Ex. Prez Carter Says Racism Factor In Opposition To Obama.

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I know there are racist people, but healthcare is not a race issue. They probably spill out race slur just like how a hearing person get mad at deaf people and spill out deaf slur (just like what I was seeing in buttkiss' thread because we have to make a good impression toward hearing people so we deaf people would be well respected by the hearing community)
 
Well What a buncg of crock...

It never seizes to amaze me how people tend to twist and turn things for their own purpose. He called the president a liar, because he is a liar. Just because he disagrees with your beloved president there must be something wrong with him-he's a racist. I bet most of you calling this guy a racist also hated Palin, called her a liar and said she was unfit for being president. using your same logic that makes you a sexist and guess what most of you who are sexist are women.

Do you want to really get rid of racism-stop calling everyone racist because they disagree with the "African American" Get rid of the "African" in "African Amercian" get rid of Al Sharpton-they only serve to fuels the fire. Slavery was abolished many years ago-None of us living have had anything to do with it, why should we have to keep paying for the few idiots who caused the problem in the first place?

There will always be few stupid people, racist, sexist, discrimination. We can't live in fear because of them otherwise we will become so frozen in fear nothign will happen-good or bad. "Politiclly Correct" is good but don't over do it people.

Carter is wrong, he was a bad president this is something he knows, and he is trying desperatly to clear up his name before he dies. in other words he wants to go down in the history books with a better name. There is no other purpose for what he is doing and if Obama disagrees with him then let it be. Quit trying to be a fearmongerer for cr ying out loud.
 
Friday, October 24, 2008

CHENNAI, India — This is not how Jay Tronson pictured the hospital. In photos online — though maybe he was looking at pictures of the wrong hospital — he saw a modern glass structure sitting on a grassy hilltop, not this older building crammed into an busy neighborhood.

As he walks into the crowded, noisy lobby of Apollo Speciality Hospital, he tries to stay focused on the fact that he will be operated on by a well-regarded surgeon, that the reason he traveled here from Pearland, near Houston, is to end the pain in his hip.

"As long as the operating room is sterile and the doctors are competent, I don't really care" what the hospital looks like, he says, leaning on his cane.

In the lobby, a hospital staffer is waiting to whisk him up the elevator to the fourth floor, past a nurses' station and through double doors under a sign that says "Platinum Ward."

Suddenly, the slightly sour smell gives way to a sweeter aroma. Elevator music plays. There are leather couches and an aquarium. He walks into his hospital room, which includes a flat-screen TV and a laptop.

This is where the foreigners stay. He is pleasantly surprised — and relieved.

A recent report estimates that hundreds of thousands of Americans go abroad each year for medical procedures, primarily to save money.

They are not the only ones eyeing the bottom line. Some U.S. insurance companies — including Aetna and UnitedHealthcare — are considering paying for patients to go overseas for care, which could spark major growth in the medical travel industry. Wockhardt Hospitals officials said major insurers are requesting data that show how well the Indian company's hospitals treat patients, a sign that the insurers are investigating options in India.

"I don't know where this will stop," said Dr. Kushagra Katariya, a cardiothoracic surgeon and CEO of Artemis Health Institute in Gurgaon , near New Delhi.

Quests for care

Medical tourism isn't new. For decades, people from around the world have come to Houston, for example, in search of good doctors. Americans have long traveled within their country for specialized care — take U.S. Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., who went to North Carolina for surgery on a brain tumor.

And the American health care industry, like many businesses, is already outsourcing functions like reading X-rays to overseas providers.

Now, more and more Americans are traveling to countries like Singapore, Thailand and Costa Rica for medical procedures that are cheaper there than at home. Sometimes, they don't have insurance; sometimes, their insurance doesn't cover what they need.

"The American health care system has pushed itself into a corner where even the most routine care is not financially accessible for the average family," said Dr. Steven Tucker, an oncologist in Singapore who is president of the International Medical Travel Association, a nonprofit group of health care providers and medical travel agents.

Estimates on the number of medical tourists vary widely and depend on how the term is defined. A new report by the Deloitte Center for Health Solutions, a research arm of the accounting firm Deloitte LLP, says that 750,000 Americans traveled abroad for medical care in 2007. Meanwhile, Josef Woodman, author of the consumer guide "Patients Beyond Borders," puts the 2007 number closer to 180,000.

The global consulting firm McKinsey & Co. released a study in May that said the trend is far smaller than commonly reported. It put the number of all medical travelers — not just Americans — at 60,000 to 85,000 per year. But that study, unlike the Deloitte one, used a definition of medical travel that does not include people who get outpatient procedures or go to neighboring countries for care.

