published the book “First In: An Insider’s Account of How the CIA Spearheaded the War on Terror in Afghanistan.”

Schroen said Afghan warlords like Gen. Rashid Dostum were among those who received bundles of notes. “It may be that we were giving rewards to people like Dostum because his guys were capturing a lot of Taliban and al-Qaida,” he said.

Pakistan has handed hundreds of suspects to the Americans, but Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed told the AP, “No one has taken any money.”

The U.S. departments of Defense, Justice and State and the Central Intelligence Agency also said they were unaware of bounty payments being made for random prisoners.

The U.S. Rewards for Justice program pays only for information that leads to the capture of suspected terrorists identified by name, said Steve Pike, a State Department spokesman. Some $57 million has been paid under the program, according to its Web site.

It offers rewards up to $25 million for information leading to the capture of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Trumped-up evidence?

But a wide variety of detainees at the U.S. lockup at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, alleged they were sold into capture. Their names and other identifying information were blacked out in the transcripts from the tribunals, which were held to determine whether prisoners were correctly classified as enemy combatants.

One detainee who said he was an Afghan refugee in Pakistan accused the country’s intelligence service of trumping up evidence against him to get bounty money from the U.S.

“When I was in jail, they said I needed to pay them money and if I didn’t pay them, they’d make up wrong accusations about me and sell me to the Americans and I’d definitely go to Cuba,” he told the tribunal. “After that I was held for two months and 20 days in their detention, so they could make wrong accusations about me and my (censored), so they could sell us to you.”

Another prisoner said he was on his way to Germany in 2001 when he was captured and sold for “a briefcase full of money” then flown to Afghanistan before being sent to Guantanamo.

Sold like a fish

“It’s obvious. They knew Americans were looking for Arabs, so they captured Arabs and sold them — just like someone catches a fish and sells it,” he said. The detainee said he was seized by “mafia” operatives somewhere in Europe and sold to Americans because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time — an Arab in a foreign country.

A detainee who said he was a Saudi businessman claimed, “The Pakistani police sold me for money to the Americans.”

“This was part of a roundup of all foreigners and Arabs in that area,” of Pakistan near the Afghan border, he said, telling the tribunal he went to Pakistan in November 2001 to help Afghan refugees.

The military-appointed representative for one detainee — who said he was a Taliban fighter — said the prisoner told him he and his fellow fighters “were tricked into surrendering to Rashid Dostum’s forces. Their agreement was that they would give up their arms and return home. But Dostum’s forces sold them for money to the U.S.”

Several detainees who appeared to be ethnic Chinese Muslims — known as Uighurs — described being betrayed by Pakistani tribesmen along with about 100 Arabs.

Chinese Uighurs netted

They said they went to Afghanistan for military training to fight for independence from China. When U.S. warplanes started bombing near their camp, they fled into the mountains near Tora Bora and hid for weeks, starving.

One detainee said they finally followed a group of Arabs, apparently fighters, being guided by an Afghan to the Pakistani border.

“We crossed into Pakistan and there were tribal people there, and they took us to their houses and they killed a sheep and cooked the meat and we ate,” he said.

That night, they were taken to a mosque, where about 100 Arabs also sheltered. After being fed bread and tea, they were told to leave in groups of 10, taken to a truck, and driven to a Pakistani prison. From there, they were handed to Americans and flown to Guantanamo.

“When we went to Pakistan the local people treated us like brothers and gave us good food and meat,” said another detainee. But soon, he said, they were in prison in Pakistan where “we heard they sold us to the Pakistani authorities for $5,000 per person.”

'The big prize'

There have been reports of Arabs being sold to the Americans after the U.S.-led offensive in Afghanistan, but the testimonies offer the most detail from prisoners themselves.

In March 2002, the AP reported that Afghan intelligence offered rewards for the capture of al-Qaida fighters — the day after a five-hour meeting with U.S. Special Forces. Intelligence officers refused to say if the two events were linked and if the United States was paying the offered reward of 150 million Afghanis, then equivalent to $4,000 a head.

That day, leaflets and loudspeaker announcements promised “the big prize” to those who turned in al-Qaida fighters.

Said one leaflet: “You can receive millions of dollars. ... This is enough to take care of your family, your village, your tribe for the rest of your life — pay for livestock and doctors and school books and housing for all your people.”

Helicopters broadcast similar announcements over the Afghan mountains, enticing people to “Hand over the Arabs and feed your families for a lifetime,” said Najeeb al-Nauimi, a former Qatar justice minister and leader of a group of Arab lawyers representing nearly 100 detainees.

