Excessive Force Used By Police When Pulling Over a Local Deaf Man

Cops are really getting dumber these days...

Since when do ppl put a gun in their back pocket while driving? It wouldnt really feel comfortable to drive with a gun in your back pocket anyway. :roll: Most guns cant be hiding thru whole pockets so most can be seen half thru the pocket.
 
Never heard of putting a gun . . . im not sure how to word this, but puting a gun in the back of their pants? there are some people who hide the gun back there.
 
MsGiglz said:
You guys are making sound like Cops are bad..

First of all,

- Cops have rights to defense themselves
- They didnt realized that driver or suspect is deaf, they will go like unsure if suspect is faking to make an excuse to be someone else...

- Like I said.. there have been tenses lately. suspects are jumping or shoot Cops or others.. So thats why Cops are more defenses..

AND.. Like i said. this Cop is rookie, I am sure he havent been in training about deaf/foregin/handicapped how to communciate with..

Also, in Doug's case-- the cop is rookie and was not treated in the police dept that they refused to provided him to make call or an interpreter..

To me.. that police department are covering the rookie's ass cuz he made mistakes.. its more issues are in very tense if you are accusing Cop...

Whats more.. NOT all cops are bad.. they do make mistakes just like we do..
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Where the heck are we coming up with "this cop was a rookie" and "people putting guns down their pants" in relation to this topic?!!!!

If you're not talking about this very issue, take your made up stories elsewhere. Nowhere have I found any articles that state the cop involved in this traffic stop was a rookie; neither have I found anywhere that they suspected that Doug had a gun down his pants. The cops apparently WERE afraid he was drawing a weapon, which doesn't have to be a gun -- it could be a knife, or even mace/pepper spray. It doesn't matter -- you DO NOT move anywhere where the cops cannot see what you are doing!
 
Dennis said:
Where the heck are we coming up with "this cop was a rookie" and "people putting guns down their pants" in relation to this topic?!!!!

If you're not talking about this very issue, take your made up stories elsewhere. Nowhere have I found any articles that state the cop involved in this traffic stop was a rookie; neither have I found anywhere that they suspected that Doug had a gun down his pants. The cops apparently WERE afraid he was drawing a weapon, which doesn't have to be a gun -- it could be a knife, or even mace/pepper spray. It doesn't matter -- you DO NOT move anywhere where the cops cannot see what you are doing!
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I was only speaking of the story that cop was rookie , hes one year veteran.. still new to deaf community that they have training classes.. but I didnt speak about gun down in his pants (doug).. so my post still related to the topic.. and was explaining why or what.. cops in Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota.. lately they have been tense with ppl/suspect.. so my point is.. the news paper clip were talking about that cop who doug got hurt.. cop is a year old veteran, still rookie..
 
MsGiglz said:
I was only speaking of the story that cop was rookie , hes one year veteran.. still new to deaf community that they have training classes.. but I didnt speak about gun down in his pants (doug).. so my post still related to the topic.. and was explaining why or what.. cops in Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota.. lately they have been tense with ppl/suspect.. so my point is.. the news paper clip were talking about that cop who doug got hurt.. cop is a year old veteran, still rookie..
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What article? I have read through several news clips and none mention how many years the cop was on the force. Please give us a link to back up your claim.
 
deaf man claims police beat him

To watch the video, please click the url below



wcco.com - Deaf Man Claims Police Beat Him

Deaf Man Claims Police Beat Him!!!

Dec 8, 2006 11:28 am US/Central

Deaf Man Claims Police Beat Him

Jason DeRusha
Reporting

(WCCO) St. Paul What started as a simple traffic stop, ended with a leader of the Twin Cities deaf community bruised and bloodied. Now, he's accusing St. Paul Police of using excessive force.

Doug Bahl, 56, had never been arrested before. On Nov. 17, just after 5 p.m., Officer Stephen Bobrowski pulled him over for running a red light near Marshall and Finn Streets in St. Paul.

When the officer approached Bahl's car, there was a breakdown in communication.

Bahl describes himself as "profoundly deaf." He does not hear, he does not lip read.

In the criminal complaint, the prosecutor wrote that Bahl "would not speak with the officers. He would shake his head and make a negative gesture" as if saying "no."

Then the prosecutor claims Bahl "grabbed the officer's jacket and pulled the officer to the car." Police said Bahl "punched the officer's left arm" and "bit the officer's thumb."

