Florida Neighborhood Watch

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"citizen arrest" is extremely tricky and you can get arrested if nothing happened. even if you made an honest mistake because you thought he stole something, you can and will be charged with various things such as false imprisonment, aggravated assault with deadly weapon (because Zimmerman had a gun), intimidation and pointing a firearm in public, and few other things... and also get sued for injury and whatnot.

that's why it's rare to hear news relating to citizen's arrest and it's even much much rarer to hear an armed citizen performing citizen arrest. in fact - I've never heard of armed citizen performing citizen arrest. what do you think why 911 dispatcher said "you do not have to do that"? do you realize that legal repercussion is far too great if you're an ARMED private citizen? The difference between police officer and armed private citizen doing a neighborhood watch duty is that in case of mistaken arrest, you will be arrested, charged, and treated like a felon who just robbed a bank with gun.... and police officer doesn't get criminally charged if he made a mistake. That's the difference.

It is rare because most citizens are not stupid enough to do it. To be clear, the ability to sue for wrongful imprisonment hinges on, "authority". And, I might point out, if the law states a private citizen can make an arrest then he/she does, in fact, have the authority. Whether the arrest involved unnecessary force is another matter entirely. If you can come up with some cases, I'd love to read the briefs. The majority of cases are against security guards. IMO(yes you read that right), most private citizen lawsuits are thrown out unless unnecessary force can be proved.

ALL states have Good Samaritan Laws and do you know what is it for? legally protecting you for providing medical aid to injured, not chasing and arresting a person or anything in such kind.

Wrong again, Massachusetts does not have one. And, the wording is up to the state.

and police officer cannot and would not tell a private citizen to do a police job for him. it's a serious and huge liability risk for both police department and citizen.

Really? Please support that with some regulations. The police ask the public for help everyday. And, that does, in fact, put ordinary citizens at risk.


oh boy... you surely got your facts all wrong.

here's a correct fact -


based on what I read - it looks like Zimmerman slipped and hit his head thus accidentally shooting

perhaps you should read the timeline of events before you speak more. you are very confused. - http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/03/trayvon-martin-case-timeline-of-events/


Jiro, you want to use the news as a source, fine, here is the trascript of 911 calls:

911 calls paint picture of chaos after Florida teen is shot – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

7:16 p.m. ET
Caller: "Yes. And the guy on top had a white t-shirt."

Jiro, I believe that would be Zimmerman.

Officers arrived on the scene at 7:17 p.m. ET, according to a police report.

Officers Timothy Smith and Ricardo Alayo said they noted a black male in a gray hooded sweatshirt lying face-down in the grass, as well as a white male in the area.

"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and he was covered in grass, as if he was laying on his back on the ground," Smith wrote in the police report. "Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of the head."

Jiro you note the time here, the whole incident happened from 7:09 to 7:18 about 8 minutes. And, I suppose you think Zimmerman hit himself in the nose with his own gun?

it still doesn't qualify enough for hate crime. again - in order to make it a hate crime, one has to have a racial hostility/animus. Just uttering a racist word in the moment of violence does not meet legal standard of hate crime.

Is racial profiling a hate crime? Please inform the police of this, immediately!
I never said anything about what he said, I only stated that he used race as a factor to single him out.


I wouldn't use "IMO" too much if I don't know enough to make a statement or assumption. IMO is a pure laziness and reckless too. best to speak with facts at hand.

Well, maybe you should because you are certainly making a lot of assumptions. You only quoted ABC news.

Neighborhood Watch - your job is to watch out and call cop, not act like Charles Bronson or cop. This guy wasn't doing a Neighborhood Watch duty... he's a paranoid dumbass who shouldn't be allowed to have a gun to begin with.

Please tell that to the Guardian Angels, you know that vigilante group, I believe you'll have no trouble finding one as you are so close to New York.
 
...we all have said racial epithet unconsciously in a moment of anger but does that make us racist?
Not true. I've never used a racial epithet, even in a moment of anger. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
 
The problem with this case is like most. We the people right now just don't have enough facts to make a judgement call. Simply put, we weren't there! I hate arm chair quarterbacking from either side. There are prejudices coming from both sides at this point. This will be for detectives to review and investigate and possibly a judge and jury to decide.
 
It is rare because most citizens are not stupid enough to do it. To be clear, the ability to sue for wrongful imprisonment hinges on, "authority". And, I might point out, if the law states a private citizen can make an arrest then he/she does, in fact, have the authority.
Citizen Arrest can ONLY be performed if a felony crime had ACTUALLY occurred right in front of your eyes. Since NOTHING happened in Trayvon's case, Zimmerman's citizen's arrest was illegal and he should be criminally charged with what I just said above. Why wasn't he criminally charged? I do not know. That's why the police captain stepped down and investigation is now on-going.

