For those who suport NCLB..take a hard look at this cartoon

Deafguy25 said:
I asked that too. I specifically asked how we insure that students (deaf included) have a minimum level of math and literacy skills. I was told that literacy doesn't matter and that deaf kids shouldn't be tested on English. Which, to me, is profane. To lower our standards to allow illiteracy is just unacceptable.
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YOu were told? By who?
 
Shel and PFH- I hope I was not off base with my posts. I do understand what you are both saying and I totally agree with you both. I'm not too sure my posts made that point or if they went in the wrong direction. If they did go wrong, I'm sorry. I just totally hate NCLB.
 
KristinaB said:
Shel and PFH- I hope I was not off base with my posts. I do understand what you are both saying and I totally agree with you both. I'm not too sure my posts made that point or if they went in the wrong direction. If they did go wrong, I'm sorry. I just totally hate NCLB.
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You made good points about NCLB with different issues.

The point is that NCLB doesnt do any child, deaf or hearing justice.


Somehow, this thread turned out to be about being literate in English for deaf children.
 
shel90 said:
You made good points about NCLB with different issues.

The point is that NCLB doesnt do any child, deaf or hearing justice.


Somehow, this thread turned out to be about being literate in English for deaf children.
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This is so true and I can't understand anyone who doesn't understand that. I also don't totally understand how it went onto the track that it did, but I guess that's how some posters "balls" roll.
 
deafskeptic said:
I find it strange that someone who's DoD would have a difficult time grasping this concept.
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I don't have any problem understanding that. Why does everyone have a problem understanding that I support ASL? :hmm: What the disagreement ACTUALLY is is whether deaf kids should b held to minimum standard in reading and writing English. I think they should be. As I said, I don't care how they get to that level (ASL/English, SEE, Cued Speech or spoken language) I just care that they get there. There are others here who actually think that literacy isn't important for deaf kids....so why aren't you guys up their butt about being ok with deaf kids not being able to read??
 
KristinaB said:
This is so true and I can't understand anyone who doesn't understand that. I also don't totally understand how it went onto the track that it did, but I guess that's how some posters "balls" roll.
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Because NCLB failed to include ASL as a possible first language instead of English for some Americans who live in this country. WHO has the right to dictate to ME what language I should be proficient in? To use?
 
deafbajagal said:
Deaf children can be, and some are, LITERATE, in ASL. Unfortunately, in our present society in the U.S., English is deemed as "The language" to learn.

One can fully function in the United States without English. It's a foreign concept for many people. If a child learns Spanish as a second language and can use it with minimal conversation skills, we often jump for joy at his accomplishment. Yet a deaf child who is fluent in ASL and can use basic English, as his SECOND language, is told to do better. That's hypocritical...and unfair. Especially since often there isn't a formal assessment for ASL in place to show his true literacy skills with his FIRST language.
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It is not hypocritical to expect deaf kids to read and write. There is not written form of ASL, so they need to learn another language. In the US, it is usually English. Are you OK with them not reading?
 
deafbajagal said:
Because NCLB failed to include ASL as a possible first language instead of English for some Americans who live in this country. WHO has the right to dictate to ME what language I should be proficient in? To use?
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I understand what you are saying and I totally and wholeheartedly agree.
 
Deafguy25 said:
It is not hypocritical to expect deaf kids to read and write. There is not written form of ASL, so they need to learn another language. In the US, it is usually English. Are you OK with them not reading?
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What makes you think d/Deaf kids can't read? At least that's what I am getting from this post.

We have a 2-3 y/o deaf child in my Deaf church. She has been using ASL since she was 6 months old and was exposed to it at birth. Both parents are deaf. Her older sister is hearing and her baby sister is deaf. This 2-3 y/o can already read preschool and kindergarten level books. I took in a old bible of my daughter from when she was a toddler and this deaf toddler could read it. Now, there is also a deaf girl who is 19. She was forced by her family to be in mainstream and try to make it through. HA's do not help her. She learned ASL as a toddler, but her family does not sign at all. She had terps in school. She is able to both read and write on a college level, but yet, due to difficulties at birth, which caused her hearing loss, she is mentally challenged. She communicates at a 10 year old level.
 
