jillio
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Okay.
Do you support abortion as
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*nodding agreement*
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Yes it would be nice to have support BUT I beleive if women really want to keep a child and look for solution and seek for the support and make sure either they are able to be responsible to raise a child with loving then is right for them, not force to continue with pregnancy because anyone influence them so when they do not feel ready to be responsible mother. (Some women do not feel like to depend on anyone's support to feel sorry themselves or feel that they do not raise a child in their own responsibly way).
I also beleive it's good solution for women to seek the family counsellor for pros/cons advice before they are able to make decision either they feel ready to be responsible to raise a child with loving/affection or not. The child's welfare is my mainly reason to consider women's choice/interest to become motherhood because I do not like to see child suffering...
I do not beleive in force/influence women's decision but advise them to see family counsellor. I would be glad to advise them if they ask for my view. I know from my past experience for force my sister to not abort her first child... I regretted for do that to her... and feel bad for my sister's children... Since that happened, I never, never, never force/influence women's decision/choice ever again... It make me pro-choice to respect women's decision.
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Don't worry and take time.Yes, it would be nice to get permission from the owner. You know I am against partial birth abortion.
Your link is not working?
But fetus and human is not same thing because fetus is only develop into human. fetus's brain is not develop until after birth. It's parents who feed infant's brain with loving talk, etc.
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Yes, I can understand because they did not ask for miscarriage after 13 weeks pregnancy.
No, it's not easy for women to decide to abort a fetus or give infant up for an adoption. We all know that fetus develop into human and tried to say that fetus and human is not same thing because fetus is not fully human being YET .
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Don't worry and take time.
Your link is not working?
But fetus and human is not same thing because fetus is only develop into human. fetus's brain is not develop until after birth. It's parents who feed infant's brain with loving talk, etc.
No worries. Here!
Fixed: Visible Embryo 10 - 12 Weeks Post Ovulation
Heh, I still disagreed.
No, we never say anything about happy/prefect childhood but child's welfare. We beleive that child deserve a good childhood.
No, I refered to *some* pro-choicers who only care about "prefect"/"happy" childhood. Not in here. Yeah, I can understand child deserve a good childhood. As for a "bad" childhood, grow how? Some children who have poor childhood, grow up and have a better life later or soon. Same with me, I personally had a lousy childhood but I grew up and my life get better a lot. Not stain a rot on my life forever. Example, look at Orpha (famous africa america woman on tv show) who had a "poor" qaulity of life and changed into a famous person. A poor qaulity of life do not mean it have to be in viod because of that, imo.
I'm sorry what and how you were being treated by ignorants like this.
I do not label you as a wanted or unwanted child but answer your post.
That's cool. They were just jerks. Aha
Ooh, thank you.
Answer to your question: Yes, I had severe horrible childhood experience. Do I deserve to have kind of life like this? My answer is NO... I often said to myself that I do wish to have wonderful parents when I look at my friends' warm and loving parents and comfortable and loving home. I envied them... I do not want my children through the same what I had that's why my hubby & I do not rush to start a family because we do not feel ready to be parents... We travelled half world for 7 years and then buy land to build our design country house... start family... and continue travelling with family... My mother often said to me when I was teenager that I should not rush to become mother yet.. and told me herself that she regretted to become mother at age 17... now my sister regretted to become mother at age 19... they both were unfit mothers... yes, they admitted to. Yes I forgave them and move on...
Ooh, I don't mean to. I just said an example.
Wow.. I'm very sorry for what happened to some of your family.
I'd better to give you a warm and supportive links, I assure you it's a good link and, maybe, it may help you. I'll find it whenever I have a time.
I'm so sorry..
There're no comparison between parents and friends, ADers, etc... because I live with parents under the roof, not friends, teachers, ADer, etc.
No, if you are not here to save yourself from facing a pain expereience, then it will effect on people you know who. Understand?
My mainly concern is child's welfare, period. I know what I am saying from my past experience... Yes I know I am not alone in the world but many people have similar experiences as me as well, that's why we support every's choice without influence/force them with their own decision/choice. It's their own interest, what they know from their own heart and feeling, not us.
Agreed heartily. I sometime wish they should not worry about children's prefect childhood so much. But look forward for the best thing to do, for them. It annoyed me when they said "you should not be here"; "your brother should be aborted"; "blah blah" because of some people have a not-so-good life like mine. =/
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jillio
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Hillary Clinton is for pro-choice, and I am still voting for her, I don't know what are you trying to prove.
I know what is WIC, Why do you think I have two sons?
Well, I would think that you have 2 sons for the same reason that anyone else who has children has kids. You had sex, got pregnant, and gave birth to them.
I am not trying to "prove" anything. I am illustrating the fact that the vast majpority of those who are very vocal anti-abortion have absolutely no concern for that fetus once it is born, and therefore, have no courage of their conviction. Their whole focus is some musguided attempt to stop abortion without any effort whatsoever that would create change in the social structure that makes abortion a viable alternative for many women.
