Enough is Enough...

[jillio]

It appears apologies don't come to you naturally.....

What the hell are you talking about, troll? This matter was between jennyB and myself, and she has already accepted my apology.

 

[jillio]

Eerie, it's like you know me so well. All true, like most, if not all adoptive families, there's no way we are telling Li she was adopted. The whole family is sworn to secrecy, we've burned all of the photos taken in China, forged all of her identification papers. I'll explain that her Asian good looks were typical on Daddy's side -- all those east-side-of-town Jamestown settlers looked exactly like her and she can begin her Colonial Dames of America activities as soon as she's 14. I hope you'll all support us in keeping the whole sordid adoption thing quiet.

And, because we were sooooo old when we applied (30 something years olds can't possibly have bio children), we were pretty desperate and told them we weren't picky, we'd take whatever they had off the shelf. As long as it was newborn, because you know how biological children come with all that baggage (the idea of dealing with my father in law's nose, my dad's tendency to burn in the sun) -- we wanted a clean, fresh one and gave them all the specs and eBay whipped one up for us.

Stop making offensive and ignorant posts about how adoptive parents feel and what motivates them.

Why must you always take that which is said in a general context as a direct insult to you? Drop your defensiveness.

 

[Banjo]

Why must you always take that which is said in a general context as a direct insult to you? Drop your defensiveness.

The same thing happened to me the other day. I was accused of taking a jab at someone even though I didn't.

People need to stop making it about themselves.

 

[jillio]

OK, Stop making offensive and ignorant posts about how ANY adoptive parents feel and what motivates them.

Better yet, stop taking everything so personally. I can assure you that comments are made on this forum without you being the primary concern for making them. You simply are not that important in the over all scheme of things.

It is not your right to tell another member what they "can" and "can't" post. You just need better filters when you process it.

 

[jillio]

The same thing happened to me the other day. I was accused of taking a jab at someone even though I didn't.

People need to stop making it about themselves.

Extreme self centeredness. It is getting annoying. It interrupts the flow of productive discussion.

 

[GrendelQ]

It is not your right to tell another member what they "can" and "can't" post.

Sure it is. I have every right to call someone on being offensive and on being wrong. In this case, the commenter is both. So back off my right to object unless you have the stats to back up the assertion that most adoptive parents pretend their child was not adopted.

And as for it being about me: when I objected to your general assumption that we must all 'grieve' some 'tragedy' of having deaf children, quite a few brought up the fact that I had adopted my child as a mitigating factor -- I didn't bring it up -- and that's where it became about my family, and how this protracted discussion of adoption began, one that I let ride, hoping it would peter out, but someone continued into today.

 

[Bottesini]

A point I was trying to make earlier, that deaf people don't generally grieve having a deaf baby was lost in all this.

Too many rolleye emoticons bother my teaching.

 

[JennyB]

What the hell are you talking about, troll? This matter was between jennyB and myself, and she has already accepted my apology.

I am pretty sure it was because you spelled "apologies" wrong...and I do accept it! I just wanted to point out the possible motivation for this comment...

 

[deafdyke]

he grief is not necessarily dependent upon deafness, but is based on a difference. It is a universal concept with birth parents whose child is found to have any kind of a functional difference. Those that want to can deny it until the cows come home, but it is a concept that has been supported time and time again across domains.

AMEN!!!!! Parents who have disabled kids simply find out sooner that their kid is "different". I've seen the same grief with gay kids coming out, with lots of "differences"..Even a kid getting into Wicca or something if they're from a super Christian family. It's not just due to deafness.

That is one of the fundamental reasons that I am opposed to infant implantaton. Parents have not had the time to pyshcological absorb what a diagnosis of deafness really means yet, and they are vunerable to anything that a doctor or an audi tells them will make it easier for their child.

Very true. Granted there are parents who are " Let's do speech AND sign" but they seem kind of rare Parents do still seem to grieve.....and I've seen that on my lists for HOH kids?!?!?

And it pains me when biological parents will abort/kill their unborn babies because pre-natal testing tells them their child will not be born perfect.

I do kind of agree with you. Especially since prenatal testing counseling is REALLY negative. (based generally on outdated info or indivduals who were insistionuionalized in the '60's.) However, there are prenatal disabilties that can be extreme profound (ie incompatible with life or best case scenerio persistant vegetative state like anacephely or profound/severe holoproscencephy) In which case, theraputic abortion could be just like "turning off life support on a terminally ill or long term PVS paitent.

 

[shel90]

Just curious - How would the mother feel if she is a white woman that gave birth to a black child - but never had sex with any black men.....

That is a radical example of an expectation not being met -and it has happened to a friend of mine's mother.

I would be shocked and confused for sure!

 

[rick48]

Sure it is. I have every right to call someone on being offensive and on being wrong. In this case, the commenter is both. So back off my right to object unless you have the stats to back up the assertion that most adoptive parents pretend their child was not adopted.

And as for it being about me: when I objected to your general assumption that we must all 'grieve' some 'tragedy' of having deaf children, quite a few brought up the fact that I had adopted my child as a mitigating factor -- I didn't bring it up -- and that's where it became about my family, and how this protracted discussion of adoption began, one that I let ride, hoping it would peter out, but someone continued into today.

You do indeed have the right and your response was justified and warranted. I know several adoptive parents and no one pretends their child was not adopted, in fact, quite the opposite: they are very open and upfront about it with their children. I think it is wonderful that these families are so open about it.