Because Bahl is charged with obstructing the legal process with force, his attorney doesn't want him to go into detail as to exactly what happened during that traffic stop. His lawyer will only say, that Bahl's version of what happened is "very different" from the police version.

"At that time I was in a lot of pain," Bahl said. "I was bleeding. I had an eye swollen shut and it was blurry at that."

When it comes to his attitude towards the police now, he said, "I continue to feel scared. To be honest, I'm scared."

Bahl's son Chris e-mailed friends after the incident, sharing pictures of his father, bloodied and beaten.

In the e-mail he wrote about the police, "They beat the crap, I mean, the crap out of him."

Bahl is talking about what happened next at the Ramsey County Jail, "As I look back on the piece about being in the jail, it is very painful for me now."

Because Bahl was arrested on a Friday, he didn't go in front of a judge until after the weekend. He was there for nearly four days and he said he had no way to tell his family he was locked up.

Bahl claims deputies wouldn't get him a translator, or let him use a special TTY phone for the hearing-impaired.

"I wrote asking for a TTY and I was told 'no,'" Bahl said. "I felt completely isolated from the world in jail, it was very frustrating."

Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher has a different version of what happened inside the jail.

"He was offered the TTY machine but chose not to use it," Fletcher said "(He) requested access for e-mail. We're not set up for e-mail access in the jail."

Bahl acknowledged he initially asked for e-mail, but he claims he asked for a TTY phone Friday, Saturday and Sunday before he was finally allowed to use one on Monday, Nov. 20.

His girlfriend, Sue Kovacs, thought Bahl was dead. She found out he was in jail, when an another inmate wrote a note, offering to call Bahl's family.

"I looked at the inmates in this instance, as my heroes," said Bahl. "I mean, they opened the door, they gave me that bridge to communication."

Bahl was released from the jail on Nov. 20. When he went for his first appearance in front of a Ramsey County judge, it had to be continued. Bahl's attorney said that's because there was no interpreter at the hearing.

"I was amazed that the court would not provide an interpreter," Bahl said. "I thought in this day and age, the courts were prepared."

Bahl said he's sharing his story, hoping that none of what happened to him, will ever happen again.

"I want to see deaf people feeling safe with police," he said. "And one thing that keeps us safe, is communication. And when communication breaks down, we feel unsafe.

"Right now, I'll tell you, I don't feel safe," he continued. "I don't. And I think it'll take time, because it's a pretty deep feeling."

(© MMVI, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)
 
shel90 said:
We really do not know what happened. If he got aggressive after being blinded by the pepper spray, I cant blame him cuz I would panic big time too. It would be scary to go blind in a unfamiliar situation that is out of my control. If he was aggressive before being sprayed, then that was wrong of him. See what the court says if he goes to trial?
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Exactly....this man relies on his vision for communication. To panic would be a natural reaction. I'm hearing and would probably panic if I were sprayed by pepper spray.
 
I think most officers expect you to reach for the glovebox to retrieve your Insurance and registration papers, and perhaps your back pocket for your wallet to show your DL or your purse if you're a woman.

I personally keep my DL in my cupholder so should I get stopped I dont have to reach down and cause suspicion which can turn a situation from bad to worse if you mean no harm and the officer is a young rookie that is likely to jump the gun.
 
This is why we (deaf people) are often told, when we are pulled over for whatever reason, to just keep our hands on the wheel, wait for the police to come to the window, and then ask for a paper and pen - reaching into your pocket or wherever your information is at, can make the cop think you've got a gun, and it will make for a very bad situation.
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With the exception of the pen and paper part this also applies to hearing people. Folks that are deaf have to understand that police are in fear for their lives when approaching a car even on routine traffic stops.
 
Dixie said:
I think most officers expect you to reach for the glovebox to retrieve your Insurance and registration papers, and perhaps your back pocket for your wallet to show your DL or your purse if you're a woman.
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I would disagree with that. Your best bet is to keep both hands on the wheel in plain sight and wait for instructions at which point you can say you are deaf or ask for pencil and paper.
 
rockdrummer said:
With the exception of the pen and paper part this also applies to hearing people. Folks that are deaf have to understand that police are in fear for their lives when approaching a car even on routine traffic stops.
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This si true. The only exception would be that a hearing person could tell the officer that they were reaching for documentation. There have been cases in the past where a deaf person attempting to sign their explanation was interpreted as making threatening gestures. There have also been cases when a deaf person has attempted to use oral communication and their less than perfect speech was interpreted as a sign that they were drinking or using drugs. I would certainly hope that doesn't happen on a regular basis, but it has happened in the past.
 
