District files appeal against deaf student

[shel90]

Yeppers! And I am dealing with that first wave of CI kids hitting college that rick mentioned. They have the same difficulties educationally that anyother deaf child raised orally has. The exception is the deaf CI child raised bilingually with sign and speech. And that is exactly why it is necessaryto continue speaking out agianst an oral only educational philosophy.

What kinds of difficulties did they face that would separate them from non CI users that were raised orally only? Any differences or similarities? Just curious cuz I keep getting told that I cant compare myself to CI users cuz I dont have one. Well, if that's the case then what are the differences?

 

[jillio]

In response to your post #587:

This isn't about raising children, it's about educating deaf children. Closed minded ins the refusal to consider providing a deaf child with all the communication tools available, and to insist on oral only education based on fallacy. That is what you are doing, not I. There are many ways to raise a deaf child, or a hearing child, for that matter, but there ar not many ways to insure that they are educated and achieve educationally on the same level as their hearing peers. Your case proves that.

What do you know of Deaf Culture? You are an oralist, and your kids are oral. They don't particpate in Deaf Culture, nor do you, by your won admission. So how is it that you are making sure that your children have a connection to Deaf Culture?

And frankly, I could care less what you think of me, as well. Your beliefs in general only concern me when they have the possibility of having a negative impact on the education of deaf children--not your children, not my child, but deaf children as a group. And beliefs that you espouse in the name of providing opportunity are the variable that is singly most responsible for for the educational difficulties experienced by deaf children as a group. Therefore, I have a moral obligation as a parent of a Deaf child and the community to which he belongs, and a professional obligationa s a counselor and educator whose profession it is to try to help these kids overcome the harm that idea such as yours have caused for them, to point out your fallacy, your inconsistency, and your errors.

I find it quite telling that you never bothered to visit this board prior to the news article concerning your daughter was posted. It is quite obvious what your motivations are. Nor do you bother to enter into any of the other threads to chat with members of the Deaf community to become informed on how these issues impact their lives in all ways. You limit yourself to attempting to defend your position, and have no interst in actually understanding the issues from the Deaf/ deaf point of view. It is all about you and your daughter, and how well she is doing as an oral person. So, I will ask you agian, if she is as successful as you say, and has integrated into hearing society to the extent that you claim, what is all the hoopla about?[/QUOTE]


True..if the CIs make her hearing enough to communicate easily through different rooms, hear what people are saying on the radio and so on..then there would be no need for CART. Since, there is a need for a CART in her case, then that means deaf/hoh are still not getting full access to information in the educational setting therefore delaying them unless they are super achievers but we cant assume that all children will have that innate skill to fill in all the missing gaps. So, CIs dont give children all access to info without a visual aid do they? It is either they do or they dont. That's why I have my concerns and I feel the BiBi approach would help all of them since it provides both approaches. I guess there must be something wrong with using sign language in the educational setting.

YOU GOT IT, SHEL! They can't argue both sides of the issue. Either CI has integrated their children into the hearing world or it hasn't. And the issue does seem to be about the use of sign, not full access.

 

[rick48]

Jackie,

First, how did it go when you appeared before the Commission the other day?

Second, pay no attention to Jillio she just a troll. I was going to comment further but her reply to you in 592 just shows how desperate she is.

My reply was to Jackie, not to you. Therefore, your reply is not necessary. And your name calling is further evidence that you are simply unable to support your arguments with solid fact. Hence, you attempt to divert the issues with childish tactics. That is indication of TRUE desperation.

Third, you made very good points about the difference between what people without cis and those with cis can hear. It has been said many times that you just cannot compare one's experiences growing up in the pre-ci era with those of the ci kids of today. My daughter is profoundly deaf, a clssic "left corner audigram" even with the most powerful HAs she heard virtually nothing but with her ci it goes so far beyond just one to one conversation but being able to talk on the phone, when she is either in a different room or even floor in our house, down the street and so on. But these are only a few examples and they are not being cited merely to show just what they hear but as examples of how being able to hear allows them to participate in the fabric of everyday life. For her and for many other thousands of other cis kids, the cochlear implant has removed or lessened obstacles in their lives, barriers between them and the over 99% of the rest of their world that does not use a manual language and generally made their lives easier.


where exactly did you get the statistic that 99% of the world is oral? Pull it out of your buttt like most of your other statistics? AND, once agian, you read what you want to. No one has said that CI is not beneficial. What we have said, and will continue to say, is that it does not remove all barriers and does not allow a deaf child tofunction as a hearing child, but as an HH child. If it solved all the problems and removed all of the barriers, the issue of Jackie requesting CART for her own children would never have arisen. They wouldn't need it because they could function as hearing children. You defeat your own arguments.

