EVIDENCE of being deaf with Hearing Aid device

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Sweetmind said:
vp, as far as your last post is concerned...Im sure you see where I stand on those CI issues...I will leave it at that. I have seen many CI failures...including members in this very forum...they were attacked for letting it be known that their CI is failure and they regret being implanted in the first place. Check out this URL http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.php?t=27357 You can find the person who is a former CIer and no one respects him...for example. Many CI failure ppl try to admit their experiences..but ppl with Audist attitude attacked him for swearing while describing his story...Just read this and maybe you can understand a little bit more why my opinion still stands. I want the Deaf children to get Literacy before forcing th em to hear...this cannot be expected..that is WRONG...there is no 2 ways about it. Ive seen Deaf children with out CIs express more than CI children...whats wrong with that picture??

Thank you!! ;)
Sweetmind



It such a shame you haven't given those hearing parents a chance to explain their reason for implantin their children with CI, have you seen any positive sides or have you choosed to ignore it instead?... :dunno:
 
My wife brought up a great point. She said the Deaf people often gives a bad impression on the hearing people... when these people gives birth to a deaf child, they automatically remember the experience. They then want to raise their deaf child 100% in a hearing world because they weren't impressed with what happened in the past. I don't blame them.

I've observed (and chided away in embarassment) situations where the Deaf people put a bad taste in the hearing people too many times. :deal:
 
Fragmenter said:
My wife brought up a great point. She said the Deaf people often gives a bad impression on the hearing people... when these people gives birth to a deaf child, they automatically remember the experience. They then want to raise their deaf child 100% in a hearing world because they weren't impressed with what happened in the past. I don't blame them.

I've observed (and chided away in embarassment) situations where the Deaf people put a bad taste in the hearing people too many times. :deal:


I agree, your wife seem a pretty smart woman to firgure that out as I'm starting to see that here myself


It's quite sad if you ask me...
 
^Angel^ said:
It's quite sad if you ask me...

Very.

The Deaf people mentioned are the same ones who are proud of the Deaf culture but at the same time they are hurting it. They then try to blame the declining culture on mainstream schools, oral deaf people, politics and anything else they can twist into their arguments.
 
Fragmenter said:
My wife brought up a great point. She said the Deaf people often gives a bad impression on the hearing people... when these people gives birth to a deaf child, they automatically remember the experience. They then want to raise their deaf child 100% in a hearing world because they weren't impressed with what happened in the past. I don't blame them.

I've observed (and chided away in embarassment) situations where the Deaf people put a bad taste in the hearing people too many times. :deal:

Do you mean that some deaf people due to their memories as children are so negative about hearing people and their motives that they are passing them on to their own children?
 
Fragmenter said:
Very.

The Deaf people mentioned are the same ones who are proud of the Deaf culture but at the same time they are hurting it. They then try to blame the declining culture on mainstream schools, oral deaf people, politics and anything else they can twist into their arguments.


So true, and that what it looks like to me....
 
Democrat and Chronicle
Saturday, February 15,2003
quote:
NTID's Wetzel is first deaf female referee in NCAA Div. I basketball
by
Scott Pitoniak (reporter)

THE SILVER WHISTLE BEARING the Women's National Basketball Association logo dangles from her rear-view mirror. A gift from a WNBA referee, it serves as a compass for Marsha Wetzel's dreams.

"As I drive along, my goal is always right there in front of me," says Wetzel, the first deaf referee in Division. I women's college basketball history. "The WNBA is where I would like to be someday."

Given what she has overcome and achieved so far, it would be folly to bet against her.

It matters not that Wetzel can't hear the whistle she blows or the scoreboard buzzer. Calling upon her"radar eyes" and a keen knowledge of the game forged during the four years as a point guard for preimarily deaf Gallaudet University, Wetzel officates with a sense of auhtority that has drawn rave reviews from her supervisors in the Atlantic 10 Conference and the Patriot League.

