Do we have a challenge ahead of us to avoid becoming Hearing?

jillio said:
Even your interpretation of what he says implicates ASL usage. Seriously, Grendel, you are the only one that doesn't see it.:roll:
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His argument that there exist Oral- and ASL Deaf who do not have appropriate literacy (not enough to read captions, a menu, whatever his examples were, etc.) and rely solely on either spoken English or ASL -- without written English -- implicates ASL usage in what way?
 
jillio said:
And again, no one teaches ASL WITHOUT READING AND WRITING INCORPORATED INTO THE CURRICULUM.
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Again, no one intentionally teaches illiteracy and low literacy, and yet it exists.
 
rolling7 is saying "I've made it clear that the state and feds need to get their nose out of education because they have created a mess. Leave education to the parents and they will have total say about their child. This way they will keep close watch over their childs development. "

I agree.

The government needs to not control lives of Deaf children that they know little about and leave it in the hands of parents who wants their kids to have ALL tools to ensure their success in life.

My son just graduated from an alternative school that was founded by parents who were unsatisfied with traditional schooling. He had been going there since 7th grade. I'm really grateful that a band of parents thumbed their noses at traditional schooling and created their own that really stimulated students' minds and active participation.

rolling7 is not saying parent-controlled schools are bad. I do see that he tripped over his own words here and there but I think it's really more to do with typos or getting words out too fast and posting before editing.

He is saying that literacy is a problem in Deaf adults who sign and whose reading/writing skills are low. I just looked up statistics on low literacy in Deafs in Canada - and dismayed to find out it's at 65%. So, rolling7 is not off the mark - there must be similar rates in the US. He is just saying they do exist and that knowing only ASL and not well versed in English is affecting them. I think he awkwardly phrased things when he said ASL hinders language development. I think he meant to say that if reading and writing English is not a priority, Deafs will be delayed in English language development.

rolling7 - I don't always agree with you on some subjects but i do get what you're trying to say here and yes, there are some Deaf people who sign only and yes, their literacy in English, their second language, is low and that affects them in life. And that you say government-run schools in which parents have no say are one of the problems facing Deaf kids. And that adult Deafs who do not take the initiative to teach themselves how to read and write in English deserve what they get.

that last sentence I don't agree with though. You're making it sound like they are lazy bums who deserve to be homeless because they don't want to improve their literacy skills. It's not that simple. You should google adult literacy, it may help you get into their heads a bit and understand their resistance.
 
DeafCaroline said:
rolling7 is saying "I've made it clear that the state and feds need to get their nose out of education because they have created a mess. Leave education to the parents and they will have total say about their child. This way they will keep close watch over their childs development. "

I agree.

The government needs to not control lives of Deaf children that they know little about and leave it in the hands of parents who wants their kids to have ALL tools to ensure their success in life.

My son just graduated from an alternative school that was founded by parents who were unsatisfied with traditional schooling. He had been going there since 7th grade. I'm really grateful that a band of parents thumbed their noses at traditional schooling and created their own that really stimulated students' minds and active participation.

rolling7 is not saying parent-controlled schools are bad. I do see that he tripped over his own words here and there but I think it's really more to do with typos or getting words out too fast and posting before editing.

He is saying that literacy is a problem in Deaf adults who sign and whose reading/writing skills are low. I just looked up statistics on low literacy in Deafs in Canada - and dismayed to find out it's at 65%. So, rolling7 is not off the mark - there must be similar rates in the US. He is just saying they do exist and that knowing only ASL and not well versed in English is affecting them. I think he awkwardly phrased things when he said ASL hinders language development. I think he meant to say that if reading and writing English is not a priority, Deafs will be delayed in English language development.

rolling7 - I don't always agree with you on some subjects but i do get what you're trying to say here and yes, there are some Deaf people who sign only and yes, their literacy in English, their second language, is low and that affects them in life. And that you say government-run schools in which parents have no say are one of the problems facing Deaf kids. And that adult Deafs who do not take the initiative to teach themselves how to read and write in English deserve what they get.

that last sentence I don't agree with though. You're making it sound like they are lazy bums who deserve to be homeless because they don't want to improve their literacy skills. It's not that simple. You should google adult literacy, it may help you get into their heads a bit and understand their resistance.
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:thumb: Completely agree with you. Including your disagreement with the idea that those who are adult and illiterate deserve what they get.
 
jillio said:
That isn't apathy. That is neglect.

Where is there a public school controlled by parental participation?

You are going around in circles. First you say it should be a criterion for funding, then you say it should not be a criterion for funding. We aren't saying the same thing at all. You aren't even saying the same thing in two subsequent posts.

Uh, mandatory attendance is a legal concept. Has nothing to do with parental discipline.

And I do not advocate the use of objects to strike a child under any circumstances.
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When a child's parent does it that is neglect..When society accept it regardless..that is apathy.

Many years ago before the government took over, schools were control by parents participation. Once again, look at the huge mess the government made (with apathy of the people)

Mandatory attendance was made a legal concept because a small number of parents did not control their kid's attendance. The lack of parents discipline brought about this concept.

My grandfather and grandmother used a belt when necessary. My mother and my father used a belt when necessary. And I know all my cousins would say the same thing. You can't find a "bad" among any of us. You, the government nor anybody else should have a say in child discipline.....child abuse yes but of all the many, many times I and my cousins got the belt, never once came close to abuse.
You are entitle to you opinion but keep it in your head our a public forum, don't dare right to tel parents how to discipline their child.
 
GrendelQ said:
That's just it. Neither does rolling7's statement have anything to do with damning ASL use, or with damning spoken language use. It has to do with learning to read and write English.
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I Notice it strong pretty sound interesting serious complication!
 
