Girl accidentally kills firing range instructor

[seb]

That was the point I was making Reba. No one is forcing anyone to own guns. The only people who are wanting to use "force" are those (and yes, they are politically affiliated) groups attempting to ban them.

Once again they aren't trying to ban ALL guns, just the assault rifles and ones with large capacity clips. Your believing the jargon the NRA is feeding you and they thank you for your support!

 

[seb]

What "NRA jargon" exactly are you having a problem with? The jargon of the Second Amendment?


Does making personal attacks substitute for logical debate?


So, you are against citizens making their own gun choices, and parents making their own decisions about child rearing?

No I've read the Second Amendment, all of the jargon they are feeding you and you are all believing.

No, they can have all the guns they want, just not semi automatic and automatic ones with clips the hold 100 bullets. There is no place in society that something like this is needed. As for child rearing, if it has to take legislative action to outlaw a child under the age of maybe 14 to own and fire a gun, so be it. We have laws in most states that don't allow kids to learn to drive until they are 15 1/5 and 14, in a few others, so do you think we should allow 7 or 9 year olds to drive a car?

 

[seb]

Oh yes, it happened. Why do you think these Vietnam war veterans had to kill kids? Better hit up on history book. Most rebels don't give a damn who they are, they don't discriminate anyone.

For these kinds of facts, don't ask for fact, you can GOOGLE up yourself and see for yourself.

The North Vietnamese army didn't use any soldiers that were younger than 15. I did look it up.

 

[Reba]

No I've read the Second Amendment, all of the jargon they are feeding you and you are all believing.

Again, an example of the "jargon" please? Since I don't read the NRA publications I don't know to what you're referring.

No, they can have all the guns they want, just not semi automatic and automatic ones with clips the hold 100 bullets.

If someone wants a semi-auto gun or a larger capacity clip, then no, they would not be able to get "all the guns they want."

There is no place in society that something like this is needed.

In your opinion, which you're entitled to, of course, as long as you don't try to force it on those who would like to obtain and keep their guns.

As for child rearing, if it has to take legislative action to outlaw a child under the age of maybe 14 to own and fire a gun, so be it. We have laws in most states that don't allow kids to learn to drive until they are 15 1/5 and 14, in a few others, so do you think we should allow 7 or 9 year olds to drive a car?

Driving a car isn't a right guaranteed by the Constitution but if you want to get technical, kids can operate vehicles on private property (such as a ranch or farm), as long as they aren't on the public roads. No, I don't want to share public roads with 7 or 9 year olds.

In most states there are already laws in place restricting minors from owning guns. If private range owners/managers are smart, they'll set and enforce minimum age rules for their property.

 

[Reba]

The North Vietnamese army didn't use any soldiers that were younger than 15. I did look it up.

Isn't 15 still a child?

Not all people who fought for the Viet Cong were legally enlisted soldiers.

However, I don't see how that relates to American Second Amendment rights.

 

[whatdidyousay!]

This made me chuckle. Not sure if true though.

Can't spell? Maybe it's because you're too clever, says Collins dictionary | Mail Online

That is not true according to this link

 

[TinCanSailor]

The North Vietnamese army didn't use any soldiers that were younger than 15. I did look it up.

You are talking about the NVA. The VC "recruited" kids and women to kill.

 

[Jiro]

Funny though, I trust them inner city impoverished people much more than the dangle-toothed lifetime NRA member cardholder up in the boonies who will do anything to defend their "God given rights". The inner city people don't give a f what you do as long as you mind your own business.

oh? inner city people? like Detroit, Oakland, Camden, Bronx, etc.? innocent people get shot all the time because the shooters spray indiscriminately. and you do realize that in impoverished inner city... innocent people get mugged at gunpoint? this happens everyday - EVERY. DAY.

we get shooting in Bronx or Brooklyn several times a month... and NYC has one of the most strictest gun ban laws in USA... and the main driver of "Mayor Against Illegal Guns" campaign.

how's it going btw? a major epic failure, I say.

 

[TinCanSailor]

And wind up like Zimmerman, Wafter, Pistorius, et al.? Not a fun thought.

Since you read all the NRA "jargon", I guess you missed the 8-10 short stories printed each month where a person with a gun (homeowner or CCW) stops a crime happening or about to. As a NRA life member, I use the NRA for gun and ammo reviews, hunting techniques. I rarely read the commentaries.

The people named above are few and far between. They make great press stories. People who stop crime rarely are mentioned. "If it bleeds, it leads!"

Btw: my AR-15 is a target rifle. Not an assault rifle. There is a difference, my ammo does not fit in a military rifle or vice-versa. It does not have a full-auto machine gun option. My shotgun does not hold more than 2 shells (one for each barrel). It will not scare any intruder ahead of time nor will it scare many orange clay flying through the air. Our CCW semi-auto pistols are equipped with ammo that will not go through the house if you miss the intruder. There are tens of thousands of responsible gun owners who are NRA members. There are tens of thousands of responsible gun owners who are not members of anything. I get the feeling that you want to "label" all of us the same for your own agenda, for whatever goal that may be.

