Do we have a challenge ahead of us to avoid becoming Hearing?

[rolling7]

Not wasted at all. You need to clarify what your use of ASL only entails. So far, it appears that you include the use of written English in that definition. To be factual, if written English is being used in any form and for any purpose, and individual is not using ASL only.

You need to go back and re-read my posts, if you have read them at all.
Once again I'll state it clear....ASL-only deaf are those that can not read a note, legal form, doctor's instruction, etc.because of their lack of reading skill...also they can not write a note to let there doctor know of a problem ("stomach hurt", is not enough, that quitting could even led to death), can not explain to a police officer what caused an accident, can not explain to an employee why he/she is the best for the position not in writing because of the lack of writing skill. They need an ASL interpreters help here. But put that person with a group of deaf using ASL, and they can go 100mph with their conversation. Got it now??

Just in case, re-read my posts where I you're into hearing kids that can run their mouth 100mph but can't read nor write worth a nickle.

 

[Smithtr]

I am shocked on damn it on reading lots of more many on high strong! 0_o wow interesting!

I am lots of research find more more complication and difficult! wow

changelle, give up because struggle your through focus on role ASL!

effort and courage to learn it communication skills level promotes

 

[rolling7]

You are proposing that a blog be added to the criteria for Federal and State funding?

This is for the parents and should be set up by them and managed by them, much like a modern day P.T.A. Keep the federal and states hands out of this. But it does not hurt to ask for a donation, it would be the first good thing Bill Gates did for Americans after getting rich off them.

 

[rolling7]

I am shocked on damn it on reading lots of more many on high strong! 0_o wow interesting!

I am lots of research find more more complication and difficult! wow

changelle, give up because struggle your through focus on role ASL!

effort and courage to learn it communication skills level promotes

Welcome, there seems to be more and more Canadians here. The more the better.
B.T.W. I was pulling for the Canadian women soccer team to win yesterday, so sorry they lost. Schmind is one hot looking babe.

 

[jillio]

Sorry, I won't scoop to calling a name I really want to. These volunteers give hours and hours of their time. They even spend out of pocket $$$ to help clients. I've personally thrown I FORGET how many parties to celebrate achievement by the clients. We DONOT want the client to just have a job but a future, and that requires slot of effort on our part. I'm biting my fingers here.

I was talking about the organization. Drop the defensiveness. Any organization that is concerned with helping the deaf to advance in the workplace advocates for and negotiates for accommodation.:roll:

 

[jillio]

You need to go back and re-read my posts, if you have read them at all.
Once again I'll state it clear....ASL-only deaf are those that can not read a note, legal form, doctor's instruction, etc.because of their lack of reading skill...also they can not write a note to let there doctor know of a problem ("stomach hurt", is not enough, that quitting could even led to death), can not explain to a police officer what caused an accident, can not explain to an employee why he/she is the best for the position not in writing because of the lack of writing skill. They need an ASL interpreters help here. But put that person with a group of deaf using ASL, and they can go 100mph with their conversation. Got it now??

Just in case, re-read my posts where I you're into hearing kids that can run their mouth 100mph but can't read nor write worth a nickle.

Yep, I've read all of your posts. They simply are not very clear as to meaning.

So, you are saying that ASL only includes those who can and do use written English to some degree?

 

[jillio]

This is for the parents and should be set up by them and managed by them, much like a modern day P.T.A. Keep the federal and states hands out of this. But it does not hurt to ask for a donation, it would be the first good thing Bill Gates did for Americans after getting rich off them.

But this is what you said:

Ask Bill Gates to donate money from his foundation so that each and every school...heating, deaf oral, deaf state, deaf Asl, etc...has a blog. This, to me, should be a requirement if schools want taxpayers money.

So, again, I ask: you are proposing that a blog be mandatory criterion to receiving federal and state funding?

 

[shel90]

Exactly. Which totally negates this "ASL only" supposition.

I know a few Deaf people who are illiterate but not because of ASL. Because something happened when they were little ..lack of language access, poor attendance, poor education, or LD in reading? I dont ask them.