DeafCaroline said:
rolling7 is saying "I've made it clear that the state and feds need to get their nose out of education because they have created a mess. Leave education to the parents and they will have total say about their child. This way they will keep close watch over their childs development. "

I agree.

The government needs to not control lives of Deaf children that they know little about and leave it in the hands of parents who wants their kids to have ALL tools to ensure their success in life.

My son just graduated from an alternative school that was founded by parents who were unsatisfied with traditional schooling. He had been going there since 7th grade. I'm really grateful that a band of parents thumbed their noses at traditional schooling and created their own that really stimulated students' minds and active participation.

rolling7 is not saying parent-controlled schools are bad. I do see that he tripped over his own words here and there but I think it's really more to do with typos or getting words out too fast and posting before editing.

He is saying that literacy is a problem in Deaf adults who sign and whose reading/writing skills are low. I just looked up statistics on low literacy in Deafs in Canada - and dismayed to find out it's at 65%. So, rolling7 is not off the mark - there must be similar rates in the US. He is just saying they do exist and that knowing only ASL and not well versed in English is affecting them. I think he awkwardly phrased things when he said ASL hinders language development. I think he meant to say that if reading and writing English is not a priority, Deafs will be delayed in English language development.

rolling7 - I don't always agree with you on some subjects but i do get what you're trying to say here and yes, there are some Deaf people who sign only and yes, their literacy in English, their second language, is low and that affects them in life. And that you say government-run schools in which parents have no say are one of the problems facing Deaf kids. And that adult Deafs who do not take the initiative to teach themselves how to read and write in English deserve what they get.

that last sentence I don't agree with though. You're making it sound like they are lazy bums who deserve to be homeless because they don't want to improve their literacy skills. It's not that simple. You should google adult literacy, it may help you get into their heads a bit and understand their resistance.
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Sure, those are charter schools and they are becoming more and more popular. And from what we have seen from their results, they are very successful, particularly with kids who were having problems in the mainstream due to learning differences, etc. But I fail to see what that has to do with blogs being a requirement for a school to receive funding. That is the part I disagreed with.
 
rolling7 said:
When a child's parent does it that is neglect..When society accept it regardless..that is apathy.

Many years ago before the government took over, schools were control by parents participation. Once again, look at the huge mess the government made (with apathy of the people)

If you are talking about before the public school system came into being, you are going too far back to even address the issues. Most kids didn't even get an 8th grade education during that period of time. Many, many more adults, hearing and deaf, were illiterate prior to the public school system being instituted.[/COLOR

]Mandatory attendance was made a legal concept because a small number of parents did not control their kid's attendance. The lack of parents discipline brought about this concept.

No, mandatory attendance until a specific age has been in existence as long as the public school system has existed.

My grandfather and grandmother used a belt when necessary. My mother and my father used a belt when necessary. And I know all my cousins would say the same thing. You can't find a "bad" among any of us. You, the government nor anybody else should have a say in child discipline.....child abuse yes but of all the many, many times I and my cousins got the belt, never once came close to abuse.
You are entitle to you opinion but keep it in your head our a public forum, don't dare right to tel parents how to discipline their child.
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Your last sentence, due to the many confusing grammatical arrangements, etc. is almost incomprehensible. I have no idea why a public forum has anything to do with it. I don't tell people how to discipline their children. The law does. And I still do not advocate the use of any object used to hit a child. Those tactics are used by parents that are incapable of addressing a situation with intelligence, logic, and patience. Just because a previous generation engaged in such does not make it right.
 
A lot of people do read books online on their computer/laptop. Just like the kind of books you'd find at in any library. In fact, I have complete access to over a million free books. As for kids, well, let me tell you that my daughter in middle school had to read a few online books for her class assignment. She did pretty good.
 
kokonut said:
A lot of people do read books online on their computer/laptop. Just like the kind of books you'd find at in any library. In fact, I have complete access to over a million free books. As for kids, well, let me tell you that my daughter in middle school had to read a few online books for her class assignment. She did pretty good.
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And your point would be?
 
kokonut said:
Not me. I knew I had a hearing loss and I knew I wasn't like my mother, father, and my siblings when I was a very young boy.
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I don't doubt that. and I ain't talking about your "deafness". They must be thinking - "why is he laughing when nobody is laughing?"
 
When I'm attached to another person, I don't consider the other person different even though there are obvious differences. I suppose that it comes from accepting another person.
 
sallylou said:
When I'm attached to another person, I don't consider the other person different even though there are obvious differences. I suppose that it comes from accepting another person.
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Absolutely. We could certainly use more of that in this world.
 
Originally Posted by jillio View Post
There are anecdotes of deaf children believing they will be hearing when they grow up because they have never seen a deaf adult.
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DeafCaroline
I was one of them.
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kokonut said:
Not me. I knew I had a hearing loss and I knew I wasn't like my mother, father, and my siblings when I was a very young boy.
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Ok, what? Jillio said she heard stories of deaf kids believing they will be hearing when they grow up. Not that they believe they were hearing as kids.


I knew I was deaf as a kid but I did believe I would become hearing as an adult based on two things: I kinda got the message that somehow the better I speak and lipead, the more hearing I would become. Thusly, if I practiced and practiced and tried and tried really really hard, I WOULD become hearing as an adult.

Secondly, there was always talk of "Science is doing amazing things, who know, one day you could be cured!" I believed the hype.

Ever heard of tact? Ever tried to understand where others are coming from based on their experiences? You tell me not to be snotty but frankly my dear, it's you. I would appreciate you putting your nose down for a bit so I can get a break from looking up your nostrils. Just try being nice and kind and sensitive for a change, it won't kill you.
 
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