Experiences with my daughter.

[rick48]

However you are correctling something that is not pathological to the individual expereincing it. Rather than expanding on the nautral abilites and adaptive nature of the deaf, you correct that which is considered, by your perspective, to be defective. In the process, you create complications in the natural adaptation and force the individual to attempt to function from your viewpoint, rather than their own.

Hey Cloggy, how about that, and to think that we thought all along that we were giving our children opportunities. Amazing how someone who has never met our children thinks she knows our children better then we do!

 

[jillio]

Hey Cloggy, how about that, and to think that we thought all along that we were giving our children opportunities. Amazing how someone who has never met our children thinks she knows our children better then we do!

First of all, this has nothing to do with "your children". Once agian, you are taking everything very personally, when it is philosphical in nature.

So, you provided "opportunities" for your children. Exactly how did you do that? What action did you take in order to provide said "opportunites?" And who made the judgement that those opportiunities could only be provided in that way?

 

[rick48]

What were you trying to do with the CI? If there was nothing defective to be corrected then there would be no reason for a CI, now would there?

So any parent who gives HAs to their child also considers them to be defective. Along with eyeglasses, orthopedic shoes, pacemakers, etc.

Make up your mind, in one thread you criticize me for mentioning my child now you are asking me a direct question about her. Which position are you taking? Come back to me when you decide.

 

[jillio]

So any parent who gives HAs to their child also considers them to be defective. Along with eyeglasses, orthopedic shoes, pacemakers, etc.

Make up your mind, in one thread you criticize me for mentioning my child now you are asking me a direct question about her. Which position are you taking? Come back to me when you decide.

HAs, eyeglasses, and orthopedic shoes do not attempt to surgically alter the person, but to assist. Fallicious comparison. Implanation of a pacemaker is a life saving procedure, and most assuredly, by all admissions, is done to correct pathology inthe cardiac function of an idividual suffereing from disease. So, if you want to compare CI to a pacemaker, are you saying that the above all holds true for CI implantation? That it is a surgical procedure necessary to preserve the life of an idividual suffering from disease and is a necssary option to correct the pathology so described?

And, how about answering the origninal question?

 

[Tousi]

Cloggy, hopefully this hasn't advanced too far along in the discussion but Jillio is NOT against the idea of a CI, per se. She's basically saying, ok, fine (re: the CI) but that's only part of the issue; why aren't you affording your child the full tapestry of opportunities that will make your child even more well-rounded?

 

[jillio]

Cloggy, hopefully this hasn't advanced too far along in the discussion but Jillio is NOT against the idea of a CI, per se. She's basically saying, ok, fine (re: the CI) but that's only part of the issue; why aren't you affording your child the full tapestry of opportunities that will make your child even more well-rounded?

And, once again, the whole point has been illustrated.

 

[rick48]

Cloggy, hopefully this hasn't advanced too far along in the discussion but Jillio is NOT against the idea of a CI, per se. She's basically saying, ok, fine (re: the CI) but that's only part of the issue; why aren't you affording your child the full tapestry of opportunities that will make your child even more well-rounded?

She's not? Then perhaps you or she can tell us when she is in favor of implanting a child?

How about it Jillio? Please explain the circumstances wherein you support a parent's right to choose and then implant their child.

Tousi, are you also saying that if the child demonstrates a preference for oral language and not for a signed languge that the parents should force a manual language upon their child? Even if the child is progressing with the develoment of the spoken language?

When do you, as a parent, say I understand that there is a "full tapestry of opportunities" but my child, who is a unique individual, has demonstrated a decided preference for this part of the "tapestry" and it appears to be working better then any other part of the "tapestry"?

 

[rick48]

HAs, eyeglasses, and orthopedic shoes do not attempt to surgically alter the person, but to assist. Fallicious comparison. Implanation of a pacemaker is a life saving procedure, and most assuredly, by all admissions, is done to correct pathology inthe cardiac function of an idividual suffereing from disease. So, if you want to compare CI to a pacemaker, are you saying that the above all holds true for CI implantation? That it is a surgical procedure necessary to preserve the life of an idividual suffering from disease and is a necssary option to correct the pathology so described?

And, how about answering the origninal question?

Cleft palate, plastic surgery, inserting metal pins and rods to strengthen, straighten and/or hold bones together, etc. are examples of non-life saving surgical procedures that also assist. Guess you are against them as well.

Why don't you just admit what we already know: you are against cochlear implants for children.

 

[rick48]

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Thanks neecy but as you see, that is not enough for some people.

 

[jillio]

She's not? Then perhaps you or she can tell us when she is in favor of implanting a child?

How about it Jillio? Please explain the circumstances wherein you support a parent's right to choose and then implant their child.

I have always supported the parents right to choose from a legal standpoint. However, I have ethical and moral reasons for my personal beliefs, and those personal beliefs are what I base my own decisions on. I chose not to implant my son....what you referred to in another thread as "the safe way", I beleive. But, and this is the but that yu don't seem to understand, when you make such a choice for a child, you must accept all of the consequences that go with that choice. The choice does not end withthe surgical procedure. You are still obligated as a parent to provide all that is necessary for that child's developmental and linguistic needs.

Tousi, are you also saying that if the child demonstrates a preference for oral language and not for a signed languge that the parents should force a manual language upon their child? Even if the child is progressing with the develoment of the spoken language?