Deafguy25 said:
It is not hypocritical to expect deaf kids to read and write. There is not written form of ASL, so they need to learn another language. In the US, it is usually English. Are you OK with them not reading?
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So you're saying ASL isn't good enough because there isn't a written form of it. ASL isn't the only language in the world that doesn't have a written form.

And re-read my post...I didn't say it was hypocritical to expect deaf kids to read English. I was referring to the level of expectation...and if I'm not mistaken, you yourself mentioned a MINIMAL level. NCLB expects 100% proficient levels, not just minimal standards.
 
KristinaB said:
What makes you think d/Deaf kids can't read? At least that's what I am getting from this post.

We have a 2-3 y/o deaf child in my Deaf church. She has been using ASL since she was 6 months old and was exposed to it at birth. Both parents are deaf. Her older sister is hearing and her baby sister is deaf. This 2-3 y/o can already read preschool and kindergarten level books. I took in a old bible of my daughter from when she was a toddler and this deaf toddler could read it. Now, there is also a deaf girl who is 19. She was forced by her family to be in mainstream and try to make it through. HA's do not help her. She learned ASL as a toddler, but her family does not sign at all. She had terps in school. She is able to both read and write on a college level, but yet, due to difficulties at birth, which caused her hearing loss, she is mentally challenged. She communicates at a 10 year old level.
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I am not saying that all deaf kids can't read, of course not. But, unfortunately the average reading level of a deaf student graduating is low. I introduced the idea of deaf kids being held to a minimum standard for reading and writing (since this thread is about standardized testing) and the response had been, in general, "nah, that isn't needed. They have ASL."
 
deafbajagal said:
So you're saying ASL isn't good enough because there isn't a written form of it. ASL isn't the only language in the world that doesn't have a written form.

And re-read my post...I didn't say it was hypocritical to expect deaf kids to read English. I was referring to the level of expectation...and if I'm not mistaken, you yourself mentioned a MINIMAL level. NCLB expects 100% proficient levels, not just minimal standards.
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And that is why I don't support NCLB. I would support a minimum standard, but it should be grade-level, unless the child has a disability.
 
Deafguy25 said:
I am not saying that all deaf kids can't read, of course not. But, unfortunately the average reading level of a deaf student graduating is low. I introduced the idea of deaf kids being held to a minimum standard for reading and writing (since this thread is about standardized testing) and the response had been, in general, "nah, that isn't needed. They have ASL."
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And I had heard that it was not as low as you are thinking. Teachers of the deaf have made great strides in teaching their students to read. More and more students are at or above grade level in their reading, from what I understand.
 
Deafguy25 said:
And that is why I don't support NCLB. I would support a minimum standard, but it should be grade-level, unless the child has a disability.
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You didn't say this at anytime before that I noticed. Why all of a sudden do you being this exclusion up. Even we deaf do not think being d/hoh as a disability, most mainstream schools do.
 
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Hearing kids' reading levels are just as low, across the board. That's why the government is scrambling for education reform, once again. America is rapidly sinking on the list of achievement in Science, Mathematics, and technology in the world.
 
Deafguy25 said:
I am not saying that all deaf kids can't read, of course not. But, unfortunately the average reading level of a deaf student graduating is low. I introduced the idea of deaf kids being held to a minimum standard for reading and writing (since this thread is about standardized testing) and the response had been, in general, "nah, that isn't needed. They have ASL."
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For the bolded, that is no longer the case. Those who use ASL catch up very quickly with their hearing peers (at least, those who do not have "low reading skills"). What do you propose, then, if not ASL in teaching English? It is precisely because ASL was NOT used they had reading skills below par.
 
When ASL was embraced, and there wasn't much pressure on English skills while kids were allowed to be emerged in ASL for language acquisition, guess what happened? English skills improved dramatically. As you said, Beowulf, when kids are left to their devices, they develop skills. An idea that Vgotsky once mentioned (social development --> language.acquisition).

Language cannot be taught. Natural acquisition must be allowed in order for language to be developed. NCLB thinks we gave birth to a generation of robots.
 
Deafguy25 said:
I am not saying that all deaf kids can't read, of course not. But, unfortunately the average reading level of a deaf student graduating is low. I introduced the idea of deaf kids being held to a minimum standard for reading and writing (since this thread is about standardized testing) and the response had been, in general, "nah, that isn't needed. They have ASL."
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Sorry to break the news to you: The reason we have NCLB is because of the hearing students faltering out there.
 
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