However, I have worked with one student who has a severe LD in reading in which he forgets what he has read..he is getting intensive reading intervention.

 

[Smithtr]

Welcome, there seems to be more and more Canadians here. The more the better.
B.T.W. I was pulling for the Canadian women soccer team to win yesterday, so sorry they lost. Schmind is one hot looking babe.

Really oh I see I am interesting! that is nice you watch on hot looking babe
you means talk sport

I am pretty seems lots of ASL many, I notice asl poor education not enough understand role and skills I am pretty notice people not understand ESl misunderstand confused, attending not enough weak! not responsiblity

 

[rolling7]

But this is what you said:

Ask Bill Gates to donate money from his foundation so that each and every school...heating, deaf oral, deaf state, deaf Asl, etc...has a blog. This, to me, should be a requirement if schools want taxpayers money.

So, again, I ask: you are proposing that a blog be mandatory criterion to receiving federal and state funding?

RE-READ IT AGAIN!!! If schools want TAXPAYERS money!!!
School districts have their own taxpayer base. They have, stupidly I know, ask for federal and/our state assistance but should never do that.
Go back and re-read my lusty about my grandfather and the government keeping its nose out of education. Why else is education a huge mess.
That is not a question for you, it is a factual statement.

 

[jillio]

I know a few Deaf people who are illiterate but not because of ASL. Because something happened when they were little ..lack of language access, poor attendance, poor education, or LD in reading? I dont ask them.

However, I have worked with one student who has a severe LD in reading in which he forgets what he has read..he is getting intensive reading intervention.

Right. But illiterate is a bit different from being ASL only. The word "only" implies that the person does not use English in any form or any situation. I know of Deaf that are functionally illiterate, or not as literate as would be expected, but I know of no D/deaf who use ASL only. They have to use English at some point in time, even if it is just to write a note requesting an interpreter.

Generally, it is lack of access and language delays combined. There is a specific disorder called "disorder of reading" and one called "disorder of written language". Those are learning disorders, and can affect hearing as well as deaf.

 

[shel90]

Right. But illiterate is a bit different from being ASL only. The word "only" implies that the person does not use English in any form or any situation. I know of Deaf that are functionally illiterate, or not as literate as would be expected, but I know of no D/deaf who use ASL only. They have to use English at some point in time, even if it is just to write a note requesting an interpreter.

Generally, it is lack of access and language delays combined. There is a specific disorder called "disorder of reading" and one called "disorder of written language". Those are learning disorders, and can affect hearing as well as deaf.

This all started when Rolling7 said that ASL hinders the language development of deaf children.

 

[jillio]

RE-READ IT AGAIN!!! If schools want TAXPAYERS money!!!
School districts have their own taxpayer base. They have, stupidly I know, ask for federal and/our state assistance but should never do that.
Go back and re-read my lusty about my grandfather and the government keeping its nose out of education. Why else is education a huge mess.
That is not a question for you, it is a factual statement.

I read it the first time. Taxpayers money is state and federal funding. All public schools receive it. Local taxes as well, go to fund education. Again, that would be district funding. Maybe it is not my reading that is the issue, but the fact that you obviously don't know what you are saying.

No fact to that statement. The fact of the matter is, many children would never receive an education of any kind were it not for public schools and mandated attendance.

 

[jillio]

This all started when Rolling7 said that ASL hinders the language development of deaf children.

Yep. And he keeps referrring to ASL only. I stated that I don't know of a single individual who uses ASL only, and he keeps claiming that there are many. But then he contradicts himself. I was trying to find out just exactly how he defined "ASL only".

And also incorrect is the statement that ASL hinders the language development of deaf children. I think I was the first one to point out that his statement was wrong.

And ASL use is not responsible for illiteracy, either. Failure of the educational system to address the needs of deaf children is the responsible party.

 

[GrendelQ]

This all started when Rolling7 said that ASL hinders the language development of deaf children.