Trade in prisoners

Al-Nauimi said a consortium of wealthy Arabs, including Saudis, told him they also bought back fellow citizens who had been captured by Pakistanis.

Khalid al-Odha, who started a group fighting to free 12 Kuwaiti detainees, said his imprisoned son, Fawzi, wrote him a letter from Guantanamo Bay about Kuwaitis being sold to the Americans in Afghanistan.

One Kuwaiti who was released, 26-year-old Nasser al-Mutairi, told al-Odha that interrogators said Dostum’s forces sold them to the Pakistanis for $5,000 each, and the Pakistanis in turn sold them to the Americans.

“I also heard that Saudis were sold to the Saudi government by the Pakistanis,” al-Odha said. “If I had known that, I would have gone and bought my son back.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8049868/

US spend millions for buy detainees from Pakistani authorties... What a waste.... :roll: WTF?

Accord read Turkish-German Murat Kurnaz's book "Five Years of My Life: An Innocent Man in Guantanamo" - He didn't know that he was being sold to US forces for $3,000 by Pakistani authorties until he was being told by detainees, he met and make new friends with in Guantanamo Bay. During Torture, he told soliders that they KNEW in beginning that he is an innocent because Pakistani police sold him to them for $5,000... One of soliders corrected him that it's $3,000 they paid for him to Pakistani.

Money? from US taxpayers?

What a waste...

European-muslims are being warn to not fly over to Pakistani for vacation because Pakistani like to make business with money to US forces when they see muslim foreginers in their country.


That's why I Obama's decision.

 

[Foxrac]

I did not create a thread but US ADer. If you complaint then say this to him, not me because it's him who create a thread to ask us for our opinion.



Why should I create my own thread since you brought the subject over Russia and China up in first place? I offer you my friendly suggestion to create a new thread if we want to talk about torture in different countries.

I would not take posts personally when I were you because we have the right to express our POV on any situation... They also have the right to express their POV over German Nazi issues in different threads since 2004, too.

Ok, sure, I will do soon.

I'm against on torture for all countries.

 

[Foxrac]

Is it good idea to put innocent people in that torture camp without legal trial?

Do you support those idea?

Well, Gitmo camp isn't part of our constitution and they are under military law that allows to torture or cruel punishment, unless president tell to stop or so.

 

[Jiro]

Ok, sure, I will do soon.

I'm against on torture for all countries.

I don't like to say this but I do support torture. It is too complicated to delve in it but I recognize the importance of it. This 9/11 and Bush Administration really opens your eye on the whole new level of complexity of this terrorism issue...

the question is - at what cost are you willing to pay for to stay safe from terrorists... so that you can have a happy cheery life, raise family, teach your kid to ride bike, etc. without worrying about somebody blowing up your mall or flying into your building?

that's why... if there's ONE thing that I'm appreciative of from Bush Administration.. it's President Bush making incredibly impossible decisions that no Presidents would dare to do... and even me... and even he knew that he will be shitfaced with this for decades... that's to torture terrorists for vital information to keep us safe. But I'm sad that it got way out of hands and it went too far to the point that it's disgusting.

 

[Jiro]

Well, Gitmo camp isn't part of our constitution and they are under military law that allows to torture or cruel punishment, unless president tell to stop or so.

actually no. Military Law forbids it. That's why they hired "Independent Contractor" to do it for military. It's a clever walk-around but rather shameful.

 

[Byrdie714]

Well a Serial killer kills lots of people. He is clasified as a criminal.

A terrorist also kills lots of people so he can also be clasified the same way.

That's why I was asking why the distinction?

I think you overlooked my post as it explictly explains the difference between the two.....

They all are.

They all commited terrorist attacks against the State.

Tim McVeigh--we all know bombed the federal building in OKC. Eric Rudolph as the bomber of the Atlanta Olympics, Ted Kaczynski was known to sent bombs to universities and airlines which disrupts commerce, Rami Yousef was part of the WTC bombings and Aum Shinrikyo of Japan carried out the terrorist attacks on their subway system as well as started a religious cult.

So the above--were all political acts.

A criminal commits an act against an individual.

A terrorist commits an act against the State.

Link? I never heard that they don't complaint... From read former German-Turkish Guantanamo detainee Murat Kurnaz's book "Five Years of My Life: An Innocent Man in Guantanamo". Oh yes, they SUFFERED sooo pain... and innocent... Murat met many detainees including minor datainees as well... They suffered because they want to know how their family doing, need help, etc.

My quote was a reference to that all prisoners complain about being mis-treated in prison.