As you know the first wave of ci kids are just starting to hit college. It will be exciting over the next 10-15 years as they graduate and begin to take their place within both the mainstream and the deaf community.

Finally, you keep doing what your doing and if the use of the media helps your daughter in her case, then by all means use the press to her advantage. I guess the press is really just another "tool" in your toolbox approach to winning your case!

Yeah, lets just throw these kids out there in front of the media and see if we can't make their differences even more obvious to everyone. I thought the CI wa supposed to provide integration so that the hearing loss wasn't an issue. This tactic falls back on the old "this child is different, not the same" argument. Yet you and jackie continually argue that your children are jsut like the hearing children intheir classrooms. Whcih is it? Does it change according to your purpose and whim?

You are losing it Jillio, must really eat at you that someone else's child is getting attention.

 

[jillio]

What kinds of difficulties did they face that would separate them from non CI users that were raised orally only? Any differences or similarities? Just curious cuz I keep getting told that I cant compare myself to CI users cuz I dont have one. Well, if that's the case then what are the differences?

There aren't any differences. The CI users that were raised and educated orally are having the same problems that HA users raised and educated orally were having prior to CI becoming available. That's what is so frustrating. They can't seem to understand that a deaf child that functions as an HH child, whether they are assisted by HA or CI is the same.

 

[jillio]

You are losing it Jillio, must really eat at you that someone else's child is getting attention.

Where the hell did you come up with that one? You really are childish. And again, have you made that doantion to St. Rita School for the Deaf yet?

Can't you answer the questions in the post you replied to? Are they too hard for you?

 

[deafdyke]

The CI users that were raised and educated orally are having the same problems that HA users raised and educated orally were having prior to CI becoming available. That's what is so frustrating. They can't seem to understand that a deaf child that functions as an HH child, whether they are assisted by HA or CI is the same.

AMEN!!!! Why doesn't that surprise me?
Rick and Jackie, what you two don't understand is that HH is HH no matter WHAT the device is! There are and were still a significent minority of severe and profounders who are pretty much functionally hh WITH hearing aids. CI kids are NOT plowing new ground. HH with hearing aid kids have already been there and done that! They have NOT assimulated too well into society. There's still RAMPENT unemployment, drug abuse, alchohol abuse, realtionship issues etc etc etc among hh kids! Yes, I know that your view on these things might be really biased b/c your kids have done well, and b/c you're affliated with an organization that seems to really attract oral sucesses (and sucesses in all defintions)
Just b/c a small number have done well, it doesn't mean EVERYONE has done that well. Ten or twenty years ago when hearing aids were more popular, parents like you were all but assured "Yes! Your child can and will suceed in the mainstream hearing world!" Gee *looks around* Doesn't seem like that happened. And most of THOSE kids were like yours........There willbe some acheivers, but I think history is just gonna repeat itself.

 

[shel90]

AMEN!!!! Why doesn't that surprise me?
Rick and Jackie, what you two don't understand is that HH is HH no matter WHAT the device is! There are and were still a significent minority of severe and profounders who are pretty much functionally hh WITH hearing aids. CI kids are NOT plowing new ground. HH with hearing aid kids have already been there and done that! They have NOT assimulated too well into society. There's still RAMPENT unemployment, drug abuse, alchohol abuse, realtionship issues etc etc etc among hh kids! Yes, I know that your view on these things might be really biased b/c your kids have done well, and b/c you're affliated with an organization that seems to really attract oral sucesses (and sucesses in all defintions)
Just b/c a small number have done well, it doesn't mean EVERYONE has done that well. Ten or twenty years ago when hearing aids were more popular, parents like you were all but assured "Yes! Your child can and will suceed in the mainstream hearing world!" Gee *looks around* Doesn't seem like that happened. And most of THOSE kids were like yours........There willbe some acheivers, but I think history is just gonna repeat itself.

I keep getting told that my argument is moot because I am deaf without a CI so there is no comparision but u are Hoh so u are seeing what I am seeing too. So you can argue that point since u are HOH yourself and have experienced the same issues being mainstreamed without sign language or having a good balance btw the the hearing community and the deaf community.