 

[a l i v e]

oh? inner city people? like Detroit, Oakland, Camden, Bronx, etc.? innocent people get shot all the time because the shooters spray indiscriminately. and you do realize that in impoverished inner city... innocent people get mugged at gunpoint? this happens everyday - EVERY. DAY.

we get shooting in Bronx or Brooklyn several times a month... and NYC has one of the most strictest gun ban laws in USA... and the main driver of "Mayor Against Illegal Guns" campaign.

how's it going btw? a major epic failure, I say.

Yes I know all that. And still stand by my claim.

Major epic failure?
http://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/

edit: found this just now:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cscity.pdf
On the way to having another double digit % drop compared to 2013 as well.

I am not in the same boat as you are.

 

[a l i v e]

Since you read all the NRA "jargon", I guess you missed the 8-10 short stories printed each month where a person with a gun (homeowner or CCW) stops a crime happening or about to. As a NRA life member, I use the NRA for gun and ammo reviews, hunting techniques. I rarely read the commentaries.

The people named above are few and far between. They make great press stories. People who stop crime rarely are mentioned. "If it bleeds, it leads!"

Btw: my AR-15 is a target rifle. Not an assault rifle. There is a difference, my ammo does not fit in a military rifle or vice-versa. It does not have a full-auto machine gun option. My shotgun does not hold more than 2 shells (one for each barrel). It will not scare any intruder ahead of time nor will it scare many orange clay flying through the air. Our CCW semi-auto pistols are equipped with ammo that will not go through the house if you miss the intruder. There are tens of thousands of responsible gun owners who are NRA members. There are tens of thousands of responsible gun owners who are not members of anything. I get the feeling that you want to "label" all of us the same for your own agenda, for whatever goal that may be.

Not sure what you're going on about. Did I say anything about an AR-15? and "NRA jargon"? Don't think I have. Seems like you skimmed through.

The people I named are a few and far between because it does not happen as often as violence does. Like Jiro said, gun sprays and indiscriminate shooting happens daily. That, in my eyes, outweighs the good of letting everyone have a gun.

The reason I named these people was the fact they had to spend a crazy amount of money to defend what we call our rights. Which is a blemish in my book. If you want to do the same, be my guest. I just won't like it either.

And TCS. Please keep this in mind - I understand guns. I used to own them, used to subscribe to hunting magazines, member of organizations that catered to hunters as well. I just don't see the need anymore.

 

[whatdidyousay!]

Proof That Gun Control Increases Crime





I found this to be interesting .



“Might stricter gun laws result in more gun crime? It seems counterintuitive but makes sense if we consider one simple fact: Criminals don’t obey the law. Strict gun laws, like the ban in Britain, probably only affect the actions of people who wouldn’t commit crimes in the first place,” reports ABC News."

 

[TinCanSailor]

Not sure what you're going on about. Did I say anything about an AR-15? and "NRA jargon"? Don't think I have. Seems like you skimmed through.

The people I named are a few and far between because it does not happen as often as violence does. Like Jiro said, gun sprays and indiscriminate shooting happens daily. That, in my eyes, outweighs the good of letting everyone have a gun.

The reason I named these people was the fact they had to spend a crazy amount of money to defend what we call our rights. Which is a blemish in my book. If you want to do the same, be my guest. I just won't like it either.

And TCS. Please keep this in mind - I understand guns. I used to own them, used to subscribe to hunting magazines, member of organizations that catered to hunters as well. I just don't see the need anymore.

Point taken. I just mentioned some of my types of guns to make my point.

I agree that too much of our taxpayer money is spent on "experts" vs "experts" to make their case.

My error on "jargon". Attributed to Seb.

 

[Jiro]

Yes I know all that. And still stand by my claim.

Major epic failure?
217 years of homicide in New York – Quartz

I am not in the same boat as you are.

it's very well known around here among locals (like me) that NYPD shuffle around the paperworks so that it will fall under certain category to make it looks good for mayor.... such as less gun crimes for year 2013 to make an eye-catching news headline for you and Brady Campaign nuts - "GUN CRIME ALL TIME LOW IN 2013!!!"

 

[a l i v e]

it's very well known around here among locals (like me) that NYPD shuffle around the paperworks so that it will fall under certain category to make it looks good for mayor.... such as less gun crimes for year 2013 to make an eye-catching news headline for you and Brady Campaign nuts - "GUN CRIME ALL TIME LOW IN 2013!!!"

I added another link to that post.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cscity.pdf

Homicide rates down, again. Hard to sweep homicide rates under the carpet. Also hard to make the claim that gun control failed because right after the SAFE act you see less dead people.

