Excessive Force Used By Police When Pulling Over a Local Deaf Man

I do agree with other Minnesotans here. I also do know the sheriff, and I also heard that Ramsey County stinks at access to deaf people, expect they did get interpreter for me for a few political events such as County Commissioner's swearing in ceremony, but what about if deaf people got arrested and thrown in Ramsey County Jail, so I figure that they stink at getting interpreter for judicial stuff. It doesn't make any sense. I am not sure about Hennepin County (where Minneapolis is located at).

My mom saw the WCCO news as well, so I did too.. My mom said that they could get in big trouble for violating ADA law. My mom is on Doug's side as well altough she don't know who he is.
 
The situation should have been handled very differently in many ways. Yes the police do have a right to protect themselves. But NOT beat the poor guy regardless. That was police brutality right then & there. They could have drawn their gun or pepper spray to warn him, he didn't even get that. Also could've Watched him a little more closely & even just stop him from reaching for his pocket. Deaf or not. We all have to reach into our pocket rather be front or back to get them your driver's license & then your registration from the glove box. Had it been a gun, once they've checked the license plate they would have known if he was registered to have a gun or not. Although, I do know that doesn't always mean they know if someone in the car has one or not. But damn there was just no sense in that period. Wouldn't be surprised if the officer lost his job on that one & sent to prison for it.
 
I do not feel bad for this deaf man. U and I do not have to agree with this. I am for cops and I am not for any lawbreakers.

well my uncle was a retired cop of Boston area and I am not for any lawbreakers either. I still have a nitemare with cops who pulled me over several years ago (back in '95). My case was solved immediately afterward bec my dear friend's cousin who is a lawyer proved the cops' unacceptable behavior. I've no longer trust in cops ever since. If you are hearing or Deaf and speak clearly then you are the lucky ones. I am rooting for Douglas Bahl.
 
Maybe, the cops are lying.

Maybe, the deaf man is lying.

I have seen cases where people who are strong advocates for certain cultures... do something to the extreme to prove something else that's a lie.

I knew a gal who was loved by everyone. However, she wasn't willing to let her boyfriend go. So, she actually beat herself up to make her boyfriend stay with her. No one knew this until me and a couple friends saw it.

I knew a student here who was a strong advocate of deaf pride. I went to a restaurant and saw that he was there too. There was a small problem and the manager was dealing with it appropriately. However, this guy was refusing to cooperate with the manager and acting like the manager wasn't helping him at all. That same manager had communicated with me properly earlier that night (cuz I had a burnt steak). Unfortunately, there were witnesses who saw this incident. Some of these witnesses were interpreters and knew what the manager was trying to do. So, people realized that this guy was a liar.

Again, the deaf man probably was beaten for no reason. Maybe, he did start it. Who knows.
 
Maybe, the cops are lying.

Maybe, the deaf man is lying.

I have seen cases where people who are strong advocates for certain cultures... do something to the extreme to prove something else that's a lie.

I knew a gal who was loved by everyone. However, she wasn't willing to let her boyfriend go. So, she actually beat herself up to make her boyfriend stay with her. No one knew this until me and a couple friends saw it.

I knew a student here who was a strong advocate of deaf pride. I went to a restaurant and saw that he was there too. There was a small problem and the manager was dealing with it appropriately. However, this guy was refusing to cooperate with the manager and acting like the manager wasn't helping him at all. That same manager had communicated with me properly earlier that night (cuz I had a burnt steak). Unfortunately, there were witnesses who saw this incident. Some of these witnesses were interpreters and knew what the manager was trying to do. So, people realized that this guy was a liar.

Again, the deaf man probably was beaten for no reason. Maybe, he did start it. Who knows.

I don't think Doug would be a lair person, I know him. He is very honest person I ever know. He is very bright man. I believe Doug will win for sure.
 