The law is very crystal clear. No citizen has ANY POWER OF AUTHORITY to arrest anybody. ONLY law enforcements have authority to do so. Citizen's Arrest is not exactly inked in our laws but most of time, courts do give law-abiding citizens a very tiny leeway in this case. Citizen's Arrest is very very very very tricky and it is STRONGLY advised not to do it. That's what cops are for. Witness a crime. Record any information. Call police. Let them handle it.

You can go ahead and try to find Citizen's Arrest in your state law. Go ahead and let me know if you ever find it. North Carolina is the only state in America that doesn't allow citizen's arrest.

Whether the arrest involved unnecessary force is another matter entirely.
yes precisely. it's also another matter and extremely risky. Simply put - do not attempt a citizen's arrest physically. Just yell HALT and "I AM PLACING YOU UNDER CITIZEN'S ARREST." Do not attempt to physically detain one unless the situation is absolutely dire.

Bottom Line - despite of your act of good faith, you are still exposing yourself to criminal and civil liability when performing citizen's arrest. Why risk massive legal headache with lawyers and bullshit? It's very simple.

If you can come up with some cases, I'd love to read the briefs.
not a legal case but here -

Militia group to attempt citizen's arrest in Fla. shooting of Trayvon Martin - Crimesider - CBS News
There is no mention of citizen's arrests in Florida's criminal statutes but state courts have cited common law in establishing when such an arrest can be made. The crime has to be a felony. It has to be witnessed by the citizen making the arrest or the citizen has to have probable cause that the person being arrested is guilty of a felony.

Orlando criminal defense attorney Patrick Cairns said members of the militia face a high legal hurdle in taking such action since they didn't witness a crime. They could be charged with false imprisonment if they detain Zimmerman.

Just for your amusement - http://www.flhsmv.gov/CASES/Furr.html

The majority of cases are against security guards. IMO(yes you read that right), most private citizen lawsuits are thrown out unless unnecessary force can be proved.
I'm sorry. I don't understand what you just wrote.

Wrong again, Massachusetts does not have one. And, the wording is up to the state.
what? um.... yes Massachusetts does have Good Samaritan Law. So do all states.

Massachusetts Law - Part III - Title IV - Chapter 258C - Section 13
Section 13. No person who, in good faith, provides or obtains, or attempts to provide or obtain, assistance for a victim of a crime as defined in section one, shall be liable in a civil suit for damages as a result of any acts or omissions in providing or obtaining, or attempting to provide or obtain, such assistance unless such acts or omissions constitute willful, wanton or reckless conduct.

Really? Please support that with some regulations. The police ask the public for help everyday. And, that does, in fact, put ordinary citizens at risk.
you are confused. yes.... the police ask the public for help everyday.... for information in capture of a criminal. this is not Wild West or 1800's. They do not round up armed citizens and then deputize them.

Jiro, you want to use the news as a source, fine, here is the trascript of 911 calls:

911 calls paint picture of chaos after Florida teen is shot – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

7:16 p.m. ET
Caller: "Yes. And the guy on top had a white t-shirt."

Jiro, I believe that would be Zimmerman.

Officers arrived on the scene at 7:17 p.m. ET, according to a police report.

Officers Timothy Smith and Ricardo Alayo said they noted a black male in a gray hooded sweatshirt lying face-down in the grass, as well as a white male in the area.

"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and he was covered in grass, as if he was laying on his back on the ground," Smith wrote in the police report. "Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of the head."

Jiro you note the time here, the whole incident happened from 7:09 to 7:18 about 8 minutes. And, I suppose you think Zimmerman hit himself in the nose with his own gun?
yes it is possible that Zimmerman hit himself in the nose with his own gun after firing due to recoil. or he slipped since it was rainy.

either way - because of how the situation was handled by police department, I believe the credibility of police report is questionable at best. I'll go with what witnesses said. Most have said there were screaming - mostly Trayvon screaming for help and begging for mercy... and then gunshot.

Is racial profiling a hate crime? Please inform the police of this, immediately!
I never said anything about what he said, I only stated that he used race as a factor to single him out.
right. I believe it is not enough to make it a hate crime. that's why FBI is investigating this. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Please tell that to the Guardian Angels, you know that vigilante group, I believe you'll have no trouble finding one as you are so close to New York.
The only difference between New York and Florida is that NY is not a gun-friendly state. It's nearly impossible for law-abiding citizen to have a permit to carry a gun in NY. and a person is only a vigilante if he acts like a cop and take laws into his own hands like Charles Bronson or Batman.