I really dont see the harm of having the full toolbox but I guess to many people, they seem so afraid of using sign language in the educational setting for their children..like their children wont develop oral skills. Believe me, if we all have faith in the children and they are motivated, they WILL develop oral skills. Just have to have faith in them that's all but pls dont deny them a full access to language either.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

CART for oral students and not for signing studens is blatant discrimination. Why should an oral student be entitled to an accommodation that provides visual materials to oral deaf students and not to signing deaf students?

I think you are right I think both oral and signing students should have access to CART. I am trying to make sure that both type of students have to access to this but I have to start with my daughter and then once we are done I will help the parents of my daughter's friends to get CART written on their IEP. A lot of parents over here didn't know about this type of service and of course the school is not giving the information but I will.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

If they can both hear that well, how is it that they are missing out on so much inthe classroom?

They can hear very well. With their hearing devices they still have a mild to moderate hearing loss. They do great in a one to one basis or a small group. In a classroom there is a lot of background noises and kids tend to talk at the same time. This is whyit is hard for my kids to hear in a classroom envirnoment where there is background noises or more then a person talking at the same time.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

and Jackie, shel may not be functionally hoh but so what? I am hoh. I prolly function at the same level as your kids. Even for kids who are functionally hoh, oral only isn' the best thing in the world. Hey, I'm an aural learner, and and an oral sucess. It still didn't quite equalize me.
Oh, and we're not bashing you b/c you're oral. we simply think that it's overkill to get CART for a child who is on or very close to grade level. If you wanted to get CART b/c she wasn't doing too well at school, it would be different.
A LOT of parents I know would be damn impressed if their kids were doing that well.
One reason why a full toolbox approach is a good idear, is simple.
ASL captializes on a nautral strengh of dhh kids, that is visual processing. Why are pro-oral people ignoring that? Maybe if we pushed Sign, then the kids wouldn't have to work so hard to keep up, and they could concetrate on producing actual content. Like I have hypotonia (low muscle tone which inhibits my fine motor) I can write, but I can type even faster and better. Before I learned how to type, I was concentrating so much on production that I didn't have time for producing content. Maybe if the full toolbox apparoach was pushed more, we'd have more high acheiving deafies!
Oh and jag........just b/c a person has oral skills it doesn't mean that they will be able to interact in crowd sittuions. There's a significent number of kids who have great ne on one oral skills, but who need Sign in other instances.

Deafdyke, I am not sure where you are from but here in Califronia, in the school districts that do provide CART without a fight, one of the requirements for getting CART is that the child be able to read at grade level or close to it because they say that if a child cannot read at this level then there is no purpose for that child to get CART.

For your information I am so impressed with children. I am so proud of my children. They are amazing children that are so smart, caring, and kind. You have no idea the love and respect I have for my children.

I am not going to argue the point of ASL being better then oral. I understand and agree oral is not for all deaf children. I also understand that for my children oral has been a success.

If my children ever turn their voices, I would respect and encourage their decision if and when they make it.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Originally Posted by jackiesolorzano
Originally Posted by rick48
What a terribly mean spirited thing to say.

There is nothing mean spirited in it. Ubless of course, you see the truth as mean spirited.
What are you, her attorney?

It is mean spirited. You said that because I help my children so much that I am making the case hardier. I need to what is best for my children even if it makes the case hardier.

And you said your attorney told you the same thing.

My attorney told the same thing with kindness and respect for what I do with my children, you did not say it with kindness nor respect.

Jackie's "attitude" is one that more parents should try to emulate.
And the more parents that emulate her oralist attitude, the more deaf children will suffer. But I suppose you think that price is worth it if you can find one more person to subscribe to your limited oral viewpoint.

Jillo why do you have to be so mean. I never said that all parents should follow the oral path. But I do think all parents should be involved in their child's education and not just accept what the schools tell them.

Are you or are you not oriented toward the oralist phiposophy? I would suggest you spend your summer reading a history of dea feducation, and then you will discover exactly what oppression and exclusionthe oralist philosophy has created for deaf children throughout the United States.
She is actively invovled with her kids' education, she works long and hard with them to make certain they achieve the level of sucess that they have and she has fought a long and hard battle to successfully force her SD to provide her daughter with the appropriate services that she is entitled to receive.

Yes, I do lean towards the oral approach not for all children but yes for my children and most of my students. I have read many books regarding deaf culture and did read several for my 2 deaf studies class and even after reading these books, I wouldn't change a single decision I have made for my children.