A November 2007 report by the Dallas-based National Center for Policy Analysis, a nonpartisan research institute, said India "arguably has the lowest cost and highest quality of all medical tourism destinations, and English is widely spoken."

Almost everything that hospitals need is cheaper in India, including labor. Nurses earn $2 an hour "if they're lucky," Katariya said. They earn $1.60 an hour at Artemis.

In "Patients Beyond Borders," Woodman says that if the estimated out-of-pocket cost of treatment in the United States — including consultation, procedure and hospital stay — is $6,000 or more, "you'll probably save money traveling abroad for your care. If it's less than $6,000, you're better off having your treatment at home."

Traveling long distances for medical care isn't right for every patient or procedure, said Dr. Charles Cutler, who recently retired as medical director of Aetna's national accounts. For example, he said, you wouldn't want to put someone with significant heart disease on a long flight.

"You can come down to a fairly short list of things that make sense," Cutler said. Joint replacements would be on the list because they're a one-time procedure, he said, but treatment for chronic ailments would not.

'Willing to innovate'

Some people who have health insurance can already travel overseas for care as part of their health plan.

One example is Hannaford, a self-insured grocery chain in New England and New York whose health plan is administered by Aetna. This year, in what Aetna calls a pilot program, Hannaford started giving employees the option of going to National University Hospital in Singapore for knee and hip replacements. Hannaford will waive the co-payment, saving the employee $2,500 to $3,000. Hannaford will also pay for the plane ticket.

No one has gone to Singapore yet, and Hannaford spokesman Michael Norton said the company is hoping that the program will stimulate competition to reduce the price difference between U.S. hospitals and the Singapore hospital.

"We're willing to innovate to make it clear there is a barrier to employers in terms of getting the quality and the cost that they need," Norton said.

BlueCross BlueShield of South Carolina has a wholly owned subsidiary called Companion Global Healthcare Inc. that has a network of 10 hospitals in Costa Rica, India, Ireland, Singapore, Thailand and Turkey. Companion has been serving patients from self-insured employers — companies like Hannaford that fund their employee health plans — as well as people who have BlueCross BlueShield health insurance and need a procedure that is not covered because the condition was pre-existing.

Companion President David Boucher said that in the future, BlueCross BlueShield of South Carolina and other insurance companies will encourage emplyees of fully insured companies — those that pay health insurance companies to cover their employees — to go overseas by offering a reduced co-payment or deductible.

"I'm fairly bullish on where I think this is going," Boucher said. "I think we'll begin seeing actual changes in that benefit structure for BlueCross groups come January." He stressed that BlueCross wants to offer options, not force a patient to go overseas.

Last year, the Texas Legislature passed a bill that made it illegal for insurance companies to mandate that patients go overseas for care. The bill's author, state Sen. Carlos Uresti , D-San Antonio , said that medical travel raises too many questions about continuity of care, liability, language barriers and what happens if a patient dies overseas.

"I'm sure it's a beautiful country," Uresti said of India. "But if I were to have to have surgery -- I wouldn't want to have to travel to a foreign country. I don't think it's fair to put our consumers in that position where they're required to go."

A dose of skepticism

Some insurance companies are also skeptical about medical tourism. Humana, for example, does not pay for treatments abroad, spokeswoman Anna Hobbs said . "We find that there's difficulty determining quality standards for physicians and hospitals abroad," she said.

Standards can vary widely from hospital to hospital. The Joint Commission International — an affiliate of the organization that inspects U.S. hospitals that receive Medicare dollars — checks everything from whether hospital workers wash their hands to how hospitals procure, secure and administer medication.

The Joint Commission International is so well-respected that some medical travel companies work only with hospitals that the organization has accredited — about 200 worldwide, including 10 in India.

American Medical Association President-elect Dr. James Rohack of Bryan said, "If I'm going to travel internationally and I get sick, I'm going to look for a Joint Commission-accredited hospital."

However, Paul Keckley , executive director of the Deloitte Center for Health Solutions and the author of a recent report on medical tourism, said Joint Commission accreditation isn't performed with "the same intensity" overseas as it is in the United States.

Dr. David Jaimovich , chief medical officer of the commission, disputed that, saying that quality standards for foreign hospitals are comparable to those in the U.S.

India churns out more than 40,000 new medical professionals each year, and many of the top graduates emigrate. More than 23,000 Indian doctors practice in the United States, according to the forthcoming "Patients Beyond Borders: India Edition."

"There is a huge group of Indian clinicians who have become very successful in the Western world," said Vishal Bali, CEO of Wockhardt Hospitals. "There is a familiarity which is already there" with Indian doctors.