Damn! Beating Doug by a police officer really piss me off. Beating is wrong!!! Hope Doug is recovering from his injury. Hope Doug and police officers wrote back and fourth to each other after Doug got arrested. All Police Acamedies or Police Departments should provide ASL and Deaf culture sessions. However, one of my Deaf friend taught Police officers ASL and Deaf culture at San Diego Police Department for 2 years. That's great!

I got pulled over once in Seattle and put my hands on a steering wheel until a police officer approach me. I told the cop that I am deaf. A cop asked me if I can readlip. I answered yes. A cop explained to me slowly, what was happened. I understood what he said. We worked out fine.
 
more recent update news..

St. Paul Pioneer Press | 12/09/2006 | Deaf man says jail experience traumatic

Deaf man says jail experience traumatic
He wanted to contact worried girlfriend
BY MARA H. GOTTFRIED
Pioneer Press
In the 54 years Doug Bahl has been deaf, he said he never faced discrimination before he wound up in the Ramsey County Jail.

Stories about St. Paul police allegedly roughing up Bahl and photos showing Bahl with black eyes and blood on his shirt have been circulating for weeks by e-mail, but it was Bahl's account of what happened at the jail that he was talking about Friday.

"It was a very painful, very traumatic experience for me," said Bahl, a St. Paul College instructor and longtime deaf activist. "I can't begin to describe to you how discouraging and how demeaning it was."

Bahl ended up in the jail after police pulled him over Nov. 17 for allegedly going through a red light.

Bahl hit an officer on the arm and bit his thumb, according to a criminal complaint charging Bahl with obstructing the legal process with force. Police sprayed Bahl with a chemical irritant, a police report said.

Rick Macpherson, an attorney with the Minnesota Disability Law Center, said Bahl's "incident with a police officer … resulted in Mr. Bahl being very seriously beaten." But because charges are pending against Bahl, Macpherson said, neither he nor Bahl would be discussing the police matter now.

Police have launched an investigation into the arrest and aren't commenting while it runs its course, a spokesman said.

Bahl, who is 56 and became deaf at age 2 after a high fever, said he made repeated requests for an interpreter at the jail but didn't get one. Macpherson said state law is clear about a jail's responsibilities. "Thou shall provide interpreters," he said. "Period."

Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher said he believes the statute in question applies to the arresting agency. No matter the case, he said the sheriff's office has a contract with interpreters.

Fletcher has launched an investigation to try to find out what happened at the jail.

"We're taking the matter very seriously," Fletcher said.

Bahl said he asked to send an e-mail to his girlfriend, who also is deaf, on Nov. 17, but was denied. The jail doesn't allow inmates to use computers, Fletcher said.

Next, Bahl said he asked to use a special TTY telephone. Bahl said he was told he could use one the next day, a Saturday. That didn't happen, and Bahl said he inquired again but wasn't given access to a TTY phone until Nov. 20, not long before he was released from jail.

Fletcher said preliminary information shows Bahl was offered a TTY phone Nov. 17, but he didn't use it then.

"If he wanted to use TTY on Saturday or Sunday, he should have been allowed to," Fletcher said.

Macpherson said Bahl's ordeal wasn't the first time he has heard of problems at the Ramsey County Jail. Ten months earlier, a deaf woman also couldn't get access to a TTY phone or interpreter, he said. Fletcher said he wasn't aware of that complaint.

One of the worst parts of the experience, according to Bahl, was not being able to contact his family to tell them where he was.

When Bahl was arrested, he had been on the way to visit Sue Kovacs, his girlfriend of eight years, who was hospitalized for a blood clot.

"I was sure that someone had harmed him," Kovacs said. She checked local hospitals, called St. Paul police to find out whether he had been in an accident and wanted to make a missing person report.

On Nov. 19, an inmate offered to call the hospital on Bahl's behalf to get a message to Kovacs.

"I look at that person as sort of my hero, in the sense that it was the guards, it was the police, it was the people involved in law enforcement, who I expected to properly afford me my rights and to know about the laws, who were unwilling to allow me a call," Bahl said.