"She is quite a woman," Marie Koch, the A-10's coordinator of officals, told USA today. "She earned her way onto the A=10 second-tier staff simply because of her refereeing ability. She worked hard at out camp. She demonstrated extreme court awareness, a good working knowledge of the game. She's one of the most receptive officials I've worked with. She's sponge. She can't learn enough."

An instructor at RIT's National Technical Institute for the Deaf, Wetzel developed a love for hoops while growing up in the Hartford, Conn, suburb of Newington in the late 1960's, early 70s. Her father played basketball in the Deaflympics, and Wetzel follwed in his sneaker steps, participating twice in the Olympic-style competition. She started four years at Gallaudet, and coached high school girls basketball at the Model Secondary School for the Deaf in Washington,D.C., after graduating in 1986.

Although she guided her team to the championship game that winter, Wetzel didn't develop a passion for coaching. But she still yearned to be involved in the game, and officiating gave her the opportunity to remain on the court, in the middle of the action.

Wetzel's 11 years odyssey from refereeing youth leagues to major college basketball has been filled with numberous obstacles. It has not been easy traversing the trail blazed by Guy Kirk, a deaf referee who has been working men's games in the Southern Conference for 17 years.

Perhaps her biggest challenge is the language barrier. For the 40 years old to communicate with her colleagues, coaches and players before, during and after games, Wetzel must provide interpreters, who use American Sign Language. It's an expensive proposition because interpreters can cost up to 45 per hour. Many school no longer pick up the expense, meaning that Wetzel incurs financial hardships her peer don't face.

"When I don't have an interpreter, I feel like a second-class citizen," she says. "I can communicate fine without one for much of the game, but there are times when I need to be able to discuss things with my partners or with a coach or a player. I've tried to read lips, but everybody has different lip movements so it's difficult."

As frustrating as that hurdle is, Wetzel isn't about to allow it to stop her from pursuing her dream. She's built a network of interpreters and is setting up a fund to help defray the expenses for her and the roughly 32 other deaf basketball officials currently working either high school or college games. (You can contribute by e-mailing Wetzel at SilentWhistle15@aol.com).

"I would like to see us get to a point where deaf officials don't face the struggles I and others have faced, as far as interpreters are concerned," says Wetzel, who teachers a class in officiating at Rochester Institute of Technology to students who are deaf. "We want to remove barriers so that we are on an equal footing with hearing refs."

Despite the obstacles, Wetzel loves what she does.

"You are out there in the flow of the game with all these great athletes," she says. "My reward is working a good game and being anonymous."

Because hand signals are such a huge part of the game, fans, players and coaches often are unaware that Wetzel can't hear. She blends into the flow.

"You don't notice that she's deaf. Bucknell coach Kathy Fedorjaka told Sports Illustrated, "until you start yelling at her and realized it's not going to do a thing."

Wetzel jokes that her deafness comes in handy when one of her calls draws the ire of a coach or player.

"I can just turn away." she says, laughing.

Although she can't hear the boos and catcalls, she's very good at reading facial expressions and body language.

"Believe me I know when somebody is upset with me," she says. "There was one game when a coach came up to me at half-time and through my interpreter really let me have it. I let her have her say. Sometimes you have to do that in order to diffuse a situation. It's part of being an official."

Wetzel says her fellow officals have been very good at protecting her back.

"If a player or coach says something totally inappropriate, she can expect to get (a technical foul)," Wetzel says. "I appreciate the support."

Wetzel, who also works some Section V girls games and local Division III contests, aspires for a busier Division I schedule. The next logical step for her would be to work conference playoff games, then take a shot at the NCAA women's tournment and the Final Four.

Her long-term goal remains the WNBA. Wetzel's reminded of that destination each time she slides into the driver's seat of her car and sees that whistle, dangling like a carrot from her rear-view mirror.