Keckley said insurance companies might be more tempted by medical tourism than they're willing to admit.

"What will happen is the plans will tiptoe into this," Keckley said. "Plans are fearful of saying, 'We're going to invest some money.' The minute that's in the press, every local hospital, every local doctor says, 'Over my dead body.' "

Like Boucher, Keckley sees the trend growing exponentially — unless there's a "major blowup," he said. "The thing that could really derail this is if one person came back disfigured from a botched procedure somewhere and it got in the newspaper -- and health plans backed off."

Tronson's wife, Delia Williams-Tronson, says a botched procedure is exactly what she fears most for her husband.

In Tronson's hospital room, a staff member checks him in, and another takes him down the hall to be weighed. The scale reads 88, which sounds wrong until he realizes that it's in kilograms. He's confused when the nurses keep calling him "Jay Alfred," his first and middle names.

The next morning, he's wheeled out of the Platinum Ward and toward the operating room.

Source: U.S. insurers consider sending patients overseas for cheaper treatment

This is one of many and insurance companies are finding this very appealing, cheap for patients and cheap for the pockets of insurers.

Yiz
 
Again, no one is stating that healthcare is a racist issue, although if one studies the availability if healthcare in this country, there are definately disparities in availablity that can be divided racially. One is simply saying that a significant portion of the protestors have racial bias and that is the fuel that increases the intensity and the nature of their protests. Did anyone see the same type of protests going on when Clinton proposed much the same type of reform? How about when FDR proposed the same type of reform? Did we see pics of Clinton protrayed as Hitler, and cries of communism taking over the country? Or are pics of witch doctors and signs regarding Marxism typical only for the Obama administration?

Wilson was not labeled a racist, but it was implied that he harbors some degree of racially stereotypical attitudes. He most certainly wasn't called a racist because he called the president of the United States a liar in the middle of a joint address to congress. He was called rude, out of line, childish, and guilty of conduct unbecoming of an elected official because he called the President a liar. All of those are quite true.
 
Methinks the man doth protest too much.
 
That's what education does to you, The read about communism and don't like what they are seeing.

as far as Clinton, people did not have the internet at the time.

As we get on the internet, we read more and more about politics. I never heard of Marxism until I had the internet. I never really knew much about the Nazi or anything like that either. Those things aren't really discussed in school.
 
Friday, October 24, 2008

CHENNAI, India — This is not how Jay Tronson pictured the hospital. In photos online — though maybe he was looking at pictures of the wrong hospital — he saw a modern glass structure sitting on a grassy hilltop, not this older building crammed into an busy neighborhood.

As he walks into the crowded, noisy lobby of Apollo Speciality Hospital, he tries to stay focused on the fact that he will be operated on by a well-regarded surgeon, that the reason he traveled here from Pearland, near Houston, is to end the pain in his hip.

"As long as the operating room is sterile and the doctors are competent, I don't really care" what the hospital looks like, he says, leaning on his cane.

In the lobby, a hospital staffer is waiting to whisk him up the elevator to the fourth floor, past a nurses' station and through double doors under a sign that says "Platinum Ward."

Suddenly, the slightly sour smell gives way to a sweeter aroma. Elevator music plays. There are leather couches and an aquarium. He walks into his hospital room, which includes a flat-screen TV and a laptop.

This is where the foreigners stay. He is pleasantly surprised — and relieved.

A recent report estimates that hundreds of thousands of Americans go abroad each year for medical procedures, primarily to save money.

They are not the only ones eyeing the bottom line. Some U.S. insurance companies — including Aetna and UnitedHealthcare — are considering paying for patients to go overseas for care, which could spark major growth in the medical travel industry. Wockhardt Hospitals officials said major insurers are requesting data that show how well the Indian company's hospitals treat patients, a sign that the insurers are investigating options in India.

"I don't know where this will stop," said Dr. Kushagra Katariya, a cardiothoracic surgeon and CEO of Artemis Health Institute in Gurgaon , near New Delhi.

Quests for care

Medical tourism isn't new. For decades, people from around the world have come to Houston, for example, in search of good doctors. Americans have long traveled within their country for specialized care — take U.S. Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., who went to North Carolina for surgery on a brain tumor.

And the American health care industry, like many businesses, is already outsourcing functions like reading X-rays to overseas providers.

Now, more and more Americans are traveling to countries like Singapore, Thailand and Costa Rica for medical procedures that are cheaper there than at home. Sometimes, they don't have insurance; sometimes, their insurance doesn't cover what they need.