Mara H. Gottfried can be reached at mgottfried@pioneerpress.com or 651-228-5262.
 
:mad: It makes me [bleep] sad! Because of Doug Bahl. I felt damn very-very
bad for him. :(

My sister is a student of college with
her teacher. Wow, that was suprising! I don't think I did met him? :dunno: I am uncertainly until I would know.

Anyways, a cop should be known-well with deaf community; deaf and hard-of-hearing; and deaf culture! I want a cop is getting humilated when
he would getting fired. I not feel safer around this cop! :ugh:

I always hoping for this cop will throw in the prison that he beating Doug Bahl, so, I would say that
I hope they will apologize to Doug Bahl!
God bless Doug Bahl. God would never bless this cop!! :mad:

I hope Doug should be won in the court! I hope Doug Bahl
would be 100% not guilty!
 
Maybe, the cops are lying.

Maybe, the deaf man is lying.

I have seen cases where people who are strong advocates for certain cultures... do something to the extreme to prove something else that's a lie.

I knew a gal who was loved by everyone. However, she wasn't willing to let her boyfriend go. So, she actually beat herself up to make her boyfriend stay with her. No one knew this until me and a couple friends saw it.

I knew a student here who was a strong advocate of deaf pride. I went to a restaurant and saw that he was there too. There was a small problem and the manager was dealing with it appropriately. However, this guy was refusing to cooperate with the manager and acting like the manager wasn't helping him at all. That same manager had communicated with me properly earlier that night (cuz I had a burnt steak). Unfortunately, there were witnesses who saw this incident. Some of these witnesses were interpreters and knew what the manager was trying to do. So, people realized that this guy was a liar.

Again, the deaf man probably was beaten for no reason. Maybe, he did start it. Who knows.

I would want to say that about a deaf man isn't lying!
I believe a cop is LIAR, because a cop is bad!
Because he never did a crime been before; he is a good teacher;
honestly; and nonetheless about his rebellous, that is my opinion for
him. I did trust Doug Bahl. Not a cop!
 
Nothing new - sorry to say :(

Very sad to see a photo of him in my email letter today.

I wish him a speedy recovery.


That's only happen in USA!!!

Police stop me in Australia before, and in front of him, I went to my glove box to pick up pen and paper to start communicate with him, he don't shot me for that!!

Sorry, excuse me. I forget to say, I am stupid sometimes to me, now I would say it,
"I wish him a speed recovery!" Thank you
for letting a know about these pop-up words.
 
How naive! Get a clue! There are many places in the world they will do worst than what what these cops did to Bahl. This is not to justify what they did to him and the news does not convey all the information accurately. Eventually, the truth will come out and clarify the situation.

Touchy touchy,

Whew, talk about defensive!!!!!

Think you need to "get a clue yourself" It is this sort of aggresive attitude that frightens the police.

Maybe I should have said, only in America would this happen and then be published to the world!!!!!!
 
Rachel can blow her big
bxp142564.jpg

at the issue for us :)

Richard
 
About Cops in Australia. Over here, our cops don't beat up deaf ppl and/or any people for no reason. I have never heard any deaf people get beaten up by the cops here in Australia. If the police do, they could be sacked for it, that's if there is no reason for it and with proof from the public. Our police are more softer & friendly than the American police as they are more heavy handed.
About the guns, we have a strict gun laws and not everyone own a gun unlike in America they can get guns easily. If we want a gun, we have to give a very good reason why we want to own a gun. It is mostly the farmers and people in the gun/pistol club can get them. The rule here are very strict. The police knows that not everyone in Australia owns a gun and there is no need for the police to point a gun at us. It would be unfair for our police to point the gun at us just for a small thing like speeding,drunk driving or for theft. They only use the gun if they believe they are in danger.