I do acknowledge, and have done so in this thread, localized bans don't work.

 

[Jiro]

I added another link to that post.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cscity.pdf

it proves absolutely nothing. NYPD also shuffle around paperworks to prove to public and Supreme Court that "Frisk-And-Stop" policy works well with high yield in arrest as well as other claims.

guess what? they lied. and they will keep testilying because most of them can easily get away with it... and get patted on the back with promotions.

NYPD commissioner Bill Bratton bags bust quotas in favor of
NYPD officers say they had stop-and-frisk quotas - CNN.com
Man accused of assault walks — because cop ‘lied’ in paperwork | New York Post
Report: Detective Accused Of Filing False Paperwork For Gun Reward « CBS New York
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...arrests-da-has-stated-he-wont-prosecute.shtml
NYPD Officers Need Better Accountability For Their Arrests |The Blinker
Former Detective Testifies NYPD Routinely Plants Evidence, Frames People to Reach Arrest Quotas | Public Intelligence
NYPD Officer Charged With Faking Drug Deal Arrest In Harlem [PHOTOS] | Hip-Hop Wired

Homicide rates down, again. Hard to sweep homicide rates under the carpet. Also hard to make the claim that gun control failed because right after the SAFE act you see less dead people.

I do acknowledge, and have done so in this thread, localized bans don't work.

LOL you think so? LOL

sorry bud. the statistic means absolutely nothing when you know nothing in background. I'm the local here and I can absolutely say with certainty that you are hearing what you want to hear. in fact - the statistic proves me right.

 

[Jiro]

The population of the United States in the last census was 314 million. The number of people who are hunters in the United States in 2012, which is the last year that statistics are available: 12.5 million of which only 10.7 hunt for big game. This is only 7% of the total population. The average cost of hunting the "big game" by hunters is $2,000 per year, so they would probably be better off going to the store and buying their meat there, IT WOULD BE CHEAPER! Further, the number one miss spelled word on internet searches each month is "huting" when they mean hunting, so this is further proof we aren't dealing with the sharpest knives in the drawer.

you missed one thing... a very crucial thing....

do you realize that only few states actually go out to grocery to buy meat? that "few" states are the one with major cities - disillusioned and disconnected from the reality. the saddest part? they throw away such wasteful amount of food. what a tragedy.

many states hunt to eat and make their own stuff... and many states defend themselves because 911 would take over 30 minutes to get to you.

so why don't you do the math again and see how many people live in metropolitan cities? your revised calculation (hopefully correct this time) will show that many states hunt for food.

 

[Jiro]

Do you have any proof to back up you claim? Other than seeing pictures of these poor kids holding a gun?

um..... wow.

if you had to ask that, that tells me how disconnected you are from the reality. there are several documentaries (such as Kony) about child soldiers in Africa (Somalia, Uganda, Rwanda, etc) and many news footages of children holding AK-47 and spraying around.

do you know why children kept on being barbarous soldiers? because since they were forced to massacre their own people (village) including their families... they felt they no longer have homes to return back to and nobody in any village would welcome them or allow them to live if they escaped. very few camps were set up to take in child soldiers and reform them back to humanity.

and you're asking me if I have any proof to back up my claim? where have you been, brah? mein gott... mein gott..... *shaking my head incredulously*

 

[seb]

um..... wow.

if you had to ask that, that tells me how disconnected you are from the reality. there are several documentaries (such as Kony) about child soldiers in Africa (Somalia, Uganda, Rwanda, etc) and many news footages of children holding AK-47 and spraying around.

do you know why children kept on being barbarous soldiers? because since they were forced to massacre their own people (village) including their families... they felt they no longer have homes to return back to and nobody in any village would welcome them or allow them to live if they escaped. very few camps were set up to take in child soldiers and reform them back to humanity.

and you're asking me if I have any proof to back up my claim? where have you been, brah? mein gott... mein gott..... *shaking my head incredulously*

And this justifies teaching a child to shoot a gun? All it proves is what I've been saying all along, put a gun in a childs hand and they can or will kill someone.

 

[seb]

you missed one thing... a very crucial thing....



so why don't you do the math again and see how many people live in metropolitan cities? your revised calculation (hopefully correct this time) will show that many states hunt for food.

Dude, the numbers don't lie, only 12.5 million in the US hunt and of the 12.5 million only 10.7 million hunt big game. So these 12.7 million must be shooting a lot of big game to feed most of the 314 million in the US as you claim. Try going into a grocery store I 'm sure you will see people at the meat counter. I have over 40 relatives in various parts of Upstate NY and I also have relatives who live in Ohio and not one of them that I know of hunts, so they must be getting their meat someplace. Maybe they are paying their neighbor to go out and hunt it down and kill it for them! Also one more statistic for you gun owners outnumber hunters by a 5 to 1 margin. Just goes to show you that there are way to many guns out there, even if they only had one gun that's over 62 million of them.