As have many parents. What makes her so special?

She is not going to let her child's education suffer just in order to "win" her case for that would ultimately be losing the battle.

Exactly

Based on what she has posted, her daughter's education has already suffered.

Jillo you take things out of context. YEs, my daughter has had some difficulty but she has raise above these and her education has not suffered because we make up at home what is lacking at school. Like I mention before her GPA is 3.5 or 3.6

Did you ar did you not saythat she was missing things and difficulty grasping course content?Her "attitude" is that first and foremost she is not placing her daughter's education at risk just to prevail in a case. Seems to me that she has got her priorities and "attitude" right.

Too bad that are not more parents like her.

Thank God there aren't more parents
But there are lots more parents like me. Maybe you just don't want to admit it but there.

Unfortunately, there are far too many parents out there who follow the oral philsophy on mistaken assumptions. And that is exactly wahy the literacy rates and the educatioanl acievement of deaf students continues to lag behind that of their hearing peers.

While I do agree with you that there many oral deaf children that their literacy rates are not where they should be, I have seen many singing kids with that same problem. In most cases it is because the parents are not as involved in their child's education as they should be. With my children although they do miss information my goal as their parent is to ensure that they miss the least amount of information. My children literacy level is where it should be, and we work hard at home for them to be where they should be.

who are willing to sacrifice their child's education for the sake of speech. There are already too many.

If you think that a SD that has had to shell out money to their attorneys to fight Jackie at a hearing, that has lost the hearing and now will most likely have to pay Jackie's attorneys for their time, has received nothing but negative press nationwide has taken the "easy" route, then what do you consider difficult.

Obviously, the school system doesn't seem to be too worried about that. They are appealing. Remember?

The school system is very worried. I know that because of the people that I know that work for this district and district close by. It looks we are even going to get more press. We have an interview said up for next week.


If they were terribly worried about the bad press, they wouldn't pursue the appeal. Enjpoying all the press, aren't you? I think perhaps you are more concerned about the press than the school system is. I'd be very careful about what I say to the press if I were you. If you contradict yourself as much as you have onthis board, the school system can use it in their appeal to destroy your credibility.

I did not contact the media until the scool districted started their appeal. So in order for them to try to save face they have to continue what they started. But if you want think a different way that's fine.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Jackie,

First, how did it go when you appeared before the Commission the other day?

Ric the meeting went very well. The commission is going to be draft a letter and taking it in person to the special education director of our school district.

Second, pay no attention to Jillio she just a troll. I was going to comment further but her reply to you in 592 just shows how desperate she is.

I really see that too. It doesn't matter what I say, she will find some faults in it. It really is OK. I am just so happy that most people in the Deaf culture are not like her.

Third, you made very good points about the difference between what people without cis and those with cis can hear. It has been said many times that you just cannot compare one's experiences growing up in the pre-ci era with those of the ci kids of today. My daughter is profoundly deaf, a clssic "left corner audigram" even with the most powerful HAs she heard virtually nothing but with her ci it goes so far beyond just one to one conversation but being able to talk on the phone, when she is either in a different room or even floor in our house, down the street and so on. But these are only a few examples and they are not being cited merely to show just what they hear but as examples of how being able to hear allows them to participate in the fabric of everyday life. For her and for many other thousands of other cis kids, the cochlear implant has removed or lessened obstacles in their lives, barriers between them and the over 99% of the rest of their world that does not use a manual language and generally made their lives easier.

This weekend we had overnight guest. My friend's son is now 17 years old and my daughter is too. My son is a couple of years younger. this young man has a severe to profound hearing loss at the time my daughter did not have her implant yet. We were remembering that when they were around 5 years old and when we need to call them we would call my son and he would go get this young man or my daughter because he with is implant could hear us but the HA kids.

As you know the first wave of ci kids are just starting to hit college. It will be exciting over the next 10-15 years as they graduate and begin to take their place within both the mainstream and the deaf community.

I am so excited about this.

Finally, you keep doing what your doing and if the use of the media helps your daughter in her case, then by all means use the press to her advantage. I guess the press is really just another "tool" in your toolbox approach to winning your case!

Rick

Ric thank you for your support. I will use whatever it takes to ensure my children have everything they need to succeed in school.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

We did it!