**************

Who is the person success with ASL ? ;) That s a real evidence ! ;)

Thanks! ;)
Sweetmind
 
^Angel^ said:
So true, and that what it looks like to me....
Yeah, you seem to be a deaf person who's putting a bad taste in this hearing person's mouth... :roll:

The Deaf Culture has MANY very valid points on why cochlear implants are a bad idea, and I'm not convinced of the pro-CI propaganda.
 
gnulinuxman said:
Yeah, you seem to be a deaf person who's putting a bad taste in this hearing person's mouth... :roll:

The Deaf Culture has MANY very valid points on why cochlear implants are a bad idea, and I'm not convinced of the pro-CI propaganda.


I didn't get what you are saying, care to explain that a bit more clearly please?


Are you hearing or deaf?
 
Fragmenter said:
Very.

The Deaf people mentioned are the same ones who are proud of the Deaf culture but at the same time they are hurting it. They then try to blame the declining culture on mainstream schools, oral deaf people, politics and anything else they can twist into their arguments.

Mainstream schools often tell Deaf people that signing is a bad idea and they shouldn't do it because it's a "silly little game nobody wants to play".

Oral deaf people sometimes don't care about Deaf Culture, but other ones do. The ones who don't for some reaon tend to speak out against Deaf Culture. That of course makes members of Deaf Culture feel betrayed, especially the deaf members. This is then misunderstood as an attack against all hearing people and oralists (which of course isn't since I am on the side of Deaf Culture here and my Deaf friends welcomed me).

Politics: Deaf people have been fighting for their rights for CENTURIES. Deaf Culturalists felt very intimidated when the CI appeared as the "magic cure for deafness". Most don't view themselves as being in need of a cure, and I don't view deaf people as being in need of a cure either. They were genuinely scared that their rights would be denied because people would then say "You chose not to be hearing, so you don't deserve rights."

In case anyone forgot, I am neither for nor against CI's themselves. I am very much pro-Deaf-Culture and concerned about deaf children.
 
^Angel^ said:
I didn't get what you are saying, care to explain that a bit more clearly please?


Are you hearing or deaf?
Look between my user name and avatar and you'll see the answer.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
But since hearing pple does not understand ASL grammar it unfortunately falls on the deaf person to learn this hearing written English.
Please don't EVER generalize that way again. I am a hearing person who FULLY UNDERSTANDS ASL grammar. Be careful in your generalizations (like by saying "most hearing people" instead).

And I also see the classic mistake here: Do you realize that perhaps if Deaf people are taught that English is a different language with a different set of rules, you could end up with someone who can sign perfect ASL and writes with perfect English?
 
gnulinuxman said:
Yeah, you seem to be a deaf person who's putting a bad taste in this hearing person's mouth... :roll:

The Deaf Culture has MANY very valid points on why cochlear implants are a bad idea, and I'm not convinced of the pro-CI propaganda.

Well that is a matter of opinion. It becomes a problem however if they start to influence policy makers and actually stop people from carrying out their decisions and choices.

Look I think it's fine for people who are opposed to CIs to voice their feelings and thoughts and perhaps if a parent listens to both sides they may choose one or the other.

I am pro choice. Choice for the parents and choice for the children when they grow up into adults. They have the choice to either continue with their CI or to turn it off if they no longer want it.
 
gnulinuxman[b said:
Oral deaf people[/b] sometimes don't care about Deaf Culture, but other ones do. The ones who don't for some reaon tend to speak out against Deaf Culture. That of course makes members of Deaf Culture feel betrayed, especially the deaf members. This is then misunderstood as an attack against all hearing people and oralists (which of course isn't since I am on the side of Deaf Culture here and my Deaf friends welcomed me)..

If you are talking about oral deaf people on this board then I wouldn't say they were speaking out against deaf culture per se. I would say that the argument is rather on the form that deaf culture should take. Whether it has to be narrowly defined (e.g. sign only) or whether it should take on a more broad or flexible form. I am of the flexible bent because I believe in choice and because times are changing and we have to accept that people change with the times.