"The American health care system has pushed itself into a corner where even the most routine care is not financially accessible for the average family," said Dr. Steven Tucker, an oncologist in Singapore who is president of the International Medical Travel Association, a nonprofit group of health care providers and medical travel agents.

Estimates on the number of medical tourists vary widely and depend on how the term is defined. A new report by the Deloitte Center for Health Solutions, a research arm of the accounting firm Deloitte LLP, says that 750,000 Americans traveled abroad for medical care in 2007. Meanwhile, Josef Woodman, author of the consumer guide "Patients Beyond Borders," puts the 2007 number closer to 180,000.

The global consulting firm McKinsey & Co. released a study in May that said the trend is far smaller than commonly reported. It put the number of all medical travelers — not just Americans — at 60,000 to 85,000 per year. But that study, unlike the Deloitte one, used a definition of medical travel that does not include people who get outpatient procedures or go to neighboring countries for care.

A November 2007 report by the Dallas-based National Center for Policy Analysis, a nonpartisan research institute, said India "arguably has the lowest cost and highest quality of all medical tourism destinations, and English is widely spoken."

Almost everything that hospitals need is cheaper in India, including labor. Nurses earn $2 an hour "if they're lucky," Katariya said. They earn $1.60 an hour at Artemis.

In "Patients Beyond Borders," Woodman says that if the estimated out-of-pocket cost of treatment in the United States — including consultation, procedure and hospital stay — is $6,000 or more, "you'll probably save money traveling abroad for your care. If it's less than $6,000, you're better off having your treatment at home."

Traveling long distances for medical care isn't right for every patient or procedure, said Dr. Charles Cutler, who recently retired as medical director of Aetna's national accounts. For example, he said, you wouldn't want to put someone with significant heart disease on a long flight.

"You can come down to a fairly short list of things that make sense," Cutler said. Joint replacements would be on the list because they're a one-time procedure, he said, but treatment for chronic ailments would not.

'Willing to innovate'

Some people who have health insurance can already travel overseas for care as part of their health plan.

One example is Hannaford, a self-insured grocery chain in New England and New York whose health plan is administered by Aetna. This year, in what Aetna calls a pilot program, Hannaford started giving employees the option of going to National University Hospital in Singapore for knee and hip replacements. Hannaford will waive the co-payment, saving the employee $2,500 to $3,000. Hannaford will also pay for the plane ticket.

No one has gone to Singapore yet, and Hannaford spokesman Michael Norton said the company is hoping that the program will stimulate competition to reduce the price difference between U.S. hospitals and the Singapore hospital.

"We're willing to innovate to make it clear there is a barrier to employers in terms of getting the quality and the cost that they need," Norton said.

BlueCross BlueShield of South Carolina has a wholly owned subsidiary called Companion Global Healthcare Inc. that has a network of 10 hospitals in Costa Rica, India, Ireland, Singapore, Thailand and Turkey. Companion has been serving patients from self-insured employers — companies like Hannaford that fund their employee health plans — as well as people who have BlueCross BlueShield health insurance and need a procedure that is not covered because the condition was pre-existing.

Companion President David Boucher said that in the future, BlueCross BlueShield of South Carolina and other insurance companies will encourage emplyees of fully insured companies — those that pay health insurance companies to cover their employees — to go overseas by offering a reduced co-payment or deductible.

"I'm fairly bullish on where I think this is going," Boucher said. "I think we'll begin seeing actual changes in that benefit structure for BlueCross groups come January." He stressed that BlueCross wants to offer options, not force a patient to go overseas.

Last year, the Texas Legislature passed a bill that made it illegal for insurance companies to mandate that patients go overseas for care. The bill's author, state Sen. Carlos Uresti , D-San Antonio , said that medical travel raises too many questions about continuity of care, liability, language barriers and what happens if a patient dies overseas.

"I'm sure it's a beautiful country," Uresti said of India. "But if I were to have to have surgery -- I wouldn't want to have to travel to a foreign country. I don't think it's fair to put our consumers in that position where they're required to go."

A dose of skepticism

Some insurance companies are also skeptical about medical tourism. Humana, for example, does not pay for treatments abroad, spokeswoman Anna Hobbs said . "We find that there's difficulty determining quality standards for physicians and hospitals abroad," she said.

Standards can vary widely from hospital to hospital. The Joint Commission International — an affiliate of the organization that inspects U.S. hospitals that receive Medicare dollars — checks everything from whether hospital workers wash their hands to how hospitals procure, secure and administer medication.

The Joint Commission International is so well-respected that some medical travel companies work only with hospitals that the organization has accredited — about 200 worldwide, including 10 in India.

