Do you support abortion as

[Liebling:-)))]

And where is your link to the abortion site that you run?

Ditto





KarissaMann05, I will read your post later.

 

[jillio]

Wow, I didn't realize that this had gone crazy already. I understand your point of view about Abortion. All I can say it is plain wrong, period regardless if it's women body/choice.

Why I am saying this? Because I had experience one when I had gone through and it's terrible, I am telling you. Abortions does hunt you down when women done them... It does hit men hard too that many women doesn't realize that.

That is the main reason I run a abortion site that educate everyone that abortion is very serious and it does a huge threat on women/men's health.

Perhaps if you are having a difficult time dealing with your abortion experience, you should seek counseling to deal with your own personal problems with the experience. Your personal inability to deal with your situations in a postive way is not justification for telling a entire population of women who do not suffer the same negative effects you suffered that they do not have the right to make the decision for themselves. Just because it was a wrong decision for you does not mean that it is a wrong decision for all.

And like the others have requested, could we please have the link to your site?

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

Wow, I didn't realize that this had gone crazy already. I understand your point of view about Abortion. All I can say it is plain wrong, period regardless if it's women body/choice.

Why I am saying this? Because I had experience one when I had gone through and it's terrible, I am telling you. Abortions does hunt you down when women done them... It does hit men hard too that many women doesn't realize that.

That is the main reason I run a abortion site that educate everyone that abortion is very serious and it does a huge threat on women/men's health.

Abortion is a necessary evil for some women. Some women cannot or are not prepared to go through pregnancy or care for a baby. Sometimes being pregnant can post very serious health risks for some women. I know there is the option for adoption, but there are so many children who are up for adoption and are in the foster care system, and not enough adoptive parents to go around. Why add to this serious problem?

 

[jillio]

Abortion is a necessary evil for some women. Some women cannot or are not prepared to go through pregnancy or care for a baby. Sometimes being pregnant can post very serious health risks for some women. I know there is the option for adoption, but there are so many children who are up for adoption and are in the foster care system, and not enough adoptive parents to go around. Why add to this serious problem?

The lack of familial care for those children already born doesn't seem to be of much concern to the anti-abortion crowd. Their protection goes only from pregnancy to birth. That is one of the great contradcitions in their position. They fight for an embryo, but when it comes to programs that will actually assist mothers and children they remain strangley silent. Health care for poor infants and mothers is another issue they don't address. It would appear that their concern extends only for 9 months and is short lived, indeed. At least for most.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Abortion is a necessary evil for some women. Some women cannot or are not prepared to go through pregnancy or care for a baby. Sometimes being pregnant can post very serious health risks for some women. I know there is the option for adoption, but there are so many children who are up for adoption and are in the foster care system, and not enough adoptive parents to go around. Why add to this serious problem?

Exactly, like what I said before that it´s women´s decision either they are for an adoption or early abortion after search con/pro between adoption and abortion.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I disagreed. Because of this, take a look...

It doesn´t mean everyone are the same because she has a bad experience.

Not all unwanted children will have a horrible life forever. It's depend on their satuations are. But, if it's true, why am I alive? My mom should abort me because of my poor qaulity of life and my disablity too. I'm not that worth person to be, anyway.

I remember your post at your thread that your Grandma forced your mother to abort you but your mother choose to keep you. Right? It mean is you are wanted child.

Some women are unexpect to have a baby and decide to keep them because they accept their responsible and know they CAN give child their love and attention which other women doesn´t. Why should they force to keep baby when they know they can´t accept the responsible to raise a child with love and attention.

A poor qaulity of lives mean to be void. My life supppose to be viod, too. :nods:

No, your mother want to keep you in first place and ignore your Grandma, don´t she?

(Just thought on this, not disagree with this) If you don't want illegal abortion, don't have one.

That's all.

Did you know there´re abortion law in different countries? Some of countries fix abortion law as an illegal and consider it as a murder/crimes if they abort fetus like what I provided links in previous post. Here in Germany, abortion wsa banned until many German seek abortion illegal - born and kill babies, went to Holland to abort babies, and arrest them and treat them criminal.... it make them kill babies after birth more and more... that´s why they decide to loose the abortion law into restriction, no more banned... which is good... We Europeans support abortion as a legal but I notice many pro-lifers are fighting to have abortion as an illegal/banned in America.