Politics: Deaf people have been fighting for their rights for CENTURIES. Deaf Culturalists felt very intimidated when the CI appeared as the "magic cure for deafness". Most don't view themselves as being in need of a cure, and I don't view deaf people as being in need of a cure either. They were genuinely scared that their rights would be denied because people would then say "You chose not to be hearing, so you don't deserve rights."

:dunno: I don't see CIs as a cure either and no one from my audiologist, surgeon or the literature from Cochlear has ever told me it was a cure. In fact the people who seem to bang on the most about "cure" are the radical deaf culturalists themselves.

In case anyone forgot, I am neither for nor against CI's themselves. I am very much pro-Deaf-Culture and concerned about deaf children.

Great.
 
R2D2 said:
Well that is a matter of opinion. It becomes a problem however if they start to influence policy makers and actually stop people from carrying out their decisions and choices.

Look I think it's fine for people who are opposed to CIs to voice their feelings and thoughts and perhaps if a parent listens to both sides they may choose one or the other.

I am pro choice. Choice for the parents and choice for the children when they grow up into adults. They have the choice to either continue with their CI or to turn it off if they no longer want it.


:gpost: I absolutely agree!! well said there girl :cheers:
 
gnulinuxman said:
Yeah, you seem to be a deaf person who's putting a bad taste in this hearing person's mouth... :roll:

The Deaf Culture has MANY very valid points on why cochlear implants are a bad idea, and I'm not convinced of the pro-CI propaganda.

in WHAT regard? Implanting children or adults? My experience speaks for itself and is hardly propaganda. I'll tell the truth as to what *I* have experienced when asked, but I don't prosthetalize, and neither does anybody I've seen here who is pro-CI.

Educating those who don't know better and dishing "pro-CI propaganda" are two different things.
 
Please don't EVER generalize that way again. I am a hearing person who FULLY UNDERSTANDS ASL grammar. Be careful in your generalizations (like by saying "most hearing people" instead).

And I also see the classic mistake here: Do you realize that perhaps if Deaf people are taught that English is a different language with a different set of rules, you could end up with someone who can sign perfect ASL and writes with perfect English?

ya know I am sure so far you've noticed I am rather careful to do just that- put "most", "majority" in sentences etc so if I forgot once to add this word, do you have to make out of it major case? It's like hunting sparrows with bazooka, you know..? unneccessary and pointless emphasis.

I am deaf functioning as HoH and I don't unserstand ASL grammar so maybe now I should make a major point out of it, just for balance, huh?


As for: " you could end up with someone who can sign perfect ASL and writes with perfect English?" - depends what you mean.
Signing in hearing English, or prefect ASL like "me bathroom" plus perfect hearing English?
because as far as signing in hearing English goes, Sweetmind thinks it's not neccessary.
I might agree.


Fuzzy
 
The Deaf Culture has MANY very valid points on why cochlear implants are a bad idea

I'm all ears - pun intended.. :) what are those points?

Fuzzy

btw- did you checked Google as I suggested about CI efficacy?
 
R2D2 said:
:dunno: I don't see CIs as a cure either and no one from my audiologist, surgeon or the literature from Cochlear has ever told me it was a cure. In fact the people who seem to bang on the most about "cure" are the radical deaf culturalists themselves.
I've met many audiologists and doctors who have said the CI is the cure for deafness and that it makes deaf babies normal. My fiancee's parents say that too, and they want her to get one, but they can't make her only because the law won't let her parents decide because she is not a minor.
 
I've met many audiologists and doctors who have said the CI is the cure for deafness and that it makes deaf babies normal

How many exactly?
I am a migraneur for over 20 years, and do you know how many neurologists I saw for this? maybe 5 or 6 over the 20 y, period.
Just how many specialist could you see, unless your work enables you to see many drs and audiologists indeed..
somehow I doubt it was that many, and the generalisation itself "I've met many...." tells me it is a stretch.

Fuzzy
 
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