No, rick. Stop looking at everything from such an audist perspective. You offer it, you use it, you make signed language available tothat child. You don't insist on keepingthat child's environment oral for your own convienience and then try to convince others that the childhas made the choice. A child cannot choose to use what is not available. Is progress the issue, or is fluency and education the issue? One is not necessarily correlated with the other.

When do you, as a parent, say I understand that there is a "full tapestry of opportunities" but my child, who is a unique individual, has demonstrated a decided preference for this part of the "tapestry" and it appears to be working better then any other part of the "tapestry"?

You have to provide all of the pieces of the tapestry before you can make that claim, rick. This is something that you have failed to do.

 

[jillio]

Cleft palate, plastic surgery, inserting metal pins and rods to strengthen, straighten and/or hold bones together, etc. are examples of non-life saving surgical procedures that also assist. Guess you are against them as well.

Why don't you just admit what we already know: you are against cochlear implants for children.

Ahh, yes, rick, but these are also surgical procedures that correct pathology. Plastic surgery and surgery for clft palate is often necessary for the saving of a life. Children born with cleft paletes are quite often unable to proerly feed, and thus, would starve to death if the pathology was not corrected.

No, rick, I am not against CI, but evidently, you are against answering the questions I have posed. You are very consistent in your refusal to answer direct questions.....I think we all know the reason for that.

 

[rick48]

"But, and this is the but that yu don't seem to understand, when you make such a choice for a child, you must accept all of the consequences that go with that choice. The choice does not end withthe surgical procedure. You are still obligated as a parent to provide all that is necessary for that child's developmental and linguistic needs."

Wow, you mean that you just don't give a child a ci but that you have to consider the post-ci period as well? I will have to tell my wife that one, you are just a font of information! We would never have known that as we only have raised a ci child for the last 17 years and have been active in the ci community since then. Next thing you are going to tell me is that I have to change the batteries in the ci for it to continue to work.

What specific consequences did we not accept? Please name them.

What specifically did we not provide for our child's developmental needs? Please name them.

What specifically did we not provide for our daughter's lingusitic needs? Please name them.

 

[rick48]

You have to provide all of the pieces of the tapestry before you can make that claim, rick. This is something that you have failed to do.

No you do not. We are talking about children who are unique individuals with unique needs and preferences not fodder for your agenda. What is best for one child is not what is best for another.

If that is so, then why did you not do Cued speech with your son? OIC that bit about providing all the pieces of the tapestry only applies to others, not to you.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

What were you trying to do with the CI? If there was nothing defective to be corrected then there would be no reason for a CI, now would there?

Jillo our children do not have a defect what they have is missing hair cells due to these missing hair cells they cannot hear.

You also mention about the opportunities that CI gives deaf children. Well the main one is a CI allows them to hear speech in the speech banana, which allows them to learn oral language without depending on lip readsing. This is something that unless our profoundly deaf children have an implant they would not hear speech in the speech banana.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

I hope so too...
(Is an identity crises normal with deaf people?)

Cloggy identity crises can happen with anybody. A child can have one but as long as the parents are supportive and honest with their child they can help them through it.

I had identity crises when I was younger. My mom didn't know how to help and didn't understand it. I grew up in southern CA. I have light skin and come very typical Mexican family. I wasn't white enough for the white race and I most certainly wasn't dark enough for my family plus my Spanish although fluent wasn't native speaking.

Cloggy if Lotte goes through something like that I am sure you and your wife will be able to help her through it.

 

[deafdyke]

This is something that unless our profoundly deaf children have an implant they would not hear speech in the speech banana.

Not quite.........there are profoundly deaf people who are mildly hoh with hearing aids. Not all profoundly deaf people are "deaf enough" for CI.

Oh, and Jackie, I am AMAZED that you're not more understanding about the hoh sitution, seeing as you didn't completly fit in any where. Hoh folks have virtually the same issues that biracial or not "white/black/whatever race enough" folks have, at least in terms of idneity.
We are pushed towards the hearing world........we are pushed towards the majority in other words. We aren't really encouraged to explore our "being deaf.".........usually all we get is a pamphet on How the Ear Hears and lectures on How to Read An Audiogram and 101 articles on The Latest Hearing Technology.

 

[Tousi]

What, praytell, is a speech banana? I might learn something....

 

[jillio]

"But, and this is the but that yu don't seem to understand, when you make such a choice for a child, you must accept all of the consequences that go with that choice. The choice does not end withthe surgical procedure. You are still obligated as a parent to provide all that is necessary for that child's developmental and linguistic needs."

Wow, you mean that you just don't give a child a ci but that you have to consider the post-ci period as well? I will have to tell my wife that one, you are just a font of information! We would never have known that as we only have raised a ci child for the last 17 years and have been active in the ci community since then. Next thing you are going to tell me is that I have to change the batteries in the ci for it to continue to work.

What specific consequences did we not accept? Please name them.

What specifically did we not provide for our child's developmental needs? Please name them.

What specifically did we not provide for our daughter's lingusitic needs? Please name them.

Once again, rick, this is not about you! It is about a larger group of people. Will you get out of that egocentric paranoia?

 

[sr171soars]

What, praytell, is a speech banana? I might learn something....

It is another way of stating the hearing range necessary for understanding speech. A CI is mainly geared for that for obvious reasons.

 

[R2D2]

What, praytell, is a speech banana? I might learn something....

Picture an audiogram and imagine a banana in the top half of the audiogram, positioned flat with the ends pointing left and right. That is the area of decibel/frequency range at which speech is heard.