We developed a linux based CART system in 9 days after receiving the grant! We beat dozens of other organizations who received grants from the same department for the same thing.

See the pics at The Orange Deafie Blog

It's party time!

Richard

WOW THIS IS JUST SO WONDERFUL. I am just so pleased. I am planning on taking my family to OC fair before it ends to see your both.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

I have no objections to that..just dont want any deaf children to fall thru the cracks and get left behind academically. Just would be nice to have the public's support and awareness of those who dont succeed with CIs or with the oral-only education. Would be really nice..

I also do not want kids to fall through the cracks this is why it is important for parents to understand that cochlear implants are not miracles and that it is a lot that is expected from parents if there child is going to have success with the implant.

 

[jillio]

AMEN!!!! Why doesn't that surprise me?
Rick and Jackie, what you two don't understand is that HH is HH no matter WHAT the device is! There are and were still a significent minority of severe and profounders who are pretty much functionally hh WITH hearing aids. CI kids are NOT plowing new ground. HH with hearing aid kids have already been there and done that! They have NOT assimulated too well into society. There's still RAMPENT unemployment, drug abuse, alchohol abuse, realtionship issues etc etc etc among hh kids! Yes, I know that your view on these things might be really biased b/c your kids have done well, and b/c you're affliated with an organization that seems to really attract oral sucesses (and sucesses in all defintions)
Just b/c a small number have done well, it doesn't mean EVERYONE has done that well. Ten or twenty years ago when hearing aids were more popular, parents like you were all but assured "Yes! Your child can and will suceed in the mainstream hearing world!" Gee *looks around* Doesn't seem like that happened. And most of THOSE kids were like yours........There willbe some acheivers, but I think history is just gonna repeat itself.

History is already repeating itself---AGAIN!

 

[jillio]

I think you are right I think both oral and signing students should have access to CART. I am trying to make sure that both type of students have to access to this but I have to start with my daughter and then once we are done I will help the parents of my daughter's friends to get CART written on their IEP. A lot of parents over here didn't know about this type of service and of course the school is not giving the information but I will.

But even before CART becomes an issue, you have to insure that they have FULL access to language.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Hmmm...our Deaf instructor is provided an interpreter for all adminsitrative meetings and consultations. And this makes no sense....she was able to communicate "very well" with you becasue she has "some oral skills", and you have "limited signing skills", but was unable to communicate with the principal because he had "no signing skills". Logical conclusion would be that she didn't communicate "well" with you either, but only limited communication. I wonder if her assessment of your communications with her would fall into the "very well" category?

You are right she should have been provided with an interpeter and I do not why she was not.
When I go back I will ask her if she would put our level of communication in the very well catergory. She did say that she couldn't understand anything my aide says and asked me what she said.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Jackie,

First, how did it go when you appeared before the Commission the other day?

Second, pay no attention to Jillio she just a troll. I was going to comment further but her reply to you in 592 just shows how desperate she is.

My reply was to Jackie, not to you. Therefore, your reply is not necessary. And your name calling is further evidence that you are simply unable to support your arguments with solid fact. Hence, you attempt to divert the issues with childish tactics. That is indication of TRUE desperation.

Third, you made very good points about the difference between what people without cis and those with cis can hear. It has been said many times that you just cannot compare one's experiences growing up in the pre-ci era with those of the ci kids of today. My daughter is profoundly deaf, a clssic "left corner audigram" even with the most powerful HAs she heard virtually nothing but with her ci it goes so far beyond just one to one conversation but being able to talk on the phone, when she is either in a different room or even floor in our house, down the street and so on. But these are only a few examples and they are not being cited merely to show just what they hear but as examples of how being able to hear allows them to participate in the fabric of everyday life. For her and for many other thousands of other cis kids, the cochlear implant has removed or lessened obstacles in their lives, barriers between them and the over 99% of the rest of their world that does not use a manual language and generally made their lives easier.


where exactly did you get the statistic that 99% of the world is oral? Pull it out of your buttt like most of your other statistics? AND, once agian, you read what you want to. No one has said that CI is not beneficial. What we have said, and will continue to say, is that it does not remove all barriers and does not allow a deaf child tofunction as a hearing child, but as an HH child. If it solved all the problems and removed all of the barriers, the issue of Jackie requesting CART for her own children would never have arisen. They wouldn't need it because they could function as hearing children. You defeat your own arguments.

As you know the first wave of ci kids are just starting to hit college. It will be exciting over the next 10-15 years as they graduate and begin to take their place within both the mainstream and the deaf community.

