Declaration of Occupy Wall Street

Status
Not open for further replies.
darkdog said:
There are the Ron Paul types. I doubt they'd call themselves conservative, or if they did, they would distance themselves from what we normally refer to as conservative. But for the most part, it's a leftist movement.
Click to expand...

Leftist? Care to elaborate on what makes OWS a leftist movement?
 
darkdog said:
There are the Ron Paul types. I doubt they'd call themselves conservative, or if they did, they would distance themselves from what we normally refer to as conservative. But for the most part, it's a leftist movement.
Click to expand...

So you don't know? Why didn't you just say so, then? Your bias is showing, but no biggie. :)
 
DeafCaroline said:
When Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat, she was breaking the law...sometimes civil disobedience is necessary when the laws are unjust.
Click to expand...
To protest such an indefensible unjust law by breaking said unjust law and meekly accepting the consequences is a noble thing. That's not what's happening here. They're not protesting laws about sanitation, excess noise, or permits to have a large gathering. They're not actually protesting any of the laws they're breaking- they're just breaking them.

DeafCaroline said:
Anyway, I get your point and I do wish some of the protestors would stop giving others a bad name and detracting from the whole point of OWS.
Click to expand...
There you go. There's a constructive way to protest, and there's this.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Leftist? Care to elaborate on what makes OWS a leftist movement?
Click to expand...
The emphasis on more government power over the economy. And all the leftists.

Beowulf said:
So you don't know? Why didn't you just say so, then? Your bias is showing, but no biggie. :)
Click to expand...
Am I wrong? You're a Ron Paul guy. Would you appreciate being lumped in with typical conservatives? The Ron Paul crowd likes to call themselves "true conservatives" to distance themselves from traditional conservatives. That's what I'm talking about.
 
darkdog said:
The emphasis on more government power over the economy. And all the leftists.


Am I wrong? You're a Ron Paul guy. Would you appreciate being lumped in with typical conservatives? The Ron Paul crowd likes to call themselves "true conservatives" to distance themselves from traditional conservatives. That's what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

I don't know if you are wrong or right, and really, what does it matter? I don't think the protesters can be lumped under one label or description, since there are all sorts of folk involved, nor do I think there is just a single common denominator among them, except perhaps for a feeling, a feeling of deep dissatisfaction and the desire to have deeply-felt needs met, whatever they may be. There is a seeming difficulty in articulating the dissatisfaction, but that doesn't make them void or illicit: in fact, this movement will probably be spread worldwide, and that shows you the indefinable link between people, and to pooh pooh them is to sneer at all mankind. When you bring together the full spectrum that mankind has to offer, there are bound to be troublemakers as well as peacemakers, and far too much attention is being paid to their behavior than the message they are trying to deliver.
Am I a Ron Paul guy? I shook his hand and I have respect for him, but at this point it doesn't amount to more than that. I laugh at others who warn me of being "lumped with" other factions in the political spectrum, because I don't give two hoots what others think.
 
Last edited:
darkdog said:
The emphasis on more government power over the economy. And all the leftists.
Click to expand...

darkdog, I know you love capitalism and free economy. That's great, and you're loving what is natural, we are born and made to barter and trade for survival. This generates competition to produce the best products and services. this is to our advantage to be competitive although it has its dark side which is corruption, of which, when runs unmonitored, can result in very bad things happening when obscene greed is what generated the lending boom that they knew all along could not be sustained for long and yet despite this, they kept selling the loans on the open markets unchecked.

It was greed and corruption that crumbled the all mighty Wall Street and the government, both Democrats and Republicans agreed to mind their own business and not interfere and started repealing bit by bit of the Glass Steagall act. The Glass Steagall Act, aka government regulation, is what kept the economy secure for 45 years. Practically the year after the first repeal of the Glass Steagall act, Wall Street got greedy and the first financial crisis hits. The next repeal leading to less government regulation led to another hard hit on the economy, anyone remember Savings and Loans Crisis?

When Wall Street got deregulated, there was no one around keeping an eye on their activities and holding them accountable. It's like letting wild dogs loose. Wall Streeters are type-A personalities who love having money and power and control. They want more and more which means having so much control that consumers buy their products. Monsanto is a perfect example of that. Meanwhile, banks got greedy selling loans on the open market, hence the easy lending years. But when the banks they borrowed the money from came a-calling for their dues, the smaller banks panicked and in a very underhanded way, endeavoured to foreclose America. They did this by claims of not receiving payments to illegally adjusting the interest rates making monthly mortgage payments go up forcing people to foreclose. bankers just wanted to sell those houses fast and get their money to pay the big banks. it was an utter mess.