Wokamuka
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The point is lost, darling . . . many, many posts ago. Too many.
jillio
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I'm afraid you are correct. Sad, isn't it?
jillio
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LOL
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I have no problem to have you to disagree with me. It's normal that everyone have different POV.
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Ah, I got it.
Yes, I aware it because I'm one of them. It about our positive willing but not others... It's not alway ALL but some... Look at my brother & myself. We positive our life which our other siblings doesn't. Depend on individuals who can acheive to positive their life... I do not beleive that a child should get prefect child because he/she is human being like everyone including us but I still beleive in child's welfare because a child deserve a good childhood.
No worries.
Yes I understand what you mean. If anyone said something negative then is their uneducation and ignorant... All what you think is their LOSS... It's their problem, not ours.
jillio
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BERLIN (AP) -- Babies stashed away in freezers. A tiny skeleton found in a fish tank. Infants suffocated in plastic bags.
The dead bodies of three babies were found in the freezer of this Wenden, Germany home on May 4.
Germany has been gripped by soul-searching over a series of grisly cases of mothers murdering their babies at a time when the state is pushing legislation to encourage people to have more children.
Many of the suspects have been struggling single women who hid their pregnancy from friends and family, gave birth alone and killed the newborn out of fear or desperation -- increasing calls for support programs for single mothers.
In the latest case, police in the southwestern state of Baden-Wuerttemberg said Wednesday that a 20-year-old woman confessed to putting her newborn infant in the freezer about three or four weeks ago, thinking it was dead.
An autopsy has shown that the child was alive when put into the freezer and the woman, who was not identified, has been taken into custody.
Gruesome cases stun Germany
Experts say the rate of German mothers murdering their children is no higher than elsewhere in Europe. In 2006, the latest year for which numbers were available, 82 young children here were killed by a parent, according to crime statistics compiled by the federal government.
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Children's bodies found in German freezer
Mother suspected of killing her five children
But the recent spate of gruesome cases has stunned the nation and prompted questions about cracks in Germany's fabled social welfare system.
Earlier this month, a teenager scrounging for a frozen pizza at his home in western Germany found the bodies of three infants -- his siblings -- in the family's deep freezer. The mother is the suspected killer.
In April, a judge handed a 15-year prison sentence to a woman convicted of killing eight newborns between 1992 and 1998 and burying them in flower pots on her parents' property. The case came to light in 2005 when the caretaker of the house near the German-Polish border found an infant skeleton in a garden fish tank.
Then in May, a 22 year-old-woman was convicted of killing her three newborns by stuffing them into plastic bags. The bodies were discovered in 2007 in cartons in her parents' garage.
More help for struggling mothers
Christian Pfeiffer, director of the Criminological Research Institute of Lower Saxony in Hanover, said relentless media coverage had helped to draw attention to the age-old problem of child abandonment, leading to more outreach programs for troubled new mothers.
"It's one case of the media's fascination with a story actually helping in a desperate situation," he said.
At the same time, the government is increasing spending on family support programs, with overall subsidies worth $103 billion annually, ranging from up to three years paid maternity leave to monthly subsidies of $185 per child through at least age 18.
Many have noted that other countries seem to achieve higher birthrates by focusing less on money and more on better support networks for women to combine study or work with child rearing.
Pfeiffer's institute is collaborating with the government on a new program -- Pro Kind -- in which young women receive free at-home visits from nurses and social workers during their pregnancies and access to pediatric care after birth.
According to Pfeiffer, more than 200 mothers have participated since the program began two years ago.
Hospitals get "baby hatches"
A nonprofit organization called Sternipark launched another approach, equipping hospitals across Germany with "baby hatches" which allow mothers to give up their infants anonymously through a slot in the external wall.
A spokeswoman for the Hamburg-based organization said 35 children had been dropped off since 2000 at its three hatches.
Michelle Oberman, a law professor at Santa Clara University and co-author of a new book called "When Mothers Kill," said Germany's search for effective ways to prevent infanticide was more progressive than the response in the U.S.
There, said Oberman, the strategy was often to give a guilty mother the longest possible sentence.
"It takes more than just a crazy and pregnant woman to make this happen," said Oberman.
American mothers kill more children each year than German mothers, but Oberman cautioned against leaning to heavily on statistics. From abortion laws to health care access, she said the social conditions that drove a mother to kill were too complicated to quantify.
And for every case that makes the headlines in Germany or the U.S., she added, there is no way to know how many remain a secret. Grisly baby murder cases shock Germany - CNN.com
Is this situation preferable to elective first trimester abortion?
The dead bodies of three babies were found in the freezer of this Wenden, Germany home on May 4.
Germany has been gripped by soul-searching over a series of grisly cases of mothers murdering their babies at a time when the state is pushing legislation to encourage people to have more children.
Many of the suspects have been struggling single women who hid their pregnancy from friends and family, gave birth alone and killed the newborn out of fear or desperation -- increasing calls for support programs for single mothers.
In the latest case, police in the southwestern state of Baden-Wuerttemberg said Wednesday that a 20-year-old woman confessed to putting her newborn infant in the freezer about three or four weeks ago, thinking it was dead.