About the deaf guy got beat up by the cops, I hope he will get better soon. The police in the area where he got beat up should learn about deaf awareness so they can communicate with the deaf more better.
 
Just to dispel any confusion here, when I mention Rachel I mean Rachel as in the racheleggert screen name not anyone else.

There happens to be a lady here, another Rachel, that needs to take a chill pill.

Richard
 
well my uncle was a retired cop of Boston area and I am not for any lawbreakers either. I still have a nitemare with cops who pulled me over several years ago (back in '95). My case was solved immediately afterward bec my dear friend's cousin who is a lawyer proved the cops' unacceptable behavior. I've no longer trust in cops ever since. If you are hearing or Deaf and speak clearly then you are the lucky ones. I am rooting for Douglas Bahl.
Nope I am worst deaf and not bright as Doug and I do not act aggressive as many deafies I know of. Sorry but u have to remember too many people out there are on drugs and they are very dangerous which make so difficult jobs for cops nowdays than it was back then. We had one cop so friendly here and he was brutely murdered by a man whom he thought he was so harmless. He was dragged around by this man's truck then chopped his head off and put in the bucket and drop it off at dead cop's house for his wife to see him dead. Now u know why I do not trust anyone people and I am for cops. so if this deaf man got beat up because he was one of alike I know many deafies who want to get away without getting ticket by demanding an interpter sorry that is crock since I do fine with cops even I do not talk nor read lips. I learned how to survive in this hearing world so he should have if he is saying he is so nice and mature but he embarrased rest of deaf world. I am so shame to be part of this.
 
Nope I am worst deaf and not bright as Doug and I do not act aggressive as many deafies I know of. Sorry but u have to remember too many people out there are on drugs and they are very dangerous which make so difficult jobs for cops nowdays than it was back then. We had one cop so friendly here and he was brutely murdered by a man whom he thought he was so harmless. He was dragged around by this man's truck then chopped his head off and put in the bucket and drop it off at dead cop's house for his wife to see him dead. Now u know why I do not trust anyone people and I am for cops. so if this deaf man got beat up because he was one of alike I know many deafies who want to get away without getting ticket by demanding an interpter sorry that is crock since I do fine with cops even I do not talk nor read lips. I learned how to survive in this hearing world so he should have if he is saying he is so nice and mature but he embarrased rest of deaf world. I am so shame to be part of this.

You remind me of Heath ....
 
Touchy touchy,

Whew, talk about defensive!!!!!

You made an inane statement and I called you on it. If you call that defensive, so be it.

Think you need to "get a clue yourself" It is this sort of aggresive attitude that frightens the police.

Defensiveness goes both ways and this is the definition of it.

As for aggressive, ummm...and frightening police...*rolling eyes*... at least give the police more credit than you give them.

Maybe I should have said, only in America would this happen and then be published to the world!!!!!!

Much better way to phrase it and I would be the first to agree with you.
 
i am mad at st. paul police!

i am not sure if i know doug from msad. i went msad for about 6 weeks. my cousin tim hile has told me that doug got beat up by st. paul police, i got pissed because i dont trust any city police at all. most time county sheriff are better than city police. like minneapolis police has beat up too many people, too many minneapolis police got fired, suspended, too many lawsuit from people. now st. paul police is following minneapolis police feet. so it seem that we are no longer safe anymore. we got to do something about it. i dont know how or what. but we need to do something to wake them up that we are not different. we are people, human being, a person. only thing that we are different is our language nothing else....cant they even see that? i born deaf too. i live in plymouth and plymouth police are much better because they are more calm down and clean. i refuse live in minneapolis now i also will not live in st paul after what they did to doug. i wonder, what can i do to help to get those 16 cops to be terminated from their job? let me know...brian
 
This thread still pisses me off because police need to go back to school to learn more about the deaf culture and about the ADA law plus they should be required to learn sign language. They shouldn't beat up a deaf man because of assumements! :mad:
 
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