American Medical Association President-elect Dr. James Rohack of Bryan said, "If I'm going to travel internationally and I get sick, I'm going to look for a Joint Commission-accredited hospital."

However, Paul Keckley , executive director of the Deloitte Center for Health Solutions and the author of a recent report on medical tourism, said Joint Commission accreditation isn't performed with "the same intensity" overseas as it is in the United States.

Dr. David Jaimovich , chief medical officer of the commission, disputed that, saying that quality standards for foreign hospitals are comparable to those in the U.S.

India churns out more than 40,000 new medical professionals each year, and many of the top graduates emigrate. More than 23,000 Indian doctors practice in the United States, according to the forthcoming "Patients Beyond Borders: India Edition."

"There is a huge group of Indian clinicians who have become very successful in the Western world," said Vishal Bali, CEO of Wockhardt Hospitals. "There is a familiarity which is already there" with Indian doctors.

Keckley said insurance companies might be more tempted by medical tourism than they're willing to admit.

"What will happen is the plans will tiptoe into this," Keckley said. "Plans are fearful of saying, 'We're going to invest some money.' The minute that's in the press, every local hospital, every local doctor says, 'Over my dead body.' "

Like Boucher, Keckley sees the trend growing exponentially — unless there's a "major blowup," he said. "The thing that could really derail this is if one person came back disfigured from a botched procedure somewhere and it got in the newspaper -- and health plans backed off."

Tronson's wife, Delia Williams-Tronson, says a botched procedure is exactly what she fears most for her husband.

In Tronson's hospital room, a staff member checks him in, and another takes him down the hall to be weighed. The scale reads 88, which sounds wrong until he realizes that it's in kilograms. He's confused when the nurses keep calling him "Jay Alfred," his first and middle names.

The next morning, he's wheeled out of the Platinum Ward and toward the operating room.

Source: U.S. insurers consider sending patients overseas for cheaper treatment

This is one of many and insurance companies are finding this very appealing, cheap for patients and cheap for the pockets of insurers.

Yiz

No where does it state that insurance companies are paying to fly patients to other countries. Outsourcing things like the reading of x-rays does not require travel on behalf of the patient or the doctor.

This is an article about people who are without insurance or their insurance not covering what they need in the U.S. making the individual decision to travel to another country and pay out of pocket for health care. Just another good example of why we need health care reform.
 
No where does it state that insurance companies are paying to fly patients to other countries. Outsourcing things like the reading of x-rays does not require travel on behalf of the patient or the doctor.

This is an article about people who are without insurance or their insurance not covering what they need in the U.S. making the individual decision to travel to another country and pay out of pocket for health care. Just another good example of why we need health care reform.

Uh, how can insurance companies send uninsured people overseas for surgeries? :roll:

Yiz
 
Go back and read some history. Remember McCarthy? A communist behind every tree? The USSR is dead. Killed by overspending on military in an arms race with the US. It's interesting that you're threatened by the idea of communism, though. Ideas are powerful, I guess.
 
Uh, how can insurance companies send uninsured people overseas for surgeries? :roll:

Yiz

They don't. Nor do they send insured clients overseas for surgeries. You are the one that made the claim. I am simply pointing out that your article does not support your claim in any way.:roll:
 
... I never heard of Marxism until I had the internet. I never really knew much about the Nazi or anything like that either. Those things aren't really discussed in school.
That's sad. The schools should be teaching those things.
 
Those concepts are in the world history curriculum. I know because I'm certified to teach secondary history.

Please distinguish between these concepts. Communism and fascism are very difference concepts. Both communism and fascism appear in very different historical contexts.

*end of history nerd rant*
 
I know the difference. I'm talking about how people got to that point.

If they did teach it, it is a fine sample of how left out I was because the school neglect : lack of visual aids and making me depend on my "ears" too much

and I lived in the clinton era too.


but there are other people who never really took it seriously until they read about it on the internet.... you see, school suppose to keep things neutral and matter of fact attitude. So they keep the subject briefly and make sure you know your facts.
 
Lighthouse, it's true that secondary public school teachers cannot teach these subjects
"in depth." They would be accused of "indoctrinating" the students. It's not that teachers don't want to teach these concepts but the system (politics) prevent it. There's a serious lack of critical thinking in our public schools.

You may be younger than I am. I got an excellent public school education. Things have changed.
 
Yes, I've got a few years on you! I'm 45.
 
I guess because people have different opinions of how it happened and don't always agree with history book interpretation of it. But anyway, it seem to work for liberals because most people my age is liberal anyway.
 
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