An autopsy has shown that the child was alive when put into the freezer and the woman, who was not identified, has been taken into custody.
Gruesome cases stun Germany
Experts say the rate of German mothers murdering their children is no higher than elsewhere in Europe. In 2006, the latest year for which numbers were available, 82 young children here were killed by a parent, according to crime statistics compiled by the federal government.
Don't Miss
Woman suffocated babies in plastic bags
Police: Mother only suspect in freezer babies case
Children's bodies found in German freezer
Mother suspected of killing her five children
But the recent spate of gruesome cases has stunned the nation and prompted questions about cracks in Germany's fabled social welfare system.
Earlier this month, a teenager scrounging for a frozen pizza at his home in western Germany found the bodies of three infants -- his siblings -- in the family's deep freezer. The mother is the suspected killer.
In April, a judge handed a 15-year prison sentence to a woman convicted of killing eight newborns between 1992 and 1998 and burying them in flower pots on her parents' property. The case came to light in 2005 when the caretaker of the house near the German-Polish border found an infant skeleton in a garden fish tank.
Then in May, a 22 year-old-woman was convicted of killing her three newborns by stuffing them into plastic bags. The bodies were discovered in 2007 in cartons in her parents' garage.
More help for struggling mothers
Christian Pfeiffer, director of the Criminological Research Institute of Lower Saxony in Hanover, said relentless media coverage had helped to draw attention to the age-old problem of child abandonment, leading to more outreach programs for troubled new mothers.
"It's one case of the media's fascination with a story actually helping in a desperate situation," he said.
At the same time, the government is increasing spending on family support programs, with overall subsidies worth $103 billion annually, ranging from up to three years paid maternity leave to monthly subsidies of $185 per child through at least age 18.
Many have noted that other countries seem to achieve higher birthrates by focusing less on money and more on better support networks for women to combine study or work with child rearing.
Pfeiffer's institute is collaborating with the government on a new program -- Pro Kind -- in which young women receive free at-home visits from nurses and social workers during their pregnancies and access to pediatric care after birth.
According to Pfeiffer, more than 200 mothers have participated since the program began two years ago.
Hospitals get "baby hatches"
A nonprofit organization called Sternipark launched another approach, equipping hospitals across Germany with "baby hatches" which allow mothers to give up their infants anonymously through a slot in the external wall.
A spokeswoman for the Hamburg-based organization said 35 children had been dropped off since 2000 at its three hatches.
Michelle Oberman, a law professor at Santa Clara University and co-author of a new book called "When Mothers Kill," said Germany's search for effective ways to prevent infanticide was more progressive than the response in the U.S.
There, said Oberman, the strategy was often to give a guilty mother the longest possible sentence.
"It takes more than just a crazy and pregnant woman to make this happen," said Oberman.
American mothers kill more children each year than German mothers, but Oberman cautioned against leaning to heavily on statistics. From abortion laws to health care access, she said the social conditions that drove a mother to kill were too complicated to quantify.
And for every case that makes the headlines in Germany or the U.S., she added, there is no way to know how many remain a secret. Grisly baby murder cases shock Germany - CNN.com
Is this situation preferable to elective first trimester abortion?
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*nodding sadly*
I created that same thread at few hours ago... and did not see your post until today, Jillos.
http://www.alldeaf.com/current-events/52900-germans-ponder-string-infant-killings.html
I created that same thread at few hours ago... and did not see your post until today, Jillos.
http://www.alldeaf.com/current-events/52900-germans-ponder-string-infant-killings.html
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OK. I did a web search for "pro life human rights organizations", and came up with links to either pro life organizations, or anti pro life organizations. So I did a search for "pro choice human rights organizations", and came up with either pro choice organizations, or anti pro life organizations. It seems that every search results in either pro life or pro choice organizations, or links that accuse each other of not really being human rights organizations. Not many organizations could agree on what "human rights" included. Even Amnesty International was having a debate about whether or not pro life/pro choice should be considered.
Also, there was cross-membership. People who were either pro or anti abortion were members of the same "human rights" organizations, or were opposed to the same organizations for different reasons.
If you base your opinion of whether or not a person supports mothers and babies by their memberships in political or lobbying organizations, I don't have any figures for that. If you base your opinion of whether or not a person supports mothers and babies by their individual actions, then you'll have to accept their testimonials of their actions, or published examples of their works.
I've seen pro life (anti abortion) individuals, families, and local groups take care of young unwed mothers and their babies, often at great sacrifice to themselves. Most of them work at the local level, and don't make a big splash about their work. Pro life people also work to lift people out of poverty, fight against injustice, tutor kids, feed the hungry, take in homeless, serve in free clinics, etc., without belonging to a large web-based organization. Many people do this work thru their churches or religious organizations, which I suppose would be dismissed automatically.
So, no, I didn't find any sites that were specifically "for the anti-abortion groups who are so politically active in the campaign for human rights." The organization that came closest to your criteria of human rights support was the Catholic Church, with an international scope of activities.
jillio
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Hence my previous claims in several posts that the Catholic Church was one of the few orgnizations that could rightfully claim a complete "pro-life" stance.
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