 

[Reba]

The lack of familial care for those children already born doesn't seem to be of much concern to the anti-abortion crowd. Their protection goes only from pregnancy to birth. That is one of the great contradcitions in their position. They fight for an embryo, but when it comes to programs that will actually assist mothers and children they remain strangley silent. Health care for poor infants and mothers is another issue they don't address. It would appear that their concern extends only for 9 months and is short lived, indeed. At least for most.

Where do you get those "facts"? Where have you read that people who are against abortion on demand don't support health care and assistance for mothers and infants? I've observed just the opposite.

 

[jillio]

Where do you get those "facts"? Where have you read that people who are against abortion on demand don't support health care and assistance for mothers and infants? I've observed just the opposite.

Don't see as lot of them focusing on social issues around here. Haven't seen a single anti-abortion post that speaks out for improved health care once the child is born, the issues with the foster care system, or the number os single family homes that are existing far below the posverty line. Concern is only that the abortion not be done....not with how that child will be supported after birth.

 

[Cheri]

Wow, I didn't realize that this had gone crazy already. I understand your point of view about Abortion. All I can say it is plain wrong, period regardless if it's women body/choice.

Why I am saying this? Because I had experience one when I had gone through and it's terrible, I am telling you. Abortions does hunt you down when women done them... It does hit men hard too that many women doesn't realize that.

That is the main reason I run a abortion site that educate everyone that abortion is very serious and it does a huge threat on women/men's health.

It hits women hard too, not only men, But I agree with everything else you stated.

 

[Cheri]

Where do you get those "facts"? Where have you read that people who are against abortion on demand don't support health care and assistance for mothers and infants? I've observed just the opposite.

I agree, Of course We support health care for mothers and infants, even there is also a program that helps low incoming families which called WIC.

 

[jillio]

I agree, Of course We support health care for mothers and infants, even there is also a program that helps low incoming families which called WIC.

How exactly is it that you support health care for young mothers and children living in poverty? Are you speaking out on the lack of health care, the lack of proper nutrition, the lack of eductional opportunity and employment opportunty that plagues these families? Are you campaigning for national health care that would insure every child?

WIC (or Women Infants and Children) is a low income based nutritional supplement. It does not address health care. It provides coupons to pregnant women and women with long children that are living below an income level necessary to sustain them. Those coupons are used to purchase milk, juice, cereal, and other nutritional items.

What would be your solution for the young drug addicted mother that was living on the streets to escape an abusive home environment? How would you address her health needs, the health needs of her child, the need for shelter and nutrition, the need for parenting classes, the need for support systems, the need for mental health sevices, and recovery services?

Would youvote for a candidate who proposed universal health care for all children, government subsidies for child care that would allow poor mothers to train and become employed, government subsidized housing, reductions in the costs of post secondary education, and an improved foster care system if he was also pro-choice on the abortion issue? Or would you refuse him/her your vote based only on the fact that he/she was pro-choice?

 

[Reba]

Many "anti-abortion" individuals and groups support unwed mother homes and programs, with their dollars and time. They provide a safe, clean environment for them to live in, schooling and job training, parenting classes, baby necessities, counseling, transportation for doctor visits, etc. Many "anti-abortion" families adopt or foster babies born to unwed mothers. Many non-profit daycares are run and supported by "anti-abortion" groups.

On the other hand, just because some "pro-abortion" individuals say that their position is motivated only by altruism for women and children, doesn't mean that they all provide support to the moms who "choose" to give birth rather than abort.

Let me ask, "Would you vote for a candidate who proposed universal health care for all children, government subsidies for child care that would allow poor mothers to train and become employed, government subsidized housing, reductions in the costs of post secondary education, and an improved foster care system if he was also anti-abortion on demand on the abortion issue? Or would you refuse him/her your vote based only on the fact that he/she was anti-abortion on demand?"

 

[jillio]

Many "anti-abortion" individuals and groups support unwed mother homes and programs, with their dollars and time. They provide a safe, clean environment for them to live in, schooling and job training, parenting classes, baby necessities, counseling, transportation for doctor visits, etc. Many "anti-abortion" families adopt or foster babies born to unwed mothers. Many non-profit daycares are run and supported by "anti-abortion" groups.