Finally, you keep doing what your doing and if the use of the media helps your daughter in her case, then by all means use the press to her advantage. I guess the press is really just another "tool" in your toolbox approach to winning your case!

Yeah, lets just throw these kids out there in front of the media and see if we can't make their differences even more obvious to everyone. I thought the CI wa supposed to provide integration so that the hearing loss wasn't an issue. This tactic falls back on the old "this child is different, not the same" argument. Yet you and jackie continually argue that your children are jsut like the hearing children intheir classrooms. Whcih is it? Does it change according to your purpose and whim?

Jillo, I cannot talk about other parents I have never argued that my kids hearing loss is not issue. It is an issue like you said even with their implant they still function like a person with a mild to slightly moderate hearing loss. My kids are different but so are most of us in one form or another. As a child growing up I was severely overweight and wore coke bottle type glasses. And this is what I have taught my children that we are all different in one way or another. I have never said that my kids are just like hearing kids. What I have said is that my kids are extremely smart that they hear a lot not everything that if they had the right accommdations for their needs they could access the curriulum. I have also said that my kids can function in the hearing world without having an interpeter with them. The can communicate on a one to one basis or in a small group. They can talk on both land lines and cell phones. They have ver clear speech. /COLOR]

 

[jillio]

Originally Posted by jackiesolorzano
Originally Posted by rick48
What a terribly mean spirited thing to say.

There is nothing mean spirited in it. Ubless of course, you see the truth as mean spirited.
What are you, her attorney?

It is mean spirited. You said that because I help my children so much that I am making the case hardier. I need to what is best for my children even if it makes the case hardier.

And you said your attorney told you the same thing.

My attorney told the same thing with kindness and respect for what I do with my children, you did not say it with kindness nor respect.

That's your interpretation. So, you have an attorney, a professional counselor working with college age deaf students, and educator fo the deaf, and numerous others telling you the same thing, and still you hang onto your erroneous beliefs, and claim that we are all wrong, and you are right.Hmmmm......ever hear of "selective deafness". It involves not the inability to hear, but the refusal to do so.

Jackie's "attitude" is one that more parents should try to emulate.
And the more parents that emulate her oralist attitude, the more deaf children will suffer. But I suppose you think that price is worth it if you can find one more person to subscribe to your limited oral viewpoint.

Jillo why do you have to be so mean. I never said that all parents should follow the oral path. But I do think all parents should be involved in their child's education and not just accept what the schools tell them.

And I stand by my assertion. If it takes insulting a few strict oralists to insure that ALL deaf children are receiving an adequate education, then so be it. You are not the one on the short end of the stick here.....the deaf children who are being inadequately educated are. I will continue to advocate for them. If you get your feelings hurt in the process, oh, well. Your feelings aren't the issue. THE EDUCATION OF ALL DEAF CHILDREN IS THE ISSUE!

Are you or are you not oriented toward the oralist phiposophy? I would suggest you spend your summer reading a history of dea feducation, and then you will discover exactly what oppression and exclusionthe oralist philosophy has created for deaf children throughout the United States.
She is actively invovled with her kids' education, she works long and hard with them to make certain they achieve the level of sucess that they have and she has fought a long and hard battle to successfully force her SD to provide her daughter with the appropriate services that she is entitled to receive.

Yes, I do lean towards the oral approach not for all children but yes for my children and most of my students. I have read many books regarding deaf culture and did read several for my 2 deaf studies class and even after reading these books, I wouldn't change a single decision I have made for my children.

Like I said, selective deafness. You have had 2 deaf studies classes, and consider yourself expert enough to make decisions for other people's children regarding issues such as educational environment? What about the people who have lived it? Are they not more of an expert than yourself? Your perspective is so ethnocentric as to be genocidal.

As have many parents. What makes her so special?

She is not going to let her child's education suffer just in order to "win" her case for that would ultimately be losing the battle.

Exactly

Based on what she has posted, her daughter's education has already suffered.

Jillo you take things out of context. YEs, my daughter has had some difficulty but she has raise above these and her education has not suffered because we make up at home what is lacking at school. Like I mention before her GPA is 3.5 or 3.6

I didn';t take anything out of context. You are the one that made the statement. Either she is having difficulty or she isn't having difficulty. And her gpa doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot without her IEP information as well. Many mainstream schools hold deaf students to lesser standards just to get them through the system, put a diploma in their hands, and get them out of the way. Then they arrive at college so under prepared that they spend their first two years in rememdial classes. And the whole time the parents are still saying, "Gee, they made A's in high school. It must be the college's fault."