It is neither a leftist nor rightist issue to demand the government holds Wall Street accountable for ripping off America and violating the laws. It's a people's issue. Wall Street doesn't care if you're Democrat or Republican, they care about getting your money even if that means fucking you over.

Wall Street convinced the government deregulation would be better for the economy, but the truth is, the economy was stable for 45 years when it was regulated. History speaks for itself.

Trade and competition is healthy and normal and vital and it's very good for the economy. Corruption and greed running rampant unmonitored and unchecked is not.

The people have the right to demand the government to fire Wall Street advisers who were among the responsible parties for the 2008 collapse.

It's not a leftist thing to demand Wall Street get a leash so they don't run roughshod over America and leave a trail behind them of devastated people, who are both Democrats and Republicans.

This is what OWS about and I'm pissed off that the media is focusing on bad behaviour of some of the protestors and I'm pissed off at those protestors for being so stupid and destroying the message of the cause they claim to uphold.
 
When I said that people got rich before Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations and that they would get rich after the end of Capitalism in another thread, I didn't have Communism in mind as replacement at all. So what will replace Capitalism? I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine. People still will trade and barter long after Capitalism fall out of favor when a new and better idea comes along.

I simply want to see people & institutions held accountable in wake of the 2008 diasters and beyond. There are other issues as well but my focus is on Wall Street and government corruption.
 
DeafCaroline said:
darkdog, I know you love capitalism and free economy. That's great, and you're loving what is natural, we are born and made to barter and trade for survival. This generates competition to produce the best products and services. this is to our advantage to be competitive although it has its dark side which is corruption, of which, when runs unmonitored, can result in very bad things happening when obscene greed is what generated the lending boom that they knew all along could not be sustained for long and yet despite this, they kept selling the loans on the open markets unchecked.

It was greed and corruption that crumbled the all mighty Wall Street and the government, both Democrats and Republicans agreed to mind their own business and not interfere and started repealing bit by bit of the Glass Steagall act. The Glass Steagall Act, aka government regulation, is what kept the economy secure for 45 years. Practically the year after the first repeal of the Glass Steagall act, Wall Street got greedy and the first financial crisis hits. The next repeal leading to less government regulation led to another hard hit on the economy, anyone remember Savings and Loans Crisis?

When Wall Street got deregulated, there was no one around keeping an eye on their activities and holding them accountable. It's like letting wild dogs loose. Wall Streeters are type-A personalities who love having money and power and control. They want more and more which means having so much control that consumers buy their products. Monsanto is a perfect example of that. Meanwhile, banks got greedy selling loans on the open market, hence the easy lending years. But when the banks they borrowed the money from came a-calling for their dues, the smaller banks panicked and in a very underhanded way, endeavoured to foreclose America. They did this by claims of not receiving payments to illegally adjusting the interest rates making monthly mortgage payments go up forcing people to foreclose. bankers just wanted to sell those houses fast and get their money to pay the big banks. it was an utter mess.

It is neither a leftist nor rightist issue to demand the government holds Wall Street accountable for ripping off America and violating the laws. It's a people's issue. Wall Street doesn't care if you're Democrat or Republican, they care about getting your money even if that means fucking you over.

Wall Street convinced the government deregulation would be better for the economy, but the truth is, the economy was stable for 45 years when it was regulated. History speaks for itself.

Trade and competition is healthy and normal and vital and it's very good for the economy. Corruption and greed running rampant unmonitored and unchecked is not.

The people have the right to demand the government to fire Wall Street advisers who were among the responsible parties for the 2008 collapse.

It's not a leftist thing to demand Wall Street get a leash so they don't run roughshod over America and leave a trail behind them of devastated people, who are both Democrats and Republicans.

This is what OWS about and I'm pissed off that the media is focusing on bad behaviour of some of the protestors and I'm pissed off at those protestors for being so stupid and destroying the message of the cause they claim to uphold.
Click to expand...

You realize of course you are basically just spouting leftist talking points don't you? Fact is more and more streeters are ALREADY being held accountable....I pointed this out to you 30 pages ago or so..

Prison Time for Inside Trading Is Climbing - WSJ.com

As are banks, who are settling

(take your pick)
Chase Bank pays settlement - Google Search

So basically it's alot of hot air.

And as for the economy being stable for 45 years after Glass Steagall, :lol: well you might want to check either your history or your definition of stable.
 