As far as the "grief" issue, yes I know parents who let it take over their lives instead of moving on to help their kids. Also know many who accepted their child's newly discovered deafness as a part of who their child is and moved on. I think this whole "grief" issue is exaggerated and used as yet another excuse to justify opposition to children getting cochlear implants.

The image of the grief stricken parent as the mindless zombie unable to resist the false promises of doctors and audiologists rushing to get their poor deaf children implanted may work in some small minded pockets of the Deaf community but it is so far from reality and not one embraced by the larger deaf community. That Deaf parents themselves are seeking the cochlear implant for their own children in ever increasing numbers shatters that myth.

Parents considering implants for their kids, and I have known hundreds over the last quarter of a century, are out there seeking advice, getting information and making decisions for their child after considerable time effort and deliberation. They are not paralyzed by "grief" but doing what they are supposed to be doing: acting as parents for their children.

Rick

 

[posts from hell]

You do indeed have the right and your response was justified and warranted. I know several adoptive parents and no one pretends their child was not adopted, in fact, quite the opposite: they are very open and upfront about it with their children. I think it is wonderful that these families are so open about it.

As far as the "grief" issue, yes I know parents who let it take over their lives instead of moving on to help their kids. Also know many who accepted their child's newly discovered deafness as a part of who their child is and moved on. I think this whole "grief" issue is exaggerated and used as yet another excuse to justify opposition to children getting cochlear implants.

The image of the grief stricken parent as the mindless zombie unable to resist the false promises of doctors and audiologists rushing to get their poor deaf children implanted may work in some small minded pockets of the Deaf community but it is so far from reality and not one embraced by the larger deaf community. That Deaf parents themselves are seeking the cochlear implant for their own children in ever increasing numbers shatters that myth.

Parents considering implants for their kids, and I have known hundreds over the last quarter of a century, are out there seeking advice, getting information and making decisions for their child after considerable time effort and deliberation. They are not paralyzed by "grief" but doing what they are supposed to be doing: acting as parents for their children.

Rick

I welcome you to view the Gallaudet Syndrome video.

Get back to me afterwards, k thx.

(Oh and all the info in that video is backed by facts.)

 

[ryancher]

It is part of HIS life

Wow...words have never rung truer. I have to totally agree with this along with Deafbajagal's post.
Audism should not be accepted here.

Because of Tyler, deafness is now part of my life.
As for Tyler, it is his life.

Of course I grieved the loss, and of course I worry about his future... but everyday I thank God for providing me with my children. I know in my heart they were both given to me for a reason. Not only for what I can teach them, but for what they can teach me. I am a lucky mom!

 

[jillio]

Sure it is. I have every right to call someone on being offensive and on being wrong. In this case, the commenter is both. So back off my right to object unless you have the stats to back up the assertion that most adoptive parents pretend their child was not adopted.

And as for it being about me: when I objected to your general assumption that we must all 'grieve' some 'tragedy' of having deaf children, quite a few brought up the fact that I had adopted my child as a mitigating factor -- I didn't bring it up -- and that's where it became about my family, and how this protracted discussion of adoption began, one that I let ride, hoping it would peter out, but someone continued into today.

Actually, you told her to stop posting her opinion. It was more than an objection. It was a blantant attempt to censor so you'll only get the feedback that you want.

 

[jillio]

A point I was trying to make earlier, that deaf people don't generally grieve having a deaf baby was lost in all this.

Too many rolleye emoticons bother my teaching.

Wasn't lost. I got it completely.

 

[jillio]

Because of Tyler, deafness is now part of my life.
As for Tyler, it is his life.

Of course I grieved the loss, and of course I worry about his future... but everyday I thank God for providing me with my children. I know in my heart they were both given to me for a reason. Not only for what I can teach them, but for what they can teach me. I am a lucky mom!

Yes, you are a lucky mom. And you have very lucky children because they have a mom that demonstrates such empathy and value for differences. They will learn from your example, and their lives will be enriched as a result.

 

[jillio]

You do indeed have the right and your response was justified and warranted. I know several adoptive parents and no one pretends their child was not adopted, in fact, quite the opposite: they are very open and upfront about it with their children. I think it is wonderful that these families are so open about it.

As far as the "grief" issue, yes I know parents who let it take over their lives instead of moving on to help their kids. Also know many who accepted their child's newly discovered deafness as a part of who their child is and moved on. I think this whole "grief" issue is exaggerated and used as yet another excuse to justify opposition to children getting cochlear implants.

The image of the grief stricken parent as the mindless zombie unable to resist the false promises of doctors and audiologists rushing to get their poor deaf children implanted may work in some small minded pockets of the Deaf community but it is so far from reality and not one embraced by the larger deaf community. That Deaf parents themselves are seeking the cochlear implant for their own children in ever increasing numbers shatters that myth.

Parents considering implants for their kids, and I have known hundreds over the last quarter of a century, are out there seeking advice, getting information and making decisions for their child after considerable time effort and deliberation. They are not paralyzed by "grief" but doing what they are supposed to be doing: acting as parents for their children.

Rick

Just more blah, blah, blah.

 

[jillio]

I am pretty sure it was because you spelled "apologies" wrong...and I do accept it! I just wanted to point out the possible motivation for this comment...

NP, but thanks for pointing that out. But his motivation is trolling. Has happened numerous times in the past.

 

[Bottesini]

Wasn't lost. I got it completely.

Thank you!

 

[jillio]

I welcome you to view the Gallaudet Syndrome video.

Get back to me afterwards, k thx.

(Oh and all the info in that video is backed by facts.)

Oh, yeah, like that is gonna happen.