Did you ar did you not saythat she was missing things and difficulty grasping course content?Her "attitude" is that first and foremost she is not placing her daughter's education at risk just to prevail in a case. Seems to me that she has got her priorities and "attitude" right.

Too bad that are not more parents like her.

Thank God there aren't more parents
But there are lots more parents like me. Maybe you just don't want to admit it but there.

And like I said, there are far too many. And a s long as there are parents who insist on the oral only approach, we will have lags int he educational achievement of deaf students.
Unfortunately, there are far too many parents out there who follow the oral philsophy on mistaken assumptions. And that is exactly wahy the literacy rates and the educatioanl acievement of deaf students continues to lag behind that of their hearing peers.

While I do agree with you that there many oral deaf children that their literacy rates are not where they should be, I have seen many singing kids with that same problem. In most cases it is because the parents are not as involved in their child's education as they should be. With my children although they do miss information my goal as their parent is to ensure that they miss the least amount of information. My children literacy level is where it should be, and we work hard at home for them to be where they should be.



And if you agree with that, why are you not devoting your time to doing something about that? After all, byu your own admission, your daughter is already successful. Do you not have any empathy for the students who still suffer because they are placed in an environment that leads to their impovershed language? Why aren't your efforts directed at changing the whole system sothat these studnets do not continue to suffer rather than fighting only for an oral child who, by your own words, is already educationally successful?
If there literacy level was up to par, they wouldn't continue to have problems with course content.

who are willing to sacrifice their child's education for the sake of speech. There are already too many.

If you think that a SD that has had to shell out money to their attorneys to fight Jackie at a hearing, that has lost the hearing and now will most likely have to pay Jackie's attorneys for their time, has received nothing but negative press nationwide has taken the "easy" route, then what do you consider difficult.

Obviously, the school system doesn't seem to be too worried about that. They are appealing. Remember?

The school system is very worried. I know that because of the people that I know that work for this district and district close by. It looks we are even going to get more press. We have an interview said up for next week.


If they were terribly worried about the bad press, they wouldn't pursue the appeal. Enjpoying all the press, aren't you? I think perhaps you are more concerned about the press than the school system is. I'd be very careful about what I say to the press if I were you. If you contradict yourself as much as you have onthis board, the school system can use it in their appeal to destroy your credibility.

I did not contact the media until the scool districted started their appeal. So in order for them to try to save face they have to continue what they started. But if you want think a different way that's fine.

ah, but you did contact the media. It would appear that you are the one that is worried about the appeal, and attempting to garner as much support form the uninformed public as possible. However, this will not assist you in your court case, as the uninformed public is not going to have a say inthe decision. All that publicity has only managed to relegate your daughter to the status of "poor little deaf girl" in the eyes of the hearing public. If you wanted support for your attempt to gain CART services, you wouldhave done much better to spend your time garnering the support of the DEAF community, and the true experts on deaf education.....the deaf themselves. Have you turned to the uniformed hearing public for support because you cannot find the support for your oralist attitudes withingthe deaf community perhaps?

And you didn't answer another question. As you claim to be making sure that your children are around "positive members of the deaf community, how is it that you are doing so without active particiaption in Deaf culture?

 

[jackiesolorzano]

In response to your post #587:

This isn't about raising children, it's about educating deaf children. Closed minded
Closed minded people also close their minds to other ideas because they think they are right and everybody else is wrong, i
ns the refusal to consider providing a deaf child with all the communication tools available, and to insist on oral only education based on fallacy.
I guess my kids are living in a fallacy along with many of their friends. I will make sure to tell their parents.
That is what you are doing, not I. There are many ways to raise a deaf child, or a hearing child, for that matter, but there ar not many ways to insure that they are educated and achieve educationally on the same level as their hearing peers. Your case proves that.

What do you know of Deaf Culture?
I do not know all about the Deaf clulture but I do know some things from the classes I have taken, from the books I have read, and from the people I have met.


You are an oralist, and your kids are oral. They don't particpate in Deaf Culture, nor do you, by your won admission.

I have never said that we do not participate in the Deaf culture just because we are oral does not mean that we do not participate in the Deaf culture.