TXgolfer said:
You realize of course you are basically just spouting leftist talking points don't you? Fact is more and more streeters are ALREADY being held accountable....I pointed this out to you 30 pages ago or so..

Prison Time for Inside Trading Is Climbing - WSJ.com

As are banks, who are settling

(take your pick)
Chase Bank pays settlement - Google Search

So basically it's alot of hot air.

And as for the economy being stable for 45 years after Glass Steagall, :lol: well you might want to check either your history or your definition of stable.
Click to expand...

Checking it out, checking it out...Hey, I agree with her! How about that? Woot!
 
TXgolfer said:
You realize of course you are basically just spouting leftist talking points don't you? Fact is more and more streeters are ALREADY being held accountable....I pointed this out to you 30 pages ago or so..

Prison Time for Inside Trading Is Climbing - WSJ.com

As are banks, who are settling

(take your pick)
Chase Bank pays settlement - Google Search

So basically it's alot of hot air.

And as for the economy being stable for 45 years after Glass Steagall, :lol: well you might want to check either your history or your definition of stable.
Click to expand...

What's basically a lot of hot air?
 
DeafCaroline said:
When Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat, she was breaking the law...sometimes civil disobedience is necessary when the laws are unjust....
Click to expand...
Yes, but she didn't do violence to any people or property. She didn't scream and cuss at people. She didn't act ugly to anyone.
 
Reba said:
Yes, but she didn't do violence to any people or property. She didn't scream and cuss at people. She didn't act ugly to anyone.
Click to expand...

She probably would have given up her seat if she was a conservative. ;)
 
DeafCaroline said:
It shouldn't have happened in the first place. And it will happen again if changes are not made.
Click to expand...

How would Glass Steagall have prevented Bear Stearns or Lehman? Both were pure investment cos
 
Eyewitness Account by George Hewes:
It was now evening, and I immediately dressed myself in the costume of an Indian, equipped with a small hatchet, which I and my associates denominated the tomahawk, with which, and a club, after having painted my face and hands with coal dust in the shop of a blacksmith, I repaired to Griffin's wharf, where the ships lay that contained the tea. When I first appeared in the street after being thus disguised, I fell in with many who were dressed, equipped and painted as I was, and who fell in with me and marched in order to the place of our destination.

When we arrived at the wharf, there were three of our number who assumed an authority to direct our operations, to which we readily submitted. They divided us into three parties, for the purpose of boarding the three ships which contained the tea at the same time. The name of him who commanded the division to which I was assigned was Leonard Pitt. The names of the other commanders I never knew.

We were immediately ordered by the respective commanders to board all the ships at the same time, which we promptly obeyed. The commander of the division to which I belonged, as soon as we were on board the ship appointed me boatswain, and ordered me to go to the captain and demand of him the keys to the hatches and a dozen candles. I made the demand accordingly, and the captain promptly replied, and delivered the articles; but requested me at the same time to do no damage to the ship or rigging.

We then were ordered by our commander to open the hatches and take out all the chests of tea and throw them overboard, and we immediately proceeded to execute his orders, first cutting and splitting the chests with our tomahawks, so as thoroughly to expose them to the effects of the water.

In about three hours from the time we went on board, we had thus broken and thrown overboard every tea chest to be found in the ship, while those in the other ships were disposing of the tea in the same way, at the same time. We were surrounded bv British armed ships, but no attempt was made to resist us.

We then quietly retired to our several places of residence, without having any conversation with each other, or taking any measures to discover who were our associates; nor do I recollect of our having had the knowledge of the name of a single individual concerned in that affair, except that of Leonard Pitt, the commander of my division, whom I have mentioned. There appeared to be an understanding that each individual should volunteer his services, keep his own secret, and risk the consequence for himself. No disorder took place during that transaction, and it was observed at that time that the stillest night ensued that Boston had enjoyed for many months.
Click to expand...
Boston Tea Party Historical Society
 
Reba said:
Yes, but she didn't do violence to any people or property. She didn't scream and cuss at people. She didn't act ugly to anyone.
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct. I remember reading an article a couple of years ago that the bus Rosa Parks rode in was found in a junk yard. I think there was talk about renovating it and putting it in one of the Smithsonian museums.
 
DeafCaroline said:
The Boston Tea Party comes to mind. They didn't just throw tea overboard - they went nuts and burned down British citizens and Loyalists' homes and businesses, they raped British women and stole their slaves or killed them. It was far far worse than what's OWS doing now.
Click to expand...
Can you give your source, please?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top