That sounds terrible :pissed:

Mind you british cops can be just as bad. 2 years ago they shot this Brizilian guy who was running to catch a train. Just because they thought he was a terrorist.
 
jillio said:
This si true. The only exception would be that a hearing person could tell the officer that they were reaching for documentation. There have been cases in the past where a deaf person attempting to sign their explanation was interpreted as making threatening gestures. There have also been cases when a deaf person has attempted to use oral communication and their less than perfect speech was interpreted as a sign that they were drinking or using drugs. I would certainly hope that doesn't happen on a regular basis, but it has happened in the past.
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That happened to my brother's hoh friend about 15 years ago...he tried to tell the cops using spoken language that he is deaf and needs to read lips. The cops yelled at him to put his hands up and did a whole car and body search. From how it was described, it seemed like a frightful experience for the guy. I guess the cops mistook his speech as a sign of him being drunk or stoned.
 
Those description sound similar to deaf British man in Florida, USA at 5 years ago, I shared my post about him at other thread. :( I know that I has no reason to doubt his story because his story is pretty logical...

I feel really bad for deaf people who are being victim by that police that´s because the police has no patience... but jump too quickly.
 
jillio said:
This si true. The only exception would be that a hearing person could tell the officer that they were reaching for documentation. There have been cases in the past where a deaf person attempting to sign their explanation was interpreted as making threatening gestures. There have also been cases when a deaf person has attempted to use oral communication and their less than perfect speech was interpreted as a sign that they were drinking or using drugs. I would certainly hope that doesn't happen on a regular basis, but it has happened in the past.
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Exactly why at mininum a deaf person should be able to say "Im Deaf" From there the officer at least knows what he is dealing with.. Deaf person gets pulled over and leaves their hands on the wheel in plain sight (just as a hearing person is expected to) and when the officer gets to the car the first thing the deaf person says "I'm deaf". From there things should go much smoother but make no mistake the officer still has his guard up as he should and as he does with hearing people too. Just because someone is deaf doesn't mean they don't pose a potential threat to the officer. And you also must consider why the person was pulled over in the first place. That will also have an impact on the officers actions just as it would with a hearing person. Being deaf doesn't entitle you to a free pass especially if you have broken the law.
 
rockdrummer said:
Exactly why at mininum a deaf person should be able to say "Im Deaf" From there the officer at least knows what he is dealing with.. Deaf person gets pulled over and leaves their hands on the wheel in plain sight (just as a hearing person is expected to) and when the officer gets to the car the first thing the deaf person says "I'm deaf". From there things should go much smoother but make no mistake the officer still has his guard up as he should and as he does with hearing people too. Just because someone is deaf doesn't mean they don't pose a potential threat to the officer. And you also must consider why the person was pulled over in the first place. That will also have an impact on the officers actions just as it would with a hearing person. Being deaf doesn't entitle you to a free pass especially if you have broken the law.
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And, if the deaf person says "I'm deaf" but is unable to articulate clearly, the officer can mistake the less than perfect articulation as a sign of driving while intoxicated. That was my point.
 
jillio said:
And, if the deaf person says "I'm deaf" but is unable to articulate clearly, the officer can mistake the less than perfect articulation as a sign of driving while intoxicated. That was my point.
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There is nothing wrong with an officer doing that as long as he follows through on his hunch. Intoxication has many indicators. Not just a slurred speech.
 
rockdrummer said:
There is nothing wrong with an officer doing that as long as he follows through on his hunch. Intoxication has many indicators. Not just a slurred speech.
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And the first thing the officer willdo when following on his hunch is to remove the deaf individual fromthe vehicle and hand cuff them behind their back. What would you suppose the reaction of a signing deaf person would be to have their hands restrained? Especially in light of the fact that their attempts at speech are not understood?
 
jillio said:
And the first thing the officer willdo when following on his hunch is to remove the deaf individual fromthe vehicle and hand cuff them behind their back. What would you suppose the reaction of a signing deaf person would be to have their hands restrained? Especially in light of the fact that their attempts at speech are not understood?
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I would consider that speculation. Most of the time the officers put people in cuffs as a matter of protection for themselves. I don't know that they generally do that in routine traffic stops. It really depends on the particular law that was broken. Having said that I am sure in some areas the cops might be more forceful than in others. I believe it depends on the particular area and crime rates etc. I would suggest that if a deaf person is in that situation that they remain calm and re-iterate their deafness. Most cops are pretty understanding but again, this depends on the particular law that was broken.
 
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