I don't know what's this Guardian Angels you speak of but if they're just a watchdog group, fine with me as long as they don't take laws into their own hands.
 
VacationGuy - I have to go out for a while. I found some legal cases that you request for. I'll post it when I get back after I finish reviewing them.
 
There are no neighborhood watch signs in our area.
 
That has got to be one of the worst audio bytes I have ever heard. How do we know that it is even real? Could have easily been concocted!
 
That has got to be one of the worst audio bytes I have ever heard. How do we know that it is even real? Could have easily been concocted!

I heard that report from other sources as well. My understanding is that's a legitimate clip from the 911 call.
 
Citizen Arrest can ONLY be performed if a felony crime had ACTUALLY occurred right in front of your eyes.

The law is very crystal clear. No citizen has ANY POWER OF AUTHORITY to arrest anybody. ONLY law enforcements have authority to do so.


You can go ahead and try to find Citizen's Arrest in your state law. Go ahead and let me know if you ever find it. North Carolina is the only state in America that doesn't allow citizen's arrest.

I don't understand the first two bolded sections. Are you saying it can be done or it can't?

OK. District of Columbia Law 23- 582(b) reads as follows:

(b) A private person may arrest another -

(1) who he has probable cause to believe is committing in his presence -

(A) a felony, or

(B) an offense enumerated in section 23-581 (a)(2); or

(2) in aid of a law enforcement officer or special policeman,
or other person authorized by law to make an arrest.

(c) Any person making an arrest pursuant to this section shall
deliver the person arrested to a law enforcement officer without
unreasonable delay. (July 29, 1970, 84 Stat. 630, Pub. L. 91-358,
Title II, § 210(a); 1973 Ed., § 23-582; Apr. 30, 1988, D.C. Law 7-104,
§ 7(e), 35 DCR 147.)"



I'll read over the case you gave.


I'm sorry. I don't understand what you just wrote.

From what I have read the majority of cases against a non-police officer arrest has been against people in the occupation of security guard, if that is more clear.


what? um.... yes Massachusetts does have Good Samaritan Law. So do all states.

Massachusetts Law - Part III - Title IV - Chapter 258C - Section 13

I stand corrected on this point. Point well taken.


yes it is possible that Zimmerman hit himself in the nose with his own gun after firing due to recoil. or he slipped since it was rainy.

You honestly think he intended to kill the kid after he called the cops and for all he knew they could have already been there watching him? I'm sorry, I just don't follow that logic.

either way - because of how the situation was handled by police department, I believe the credibility of police report is questionable at best. I'll go with what witnesses said. Most have said there were screaming - mostly Trayvon screaming for help and begging for mercy... and then gunshot.

I know the police are not angels and if the cops know him personally that might be the case, but I don't think so in this case. Honestly, I don't think the cops knew what to do in this situation. Common sense would be to arrest the guy, but it's complicated by the call to the police.

right. I believe it is not enough to make it a hate crime. that's why FBI is investigating this. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Agree.

I don't know what's this Guardian Angels you speak of but if they're just a watchdog group, fine with me as long as they don't take laws into their own hands.

I'm amazed you haven't heard of it.

The Alliance of Guardian Angels

Guardian Angels - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
...I don't know what's this Guardian Angels you speak of but if they're just a watchdog group, fine with me as long as they don't take laws into their own hands.
They're a very well-known, NYC born and bred group, with a nationwide reputation. They've become mainstream since their early days.
 
...Please tell that to the Guardian Angels, you know that vigilante group, I believe you'll have no trouble finding one as you are so close to New York.
They are not a vigilante group. From your link:

"Safety Patrol members are prohibited from carrying weapons and are physically searched before patrolling."
 
That has got to be one of the worst audio bytes I have ever heard. How do we know that it is even real? Could have easily been concocted!

Highly unlikely that it would have been concocted...besides, it was actually difficult to hear what he said exactly but one of the audio excerpt says it is most likely that he said "punk". Not "coon". So yeah...he would be in much deeper shit if he actually said coon.
 
Wrong. A private citizen can make a citizens arrest and some states have clear wording on this explicitly. And, if a police officer tells you to stop someone you are basically an agent(not arguing it happened in this case). This would be a question for the courts. Furthermore, some states have Good Samaritan laws which absolve private citizens from fault.



If you read the police report, you would know that Zimmerman was bleeding from the head and his back was wet with grass on it. Clearly, he was on the bottom(if you take that statement to be true). The kid, if he was crying at all, was crying after he was shot.



Argumentative: If you live in an all white neighborhood, someone of a different racial background is going to look suspicious. There is no way you can not use racial profiling in this case. Is it right, no, but they are correct that his racial background as well as stereotypes played a role.