To be fair, his original point was pro-bilingual access to language -- that either ASL-only or oral-only result in the oppression of deaf children, whether it was by choice or because of educational circumstances. He was later challenged that there is no such thing as ASL-only which resulting in him reemphasizing that ASL alone is problematic. But just like knowing a handful of basic signs doesn't remedy the disadvantages of being oral-only, neither does knowing enough English to scribble a note requesting an interpreter remedy the disadvantages of being ASL-only and not fluent in written English. He didn't say that ASL hinders language development or that ASL is responsible for illiteracy.

 

[shel90]

To be fair, his original point was pro-bilingual access to language -- that either ASL-only or oral-only result in the oppression of deaf children, whether it was by choice or because of educational circumstances. He was later challenged that there is no such thing as ASL-only which resulting in him reemphasizing that ASL alone is problematic. But just like knowing a handful of basic signs doesn't remedy the disadvantages of being oral-only, neither does knowing enough English to scribble a note requesting an interpreter remedy the disadvantages of being ASL-only and not fluent in written English. He didn't say that ASL hinders language development.

But did he say that ASL hindered the language development of Deaf children? Why do you keep excusing him?

It is like saying spoken English hinders the language development of hearing children.

 

[jillio]

But did he say that ASL hindered the language development of Deaf children? Why do you keep excusing him?

It is like saying spoken English hinders the language development of hearing children.

Yes, he did say that, and I quoted him in my reply and then copied and pasted the quote in a couple of other replies.

And he is using ASL using adults that are semi-literate as his basis for saying that ASL hinders language development in children.

Again, I maintain that there is no such thing as ASL only. And that ASL use does not hinder language development. Lack of early ASL input hinders language development and also impacts literacy. It is exactly the opposite of what he is portraying.

 

[rolling7]

Yep. And he keeps referrring to ASL only. I stated that I don't know of a single individual who uses ASL only, and he keeps claiming that there are many. But then he contradicts himself. I was trying to find out just exactly how he defined "ASL only".

And also incorrect is the statement that ASL hinders the language development of deaf children. I think I was the first one to point out that his statement was wrong.

And ASL use is not responsible for illiteracy, either. Failure of the educational system to address the needs of deaf children is the responsible party.

Did you even read #781?? Oh well, some purple just can't be satisfied.

 

[GrendelQ]

Yes, he did say that, and I quoted him in my reply and then copied and pasted the quote in a couple of other replies.

And he is using ASL using adults that are semi-literate as his basis for saying that ASL hinders language development in children.

Again, I maintain that there is no such thing as ASL only. And that ASL use does not hinder language development. Lack of early ASL input hinders language development and also impacts literacy. It is exactly the opposite of what he is portraying.

But, you didn't quote him, you paraphrased him several times. If you take his actual quote, directly, especially considering it in context, he is saying something different from how you are interpreting it. He is using "ASL-only" in the same way that people say oral-only, which -- in the way you define ASL-only -- is also nonexistent. He has not said that ASL hinders language development -- he has said that ASL taught and used alone -- without written English -- hinders language development just like oral-only without written English hinders language development. Not something that I agree with, but distinctly different from saying that ASL hinders language development.

 

[jillio]

But, you didn't quote him, you paraphrased him several times. If you take his actual quote, directly, especially considering it in context, he is saying something different from how you are interpreting it. He is using "ASL-only" in the same way that people say oral-only, which -- in the way you define ASL-only -- is also nonexistent. He has not said that ASL hinders language development -- he has said that ASL taught and used alone -- without written English -- hinders language development. Not something that I agree with, but distinctly different from saying that ASL hinders language development.

If you will scroll back, you will discover that I did, indeed, quote him exactly in more than one post. Now, you are paraphrasing what he said. The posts are still there. All you have to do is scroll back to see that he did indeed say that ASL hinders language development.

Here is the difference. ASL only does not exist. Oral only does. As in the use of an aurally based language such as English.

And could you please direct me to any situation where ASL is taught without the use of written English? I certainly don't know of one. That would be a strange academic program, indeed. Couldn't even use textbooks. And since that situation does not occur, it is impossible to state that it would have any impact whatsoever. It is hypothetical, and unrealistic, to boot. You cannot study that which does not exist, and it you can't study it, you can't determine the impact.