Please read carefully what I have said. Yes, my kids are oral but they do participate in Deaf culture events. My daughter was part of deaf cheerleading squad and her teacher is deaf and is part of the Deaf culture. Her teacher is a college professor who teaches the ASL classes at our local community college. My daughter went to her first prom this year at a high school that has over 100 d/hh students. Her date was a young man that has no oral kids and is part of the Deaf culture. She went with a group of about 16 kids and only one was hearing and only 3 of the d/hh kids had oral skills. While she is not directly involved in the Deaf culture she is surrond by them. Just this weekend my son had a friend who only signs that stayed overnight. Both of my children are involved either directly or indirectly with the Deaf culture and if that is not enough for you, it doesn't really matter.

So how is it that you are making sure that your children have a connection to Deaf Culture?

[COLOR="blue"]By making sure they have contact with other kids their age that sign. I taken them usually once a month to the monthly starbuck event that a lot of deaf people go to. I have taken them to sports events from her old high school. And if that is not enough for your approval I am sorry. COLOR]

And frankly, I could care less what you think of me, as well. Your beliefs in general only concern me when they have the possibility of having a negative impact on the education of deaf children--not your children, not my child, but deaf children as a group.

Do you think that with all of your negative comments towards me you are going be able to change my mind.

And beliefs that you espouse in the name of providing opportunity are the variable that is singly most responsible for for the educational difficulties experienced by deaf children as a group. Therefore, I have a moral obligation as a parent of a Deaf child and the community to which he belongs, and a professional obligationa s a counselor and educator whose profession it is to try to help these kids overcome the harm that idea such as yours have caused for them, to point out your fallacy, your inconsistency, and your errors.

If you really want to make those changes then maybe you should change the age group that you are working with. You should go into a parent/infant program where you would have more contact with parents like I do. You are most certainly not going to change my mind with all of your negative comments,

I find it quite telling that you never bothered to visit this board prior to the news article concerning your daughter was posted. It is quite obvious what your motivations are.

You are so right, I never even heard of this board before. I googled my daughter's name and found this board. I saw several negative comments and is why I entered this board. My motivation is now and will always be ensuring that my children's rights are being met. No doubt about it. My children are always first in my mind.

Nor do you bother to enter into any of the other threads to chat with members of the Deaf community to become informed on how these issues impact their lives in all ways.

Why would I enter another thread you bash me enough here, why would I look for more punishment.

You limit yourself to attempting to defend your position
and have no interst in actually understanding the issues from the Deaf/ deaf point of view. It is all about you and your daughter, and how well she is doing as an oral person.

As my children's mother that is all that I concern about is my children, they are now and will always be my primary focus. I became a teacher because of my children. I am the person I am today because of my children. And we are not just focused on how they are doing as oral individuals but how they are going as individuals.

So, I will ask you agian, if she is as successful as you say, and has integrated into hearing society to the extent that you claim, what is all the hoopla about?[/QUOTE]

The hoopla as you call is about ensuring that my children that are deaf receive the accommdations that they need to access the curriulum that is what it was about in the beginnning and is what it is about now.



True..if the CIs make her hearing enough to communicate easily through different rooms, hear what people are saying on the radio and so on..then there would be no need for CART. Since, there is a need for a CART in her case, then that means deaf/hoh are still not getting full access to information in the educational setting therefore delaying them unless they are super achievers but we cant assume that all children will have that innate skill to fill in all the missing gaps. So, CIs dont give children all access to info without a visual aid do they? It is either they do or they dont. That's why I have my concerns and I feel the BiBi approach would help all of them since it provides both approaches. I guess there must be something wrong with using sign language in the educational setting.

I have never said there is anything wrong with using sign language in an educational setting. Sign language was not our choice but I never ever said that sign language is bad choice but it was not our choice. Parents have the right to choose they route they want. I just want parents to have all the information to make inform decisions.
AGAIN, My children do very well with their CI'S since both you and Jillo work in a educational anvirnoment you understand about background noise. This is an area that is hard for most people who have a hearing loss no matter what the lose is. Background noise makes it hardier for my children to understand and hear everything that is going on. The other reason that my daughter needs CART is because in a typical classroom the students particpate in classroom discussions. This is an area that my daughter has a lot of problems understanding everybody talking at the same time. During classroom discussions it would be hard for a signing student to understand everything because an interpeter cannot interpet everything when there are several students talking whereas a CART provider has to be able to type 220 words per minute.