You're stating the obvious. If you read my post, almost everything I stated was qualified with, "IMO". The acronym stands for, "In my opinion". I don't know how much plainer I can state that it was my opinion.



I don't disagree as I don't see how you can define, "neighborhood watch" as anything but vigilantism. And, I stated, "he will have to pay too".

The kid was yelling for help and people said that yelling stopped after they heard the gun shots! Zimmerman could had been in a fight with someone else before he saw the kid and the poor kid became an innocent victim.
The cops did not get any criminal evidences from Zimmerman's gun, clothing, etc . All of the criminal evidences been lost because the cops did not do their job. This is a cover up to me! I want to know why the cops did not at least bring Zimmerman in so they could of removed all of his clothing to see if there was any of Trayvon Martin DNA on Zimmerman cloths or body.
The cops just took the words of Zimmerman without trying to see if could be backed up with the evidences that where never recovered. And I can relate to what Obama said if he had a son ," He would like looked like Trayvon Martin" If I had a son he could had looked like Trayvon Martin too. My daughter is biracial, her father was Black. Trayvon Martin's mother is right this is could be anyone son. People like Zimmerman needs to be stopped!
I think Stand Your Ground Law should be done away with as it only going to get more innocent people killed.
 
I don't think the law is the problem as the law does not authorize people to pursue, confront and use deadly force.

The real problem with this case, IMO, is the fact that the guy was part of a neighborhood watch which is supposed to work with the police. And, in this case, the guy was working with police. The real question is whether someone in that capacity has any legal protection.

IMO, this is a case were the guy thought he could handle a kid, but quickly found out he couldn't and panicked. It's simply an accident which escalated to a point of no return, a tragedy. He picked the wrong kid.

The law should always favor the law abiding citizen. In this case, there were two law abiding citizens so the law does not apply, IMO. This is a case were both people are innocent and guilty, both the kid and the guy overreacted.

Bottom line: The kid already paid for it and now the guy is going to have to pay for it too.

How did the kid become guilty of any crime when no one know what really happen. The kid was unarmed and walking, Zimmerman was armed with a gun and following the kid in a car. Zimmerman is a hotheaded guy and should never been allowed to be the Captain of neighbor watch group. Zimmerman is out looking for any excuse to shot a Black person because he is pissed off about the crime. Zimmerman is a walking time bomb!
 
I never siad the kid was a criminal. If you read my earlier post, I said both are innocent and guilty. IMO, they both over reacted. I think the kid socked Zimmerman and put him on the ground. I think Zimmerman got scared and shot him. I believe the police report states Zimmerman called for help, but I can't verify that easily from my phone.

It is not clear who was yelling for help as nobody saw it. And, the police don't evidence because Zimmerman confessed. Their job is to get the criminal and they found him. They don't look for truth..

It wasn't me that is against Vigilante groups either, it was Jiro.
 
The kid was yelling for help and people said that yelling stopped after they heard the gun shots! Zimmerman could had been in a fight with someone else before he saw the kid and the poor kid became an innocent victim.
The cops did not get any criminal evidences from Zimmerman's gun, clothing, etc . All of the criminal evidences been lost because the cops did not do their job. This is a cover up to me! I want to know why the cops did not at least bring Zimmerman in so they could of removed all of his clothing to see if there was any of Trayvon Martin DNA on Zimmerman cloths or body.
The cops just took the words of Zimmerman without trying to see if could be backed up with the evidences that where never recovered. And I can relate to what Obama said if he had a son ," He would like looked like Trayvon Martin" If I had a son he could had looked like Trayvon Martin too. My daughter is biracial, her father was Black. Trayvon Martin's mother is right this is could be anyone son. People like Zimmerman needs to be stopped!
I think Stand Your Ground Law should be done away with as it only going to get more innocent people killed.

Laws don't kill people, people kill people. Again, you cannot, "cover up" someone who confesses, think about it.
 
I never siad the kid was a criminal. If you read my earlier post, I said both are innocent and guilty.
there's no such thing as "innocent and guilty" at same time but I'll help you. Zimmerman is guilty. Trayvon was innocent.

IMO, they both over reacted.
the only person who overreacted was Zimmerman. He was seeing something that didn't exist. No felony crime had occurred.

I think the kid socked Zimmerman and put him on the ground. I think Zimmerman got scared and shot him. I believe the police report states Zimmerman called for help, but I can't verify that easily from my phone.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what the investigation reveals.

It is not clear who was yelling for help as nobody saw it. And, the police don't evidence because Zimmerman confessed. Their job is to get the criminal and they found him. They don't look for truth..

It wasn't me that is against Vigilante groups either, it was Jiro.

what makes you think Guardian Angels is a vigilante group? and what is your definition of vigilante group?
 
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