On the other hand, just because some "pro-abortion" individuals say that their position is motivated only by altruism for women and children, doesn't mean that they all provide support to the moms who "choose" to give birth rather than abort.

Let me ask, "Would you vote for a candidate who proposed universal health care for all children, government subsidies for child care that would allow poor mothers to train and become employed, government subsidized housing, reductions in the costs of post secondary education, and an improved foster care system if he was also anti-abortion on demand on the abortion issue? Or would you refuse him/her your vote based only on the fact that he/she was anti-abortion on demand?"

Got any sites for the anti-abortion groups who are so politically active in the campaign for human rights?

And, yes I would. Because at least with his anti-abortion stance he is seeking the means to provide for those fetuses that he seeks to prevent being aborted. While I still believe that the issue is one of choice, I would be far more inclined to vote for a candidate who at least had the courage of his pro-life convictions by seeking a remedy to the situations that will be created by an overturning of Roe V Wade than a candidate is anti-abortion without having made those provisions and, as a result, has taken a hypocritical position.

 

[KarissaMann05]

Liebling - I just waited for owner of her journal to answer my question and asked her with her permission for copying her answers to paste in here. It's about a baby can feel a pain at around 4 or 5 months of pregnancy. So... I hope she allow me to paste it in here but I feel so doubt she will. Wait see... Oh, yeah. I also can't find any website cos I don't remember where it is...

Anyway -

No, it's not what you thought so.

I was 13 weeks pregnant when I lost my baby. I gave birth to a teeny, tiny little human with ten fingers and ten toes, two eyes, a nose, two ears, all the parts a full-grown baby is born with. And as I looked at my tiny baby's body, ... so many women in this country don't even see it as being a life, being alive and worthy of protection.

...We couldn't have her buried in a proper cemetary because her life wasn't even recognized as a life. ... (Link)

I simply pointed that fetus is more human than just parasites (go see [prochoice link] yourself and pro-choicers still consider them as non-person). Same with an anti-child childfree person, sometimes, don't consider young children (under 10 or 5 of the age) as a person or human. To me, it just kill a tiny child because it stops heart beating.

Yes, I am a "wanted" child. But, you don't get what I said. Since many pro-choicers always worry about "happy"/"prefect" childhood... THAT'S WHY A FEW IDIOT PROCHOICERS TOLD ME THAT MY MOM SHOULD ABORT ME BECAUSE OF MY LOUSY CHILDHOOD AND STUPID DISABLITY. IT'S NOT MATTER IF I AM WANTED OR NOT.
Personally, I hate "each child is wanted child and if not, kill it" subject. I don't want you to label me as wanted child, obviously, it got me wonder what if my mom don't want me. She would abort me for sure! Let me ask you - for example, you had a bad childhood with your parent, but only if so, you feel don't dervses to be here because how your childhood was suffered, right? Don't you want to have an awful experience, right? If yes, then a whole of your family, (best) friends, teachers, ADers, and people are meaningless to YOU. Thay/we are not really importance to you because of YOUR BAD CHILDHOOD should put in a viod, in order to save you from the vile experience. That's my point is "wanted-ness" vs "welcomed" is beyond illogical debate, so I am just "unwelcomed" to world because of my poor qaulity of life should be viod as (few) pro-choicers said so!

Now, do you get it what I said? I hope you do..

No, I refered to hanger coats.

 

[jillio]

Liebling - I just waited for owner of her journal to answer my question and asked her with her permission for copying her answers to paste in here. It's about a baby can feel a pain at around 4 or 5 months of pregnancy. So... I hope she allow me to paste it in here but I feel so doubt she will. Wait see... Oh, yeah. I also can't find any website cos I don't remember where it is...

Anyway -

No, it's not what you thought so.


I simply pointed that fetus is more human than just parasites (go see [prochoice link] yourself and pro-choicers still consider them as non-person). Same with an anti-child childfree person, sometimes, don't consider young children (under 10 or 5 of the age) as a person or human. To me, it just kill a tiny child because it stops heart beating.

Yes, I am a "wanted" child. But, you don't get what I said. Since many pro-choicers always worry about "happy"/"prefect" childhood... THAT'S WHY A FEW IDIOT PROCHOICERS TOLD ME THAT MY MOM SHOULD ABORT ME BECAUSE OF MY LOUSY CHILDHOOD AND STUPID DISABLITY. IT'S NOT MATTER IF I AM WANTED OR NOT.
Personally, I hate "each child is wanted child and if not, kill it" subject. I don't want you to label me as wanted child, obviously, it got me wonder what if my mom don't want me. She would abort me for sure! Let me ask you - for example, you had a bad childhood with your parent, but only if so, you feel don't dervses to be here because how your childhood was suffered, right? Don't you want to have an awful experience, right? If yes, then a whole of your family, (best) friends, teachers, ADers, and people are meaningless to YOU. Thay/we are not really importance to you because of YOUR BAD CHILDHOOD should put in a viod, in order to save you from the vile experience. That's my point is "wanted-ness" vs "welcomed" is beyond illogical debate, so I am just "unwelcomed" to world because of my poor qaulity of life should be viod as (few) pro-choicers said so!

Now, do you get it what I said? I hope you do..

No, I refered to hanger coats.

In your quote, was the person referring to an abortion. She said, "I lost my baby" which would imply miscarraige. A miscarraige is not considered to be a birth. The fetus has not reached viability at 13 weeks, therefore it is not considered a birth.

She couldn't have her buried in a cemetary because it was not a still birth. It was a miscarraige.

While these quotes are very touching emotionally, that is all they are. Someone's emotional response to a miscarraige.

What exactly is it that you think confers "personhood" on a 13 week embryo?

 

[Reba]

Got any sites for the anti-abortion groups who are so politically active in the campaign for human rights?

Not tonight. I have to leave soon. If I have time tomorrow night.

Give me an example of what you consider "human rights".

And, yes I would...

If you can do that, then why do you think anti-abortion on demand proponents might not reason the same way?

 

[jillio]

Not tonight. I have to leave soon. If I have time tomorrow night.

Give me an example of what you consider "human rights".



If you can do that, then why do you think anti-abortion on demand proponents might not reason the same way?

Lets see.....human rights issues would include the issues of universal health care provided on need, not social status or income level, access to good nutrition, the right not to live in abject poverty because of inequities in a stratified society, issues of inequities within the legal system, the right to one's cultural heritage, etc.etc.etc.

 

[KarissaMann05]

In your quote, was the person referring to an abortion. She said, "I lost my baby" which would imply miscarraige. A miscarraige is not considered to be a birth. The fetus has not reached viability at 13 weeks, therefore it is not considered a birth.

She couldn't have her buried in a cemetary because it was not a still birth. It was a miscarraige.

While these quotes are very touching emotionally, that is all they are. Someone's emotional response to a miscarraige.

What exactly is it that you think confers "personhood" on a 13 week embryo?

... all the parts a full-grown baby is born with ... so many women in this country don't even see it as being a life, being alive and worthy of protection.

Just like slavery, whites don't see those africa americans as human being or person. Just slaves in their eyes of whites. To me, because I was shared by some pro-lifers' miscarriage experiences and they saw tiny children in their hands and those little ones are fully humans while those little ones are still developed until they are completed before at birth. Pro-choicers... just shrug as if they are not truly humans or non-persons at all so a female can have an another one...

 

[jillio]

Just like slavery, whites don't see those africa americans as human being or person. Just slaves in their eyes of whites. To me, because I was shared by some pro-lifers' miscarriage experiences and they saw tiny children in their hands and those little ones are fully humans while those little ones are still developed until they are completed before at birth. Pro-choicers... just shrug as if they are not truly humans or non-persons at all so a female can have an another one...

The experience of miscarraige cannot be equated to the experience of abortion. They are 2 separate issues emotionally.

But you still haven't told me what confers the status of "personhood" on a fetus. What makes a person a person? Is it a couple of arms, and the beginning of a liver, or is it the ability to think, feel, and reason?

 

[KarissaMann05]

The experience of miscarraige cannot be equated to the experience of abortion. They are 2 separate issues emotionally.

But you still haven't told me what confers the status of "personhood" on a fetus. What makes a person a person? Is it a couple of arms, and the beginning of a liver, or is it the ability to think, feel, and reason?

:sighs: I don't feel like I can explain it again...